Nervous growling when non-owner walks down the hall or enters room, tips?

edited November 2012 in Behavior & Training
This is a fearful/nervousness behavior related question. So Ren gets nervous and growls whenever she hears a non-cezieg walking up the stairs, through the hallway, and when pretty much anyone comes into my room. I've been working on getting her comfortable with everyone else by having them give her treats when they come in, bringing her along on Taco Bell runs (5mins away in the car) when it's more than just myself in the car to get her used to being around other people + car rides, and having other family members (brother mostly) take her for short walks when she has to use the bathroom, yet she's still growling whenever my brother and others come into the room. She does stop whenever any petting is initiated.

She'll drop off her bed (on top of her crate next to the window) and go under my desk if someone enters the room, however she'll let whoever comes in pet her on the neck and take a treat. She'll do it to my mom when Ren's followed me into the kitchen, but then she'll timidly give my mom a paw when asked and eat the treat given to her.

ex. Brother walks into room and growling starts, he'll sit down about 5 feet away and growling continues, I'll tell her it's OK while he slowly and calmly reaches over to gently pet her neck, she'll continue growling without any aggressive behavior (lip curl, etc) until he connects with her neck fur, then growling stops and she assumes a less nervous "feels ok, but not sure if want" demeanor.

Important to note that she's never bit anyone or shown any sort of aggressiveness or lip curling/teeth showing, and she'll behave like this for anyone that is not me (even when the only interactions with that person have been me holding her and letting them pet her + them giving her treats whenever they come in). She's been gaining confidence at the dog park, doesn't bark at anyone there anymore, this is all only at home.

Anyone have any suggestions on progressively overcoming this?
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Comments

  • If your brother ignores her, or turns around so his back to her, will she come sniff his legs? Is she curious? or would she rather just not have to deal with them?
  • You can have a treat jar outside your door and have people grab a treat and put it on the floor for Ren. Maybe she'll start associating visitors with treats. It's just an idea I thought about on the spot (it's not backed up by anything... lol). I totally agree with having people ignore her when they come in. Walk in, ignore her, and drop a treat. Could work.

  • With Mirra when she was a pup, we had to have people completely ignore her (which oddly is extremely hard for most people to do apparently...) and especially NO eye contact. Any eye contact would set her off badly. If they were able to do that, she would relax much faster. Also, her first pets from others always had to be on her chest/lower neck area and when SHE deemed that it was ok, not them, lol.
    Now that she's 6 she does soooo much better. If someone is coming into the house I have her go to her "safe" place (her bed in our room) and she can come out when she is quiet. If she starts making noise, she has to go lay back down in her bed - it's a matter of minutes anymore before she comes out and wants to be social. I'm so proud of her. She was a little more extreme with her reactions than other dogs, I think....her progress has been years in the making, and again - I'm so proud of her :o) Ren will get better too and probably much faster than Mirra!!!
    I like @Hinata23's idea - if they could do that without expecting her to take it from them "lay it on the floor" that may help too!
    So, with Mirra what worked with people coming into our house (we had a little different routine for outside introductions):
    1. Remove her to her safe place where she could decompress (lay down, quiet down - get used to the sounds of another person in the house) at one point we even put a baby gate up for her in our door so she could see what was going on - other dogs getting loves etc... without feeling "her" space being encroached on....but she had to be quiet and laying down before we'd let her come out to check
    2. Let her make all the introductory moves with no eye contact from person
    3. Person must completely ignore

    :o)
  • These are both great ideas @Hinata23 and @CarabooA, and pretty much the opposite of what I've been doing with her. Lately I've had the feeling that it was becoming too much of a "big deal" when people would come in the room and she would growl. Since instinctively, like you said, the first thing everyone wants to pet her and make her feel at ease, it would turn into a more intense experience from her perspective. I'm going to give it a shot and tell everyone to not look at her when they come in and keep a treat jar closer to my door so as soon as people come in they can grab one and just lay it down by her, instead of in a bag on my desk where it's a good minute before she gets a treat, that way she associates someone walking in with the treat instead of someone hanging around, more of an immediate event to be positive about.

    @WrylyBrindle If we're in public she'll sniff people to check them out if they're not looking at her. At home she just wants to hang out under my desk in "her" spot or on her dog bed, not interested in smelling anyone or checking them out, other than to keep an eye on them.
  • @cezieg I would say that people should toss it her way and not lay it down beside her. Usually to do that, a person would get close and bend down towards her which might make her think that they are going to touch her and set her off.

    How old is she now? Koda went through kind've a similar phase at around 9 mos. old. I basically told people to completely ignore him. Eye contact set him off. He had a big issue with that. The difference is he wasn't guarding his safe spot, which sounds like that's what Ren is doing. She's basically resource guarding your room. Mei did this with my parent's back bedroom. That's where her crate is.
  • edited November 2012
    @tjbart17 that's EXACTLY it pretty much. Her crate is here next to my desk with her bed on top, so basically wherever she is in this area she'll move to underneath my desk, where she has the best view of things but still is in her "den". Ren is just past 8 months so it's the same time frame as Koda. Did ignoring her and tossing a treat work well with Koda?
  • Tara's suggestion of tossing the treat her way is what i had in mind!
  • @cezieg I didn't have people toss treats. He did it outside of the house mostly, like at the park. I just asked people not to look at him and let him calm down. He didn't growl, but would go off barking and acting all wiley Kai. He got over it within a couple of months.

    With Mei, it was different. We had to keep strangers out of her room. It was just too much for her. We moved the crate into the living room for a little while, with the rule that no person touch her crate. This helped.
  • edited November 2012
    @cezieg - I would block the desk so she can't hide under it, and then I would have anyone that enter completely ignore her (you included). I'd also suggest (similar to Tara's suggestion) people drop a treat in the the room w/o looking at her. Drop it in her general direction so she can see it, she doesn't have to eat it when they are in the room, she can eat it after they leave. Eventually she will associate people being in the room with the treat.

    The reason for blocking the desk...

    If she is guarding the desk, her behavior will only increase the more valuable the desk gets to her. The more she can hide under it, the more important that space is, and so the more valuable it is, and so the more she will guard it.

    ----
  • Brad already gave you the same suggestion I was going to give. The more you fuss about it the worse it will get. Anyone who comes into my place is told to just ignore the dogs. When they come to you on their own, you can pet them at that time.
  • ChoCho used to hide under Jeff's desk when we first got her. We had to stuff things under the desk and block it, like brad said. She then only went in her crate when she was scared.
  • I was also thinking not to bend over by her with the treat but to just put it in the room where she can get to it without feeling pressure in any way from the visitor. Ditto that the bending over and closeness could be considered threatening to her. :o)
  • another tactic is to Treat-n-Retreat- in which you toss the treat past her, that breaks the tension and she looks away to get the treat and then may *choose* to re-engage. It puts the ball more in her court if she wants to solicit any further interaction. She's not stuck watching, or unsure what to do or what will happen, she can make it happen herself.
  • It may help if you "let" strangers in. Come into a room first with people following or open the door for them. That way she's that you are there and happy to have them. I know it doesn't work with your brother walking her right now but if she associates you happy for him to come ot may just condition her to like him as well. Of coursehaving everyone once their in drop a test so it is more positive conditioning. My family's dog is feral or was she's pretty domesticated now and we would share her depending in schedules between my house and my parents. She loves all my roommates and when I wasn't there would go crash their rooms to be with people but if I was home and they came in with their key versus me letting them in she would freak and resource guard me as she thought they were unwelcome in my territory versus if I let them in she would be an attention whore. Just a thought
  • edited November 2012
    @brada1878 @WrylyBrindle @CarabooA @Hinata23 All good advice! I'm going to have to stuff the bottom of my "desk" with her food and pretty much all the spare anything I have in my room (my "desk" is a fold up table) and change the orientation of her crate. Which makes sense, since now it's her go-to spot for concealment. Then whenever someones coming into my room I'll just ask them to wait outside the door for a second so I can walk in with them, so Ren will associate them with me instead of just a "stranger" walking in on their own like you mentioned @cdenney .

    @sjp051993 Good advice on letting her go to them for pets, the whole "reaching" may be inducing a lot of her stress. She didn't like me reaching when she first arrived, but a hand on the floor close to her with a treat was acceptable.

    Thank you very much for the advice guys, I really appreciate it :)
  • I still have to walk people in my house. If you came over, I would meet you outside with Koda and walk in together. You would never guess because he would be super friendly to you but if I don't he would flip on you. It's his rule and I respect it.
  • Kai can be funny about some of the strangest things. For example Marsha came tonight to pick up her puppy. Everyone started freaking out when she arrived. Marsha came in a pretty much ignored everyone. e sat down on the floor and before you know it they were all up in her face wanting pets. Even Ritsu, who ran upstairs at first, was eagerly asking for pets andf attention.
  • edited November 2012
    This is ChoCho the first 48 hours we had her. We has to drag her out so she could potty. Silly girl! Kind of crazy how much she's improved!

    IMG_2047

    IMG_2043

    IMG_2041

  • @tjbart17 Well that makes him a good guard dog for sure, protecting his mama :) Good to know, I have a feeling Ren will be similar. Since even when we're not at home she's very much "hey, hey, there's some strange person walking up to me!" until I engage the person in conversation, and then she takes that as a cue to investigate and drop her guard a little bit.

    @sjp051993 One already left?! Was Marsha enchanted by the pup? Good for Ritsu, I'm definitely using that tactic!

    @Hinata23 Aww ChoCho! Ren was squeezing into every small opening she could, even trying to squeeze in where the cats were spying on her from. She really has improved you guys have done a great job! That blue collar looks snazzy on her too.
  • That collar was lost by USPS... along with Brad's Tagg tracker. Still mad about it! lol
  • All good advice here! This forum is great and such a wealth of knowledge/experience!!!

    The suggestions I was going to give have already been given lol but I will add when the person is in your room and she approaches to check them out make sure they know not to move too quickly or get to outwardly excited that she approached. If she approaches to check them out they need to understand that her approaching does not mean total acceptance, it just means she is curious or maybe wants a pet or treat. If they do too much too fast when she approaches she may retreat and then might take longer the next time with the next person. It might be a slow process but she'll get there :)
  • Yes the little boy let last night. Marsha fell in love as soon as she saw him.
  • Puppy is awesome.... Loves everyone... Gives kisses and very Velcro .... Played hard all day today and was exhausted to the point of curling up and staying up front instead of following me.anymore. I tucked him into his crate, about 5pm and he has been sleeping since. It is now 2 am and he is still passed out....

    Met Ritsu and the rest of the puppys and everyone got their share of lovin... Ritsu was actually pushing against me.for attention by the time I left..they all were.

    I didn't get to read all the posts but what I read I agree.with. Not sure if anyone mentioned this but when I get a new nervous dog I like to leave a leash on and let them drag it around so I never have to grab at their collar while they are settling in. I can pick up the end of the leash and get them to follow me or do whatever without stressing them more.
    Sorry for.any typos... Dislike this smart phone
  • @kaikenone That's awesome :) Keep us posted on him as he grows up please! It'll be neat to hear how Ren's little half brother is doing.
    I did that with the leash when I first got her home and she was extremely nervous being in a new home. Now she'll follow me just about anywhere on her own, with the exception being when she's had enough of the other dogs at the dog park and has picked a "safe bench" to hold up at until we leave lol.
  • How is she doing with the growling? Is anything helping?
  • edited November 2012
    @Kuma123 She still does the growling, but since I've told everyone to not make eye contact and just ignore her she's been better and not so growly. I have to remind my parents every time they enter the room, because it's apparently against the laws of nature for everyone to not give her attention lol. She's shown some signs of starting to improve. For example my dad and I had a conversation with him about 6 feet from her (still under the desk since I need more stuff to block it) and she settled down after growling for a few seconds upon his entering. Normally she'd be continuously growling. She also took a nap in the middle of my room's floor with the door wide open, which she hasn't done while people are in the house. Nothing incredibly major, but we just started. Small steps, thanks for asking :)
  • small steps is how it goes- you formed a strategy that she is accepting, now is where you build consistency and she realizes that she can get comfortable. stick with it right here and dont try to move forward. Think of it ilike you are helping her climb a staircase, and she was afraid to cross a step, so you made space for her to step up and sure enough she has got two feet up there tentatively. When she's got all 4 metaphoric paws on the step (celebrate!), let her get comfortable (relax) at that threshold, then show her the next step and invite her up again. With our anxious dogs, we want to see continuous improvement and keep the wheel turning, but the pressure to keep improving all in a row sinks us when they arent ready yet. They need time to do their part and to think and relax. So good work! now see what happens, see what she decides...

    Yay for Ren!! :)
  • Sounds great and @WrylyBrindle said it best :) No rush!!!

    Yay, Ren! Sounds like great progress!

    Isn't it weirdly funny how hard it is for people to ignore a dog??? We have a neighbor who no matter what I've told her will every single time bend over, look Mirra in the eye and start talking to her!!! And every time Mirra baarrrrrks and then the neighbor will stand up and say, there's just something about me, I guess!!! lol - Well YEAH!!!

    Great job you guys!
  • Yay, Ren! Small steps make the biggest difference! @WrylyBrindle said it all perfectly :) Congratulations on the improvements!
  • I had to come back to this thread cause Ren's uncle was a complete ass yesterday growling at random people and dogs as we walked around a park. Showed me that he has a little of this in him too. He definitely acts up to protect his puppy. God forbid anyone comes near Mika sometimes.

    Did you get the desk blocked yet?
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