Nusance Barking

carlikai

I think barking problems are so common and annoying to neighbors that don't have dogs that people want to just do something drastic. There are the Ecollars. I have never tried them. But dogs are smart and figure out ways around. Nothing happened when my Molly was barking in the crate. The instructor suggested a Kong filled with food but it doesn't work. Molly barked for an hour waiting to start her class time.

sunyata

You need to find out WHY she is barking. Depending on why she is barking will determine the method you will need to use to correct the action. (And by correct, I mean use positive reinforcement to reinforce the WANTED behaviour while gently discouraging the unwanted behaviour.)

And I really think those e-collars are a BAD idea, especially with Kais, who can be incredibly sensitive.

tjbart17

Was Molly at the class with other dogs running around while she was in a crate? I can't imagine any puppy liking that or being able to calm down in a crate when there's fun to be had. Even Koda would start crying. I usually tie him to my treat bag that I wear around my waist and don't crate him in a training class.

If it was at home, then I'd just keep trying until you find something Molly really likes. I use bully sticks. The dogs go nuts over them.

shibamistress

An e-collar on a Kai? *shudder* That's horrible! Except I think it's horrible in general for dogs, but esp. for sensitive dogs! I tend to suspect a lot of barking problems are management problems: why is the dog outside all the time? Why not bring them in? Is the dog bored? Lonely? Frustrated? Those sort of things need to be looked at first. My best friend has a "problem barker" GSD (a breed that loves to bark) and she fixed it pretty easily: she just doesn't leave him outside alone for so long now. He's happier in the house with her, and when he goes outside, she often goes with him and plays with him. Problem solved.

I also think, in the crate, it's a matter of finding something the dog likes, and not rewarding them by letting them out when they cry. My little man cries something terrible in his crate if he's ready to go out or if he's alone (he hates being alone). We're in the process of trying to figure out what he likes so he can learn to self-soothe as we were saying on the Kai Ken FB page. Kong...no. Bully stick....maybe. That's as far as we are so far, but I've learned my boy, at least, doesn't cry for nothing--he's either thirsty or hungry or needs to go pee, except he will cry when he's alone.

But that's being in the crate, not nuisance barking. So I'm not sure if the original question is about barking while outside or barking in the crate, or?

Here's another thread about barking: http://www.nihonken.org/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/7308/concerned-about-barking/#Item_17

jellyfish

I agree, non-dog people find barking to be very annoying. I've even had a crazy little asian man come up to Toki and film him barking, like he was building a case against him or something. Of course, this man's presence was understandably weird to Toki (people don't normally come up to my dog and film him), so the man was provoking my dog. Of course, the man is an idiot and didn't realize he was pissing off my dog by being a weird little asshole. Regardless, I knew what was the cause of the barking (Toki alert barks, he is protective). The solution was to advert Toki's attention seeing as there was nothing I could do about my idiotic neighbor. Moral of the story, figure out why your pup barks and then you can find a solution.

Dogs bark for a lot of reasons, but sometimes it is better to correct the underlying reason than the actual barking. You have to realize that they don't have as many forms of communication as we do, so to inhibit the bark is to inhibit one form of communication. Though I seriously doubt there is some big, underlying psychological reason, but still, something to think about.

If she was barking because she wants attention, one solution would be to ignore her until she is quiet. She is learning that barking gets her what she wants, even if it means barking for an hour. Granted, she is a puppy and should be running around and stuff, so I couldn't imagine her being calm in a crate either
If the crate is the issue, (barking to get out), make the crate a happy place, and maybe she needs to learn to trust that you will let her out to play. Leave her in for 30 seconds and back out, in and out, ect... Peanut butter will work miracles

I hope this is advice you haven't already heard or tried, and if so, maybe someone else can give better advice! ))

*edit*... oh, and NO e-collar. EVER.

Heidi

So, just for clarification, Molly was in the crate for an hour at the training place waiting her turn? Why were you guys in this situation? This isn't a loaded question, I'm just curious. Does she bark at other times?

CarabooA

Gasp! There's a Kai Ken FB page.... looking into it right now... lol

Saydee is our resident barker of ghosts. She most certainly thinks there is something to bark at. I don't know if she does it when we are gone, but when I'm home if I at least go look out the window and say, "what?" it pacifies her.

In the car though? I don't know what advice to give for that. We've opted to leave her at home when we go places we know will make her anxious enough to bark incessantly.

BradA1878

I'm a dog person and I HATE barking. Go figure.

ayk

I don't mind the deep-chested serious barking, but I dislike the higher pitched, from the mouth, barking.

BradA1878

@carlikai - I'm wondering, how do you greet your dogs when you get home? Also, when you leave them, do you tell the goodbye? If so, how do you do it?

jellyfish

ha! one of the million reasons I got an akita was for the fact that they DON'T bark. Its the yappy little chihuahuas that piss me off.

@carlikai if she is barking to alert you of something, which my akita does....very, very often.... try acknowledging the thing in question. I used to reprimand him with a firm no or yell at him, (and admittingly, a few pillows were gently thrown at him) which, don't do that to a barking dog when he is just trying to communicate with you, it'll stress him out more, and more barking will ensue, or pillows will turn into playthings. Now I know all I have to do is calmly walk into the room and say thank you in a happy voice, hug him, and he stops because he did his job: alerting me to something in question. Thats it. I stop the barking with hugs and love

Also, I've felt that continued socialization has helped Toki understand that some things don't need to be alerted upon.

carlikai

Ok, to fill in the blanks. Molly isn't a puppy, she's 6 and is crate trained and is fine in them. But I really don't need them for her anymore. But this was an odd situation where I had back to back agility classes, first with my puppy and second class was Molly. It was too hot to leave her in the car so I had to bring her into class and put her into a crate to wait her turn. She of course wanted to come out and get in the action. I ended up splitting up the classes on different days mostly because I was half dead! But it's kind of like going to dog shows and the dogs are in crates and the dogs are showing. The dogs seem to be ok with dogs running around them. Molly had no experience doing that. How do you get your dogs to be in a crate at a show? Genji is young and he wouldn't be any better. At home I don't leave my dogs outside alone so it's not a problem for me, but I know a lot of dog owners that their dogs bark a lot out in the yard and it's pain in the butt.

carlikai

Oh, and brad asked about leaving. I don't have a problem leaving them alone in the house...surprisingly even the puppy, genji is already fine being left alone not in a crate. I don't say anything I just leave. It's the crate problem tho. He's was better out of the crate than in it, and he's not destructive and doesn't have accidents...he's 9 months. I think that's pretty good. But it does disadvantage me when I need a crate. I'm just getting him to accepting it driving in the car...he's in the crate and usually quiets down after a short time. So barking is only a problem for my older dog when I have her in the car and she can see me going into a store...she does shut up once she can't see me so it's not terrible. So it's situational. So far the puppy doesn't bark much....except in the crate.

BradA1878

@carlikai - No I mean, how do you greet them? Do you say goodbye to them and hello to them when you come and go (from the car, house, room, whatever)?

I know it seems like a strange question, but I'm curious and I don't want to give any input as to the point of the question as I don't want it to change your response.

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sandrat888

@carlikai
What about covering the crate, so she does not see all the stimulus around her. It can be annoying to have a barking dog in the crate when you are working with the other dog such as at shows/trials or classes.

sar17

Personally I would have a friend come to the class with me. As you are doing agility with your other dog I'd have my friend do some crate training with Molly. Because you won't have the time when your working with your other dog.

I would have Molly go in her crate on command and out of her crate on command with lots of treats and praise so she's having fun as well. And have her do lots of other tricks to for treats and praise.(this person would really need to give her 100% of there attention during your agility class. Treat it just like a training session) Then slowly increase her time in the crate, until she goes in quietly on command and waits until being released. It would defiantly take several sessions, but over time you could teach her to just wait on a blanket or bed calmly.

Rather then just putting her in the crate because you have to go do agility with your other dog, think of giving her a job. It could simply just be to settle, she could learn to lie on her side and relax, eventually fall asleep when you tell her.

The hardest part is finding someone to help you, but you just need to put the commitment into it. Same as teaching a puppy a new trick. They can learn but some tricks just take longer and a bit more work . . .

That is what I would do although there are many different approaches!

Good luck with her!

lindsayt

The thing with shows and trials is that those dogs do this every weekend in some cases, on top of several hours of classes a week. They get used to it really quickly. I agree with covering the crate in class if seeing the other dogs work is too much stimulous. Consider Crate Games to help the dog learn that crating is fun. What a great suggestion to have a friend help do this during class!

carlikai

Those are good ideas. I haven't tried covering the crate. And taking a friend to attend to Molly while working with the other dog is a good idea too and I think I know just the person. Thanks

As to Brads question about how do I come in or leave....I definitely leave without fanfair and coming in is pretty low key too. I already know making a big fuss over them on arriving or leaving is never a good idea so I have never done that. Neither of them has separation anxiety at home when I come and go I think because I come and go in and out the door constantly when just doing household duties that they don't pay attention to me until I call them to go out. So they can't actually tell if I'm in the garage or I've driven away to the store. That's how I get a new dog to not be worried if I leave the house. However, if I put the young dog in the crate and then left he would be screaming when I left and an hour later would still be screaming. Oddly, I have an outdoor kennel. So if I put him in the kennel and leave him he's quiet. So I at least have options. I just wish the crate was better received. He gets all his food in there and he jumps right in to eat but if I lock the door it's completely different. So I just don't lock him in the crate anymore. If I have to leave him longer he goes in the outdoor kennel. I'm headed up north next week and I don't have an outdoor kennel and I want to make sure he's safe if I leave him so I'd really like to crate him. So i'll be working on that. I'll put it in the patio window so he can see out for starters. And I'll try frozen kongs too. The older dog isn't a problem there.

BradA1878

hmm... Ok, that's good. Yea, exuberant greetings is a great way to create separation anxiety. I'm glad you are aware of that. )

Here is a strange idea, but it could work...

Take a novel object that is usually not around the dogs (something the dogs have never interacted with), like an umbrella, a doll, or a teapot. Something different and strange to the dogs. When you are home or in your car put the object out somewhere obvious (in your car you could hang it from the mirror). Place the object where the dogs can see it (but not interact with it).

Do this every time you are with them, but don't make a big deal out of. Also make sure you put it somewhere odd, like at the top of something that usually doesn't have anything on it.

The object is to create a novel environmental change.

Then, be sure to remove the object when you leave. Put it somewhere out of sight. Do this even in your car.

After a week or so, or until (you think) your dogs do not even notice the object anymore... Once you reach that point, switch it and place the object out when you leave the car or house and remove it when you are home.

This may stop the barking by associating an environmental change with the wanted behavior. I have seen this done for separation anxiety and it actually worked great.

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sar17

@brada1878 thats such a interesting idea for separation anxiety!

lizzysilvertongue

What about the barkers that bark the entire time your gone? Separation anxiety? I know brad suggested a thing for that. That's my biggest fear with getting a dog is one that barks the whole time I am gone. I had a next door neighbor (in a duplex) whose dogs barked ALL the time. They were smaller and he never did anything when he was home and they were always kennelled 3 dogs and one was usually out 2 were up. I had another ex-friend that had dog with separation anxiety but i think it was cause he was in a wheel chair and was always home.

But one of my 2 biggest fears is the dog that barks while i am gone and a resource guarder(i got attacked by a resource guarder^^ wheelchair guys dog) I worked over there doing the home health alternative thing, and had many issues with that dog.