Hokkaido Association of North America (HANA)
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    This is a bit premature, but I wanted to get this underway since I have been making plans more earnestly towards the addition of another Nihon Ken breed. I'm curious to see if there would be more interest in the United States for Hokkaido if there was actually a breeder here and I want this to be a resource specifically for the Hokkaido so we can list pedigrees of breeding dogs in the US, keep pictures of them, health information as it comes along, etc.

    www.hokkaidoken.blogspot.com

    I wish I had web page design skills, but blogger will have to suffice for now :) Let me know if any of you have suggestions for content. I realize it needs more info and photos, and I will definately link to Shigeru's way more comprehensive site once it's up.

    If there are any current Hokkaido owners who would like to contribute any info or photos, I will happily include them. I'm really excited for the dogs to arrive.
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
    Post edited by lindsayt at 2013-07-31 14:49:15
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3975
    Don't know much about the breed, but I know I would be excited of there was a Hokka breeder in the US (even if I wouldn't be able to add another dog for awhile). Is this what I think it is Lindsay, are you considering becoming a Hokka breeder?
    image
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4534
    Well... Can I just say... WOOOOHOOOOO!!!! :-D

    It is no secret that one day I plan to add a Hokkaido to my mix. I think they are fascinating dogs and a perfect fit for me. The sole Hokkaido that I have met absolutely captured my heart. (And Bella's!)

    So... do you have dogs arriving, or just plans to have dogs arriving? :)
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    I'm also interested in this. I grew up with a ainu and maybe one of these days I wouldn't mind adding one to my pack.

    I really like the breed for its ability to hunt so its been on the top of my list for future hunting dogs.
    Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    Considering breeding absolutely, but I want to get everything planned out before hand. Sooo, I'm in the process of looking with a lot of help :) and gathering info still. BUT, I really want to form a good network of people who are interested in owning/co-owning, importing additional dogs, etc.

    I don't have all the resources or desire to establish my own independent program which would require a few dozen dogs at least. I do have my few Shibas and they are a priority, so I think it would be easier to only have 1-2 Hokkas and have a network of cooperative homes with one or two that are kept intact for the possibility of breeding. It just seems that it would be easier and best for the dogs (current and future) to share the load that way, then everybody has an investment in their wellfare and a say in the future of the breed in the states, etc.

    This is part of why Shiba people have become so exclusive, and I don't want that for any of the other NK. I understand the reasoning for having a huge kennel of your own dogs in order to have enough to breed from without sharing, but I also never want to be in a situation where I have so many dogs that they would have to be kenneled and not get enough training/mom time.

    The point of bringing more over here is to share the breed, so anybody who is interested, I would really like to start brainstorming. I have asked for a breeding pair, but I would be very willing to send one to a cooperative home on a co-ownership.
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    Posts: 2211
    Ooohh...I smell a Lindsay/Gen partnership. C'mon Gen, you can convince the wife it's to help establish the breed in the U.S.!

    Jesse
    Jesse Pelayo

  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3975
    That is a pretty cool idea, and that whole co-owner was something that Tikaani's breeder had done. Technically she had no more than 10-15 dogs in her care at one time, but had at least 50 dogs participating in her breeding program through co-ownership and sort of cycled the dogs between her and the co-owners.

    I'd imagine though that this sort of thing would be difficult if the co-owned dogs lived more than a few states away. Though with modern technology and AI, that seems to make it easier.
    image
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4534
    I would definitely be interested... A little more slightly down the road (like 2-3 years), though. However, since I do live on the opposite coast, a co-ownership could get a little tricky...

    Lindsay, you have my facebook info and email address, right? Shoot me a message with some info whenever you get a chance. :)
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3012
    I love the Hokkaido was so excited to see the male Hokkaido in Shigeru's post..

    I've really fallen in love with the Nihon ken breed Saya is such a great shiba inu personality and temperament wise.

    I wouldn't mind owning a Hokkaido one day he/she would have a great life with my 16acres to explore with me and the dogs and I'd feed him/her raw of coarse.

    I love doing agility with Saya for fun so we'd most likely do that too..

    My mom would like to purchase this one land the owner is offering too much, but if things work out and he lowers who knows we'd have 26 acres of land if we can do it.

    Once I get done with my education I wouldn't mind paying for the 10acres and one day building a nice house in the woods and stuff like that it'd be by a creek and lots of deer in the area I could hunt during the hunting season one deer could feed a couple of dogs for a good while.

    I'd like to get education in art and learn Japanese.

    My dog trainer I took Saya and Bella to her son took Japanese in a college in the state so I could get the info from her and see how he liked the class..

    Sorry to ramble a bit.. =\

    I've been working on Saya retrieving and she loves it need to get some duck or quail scents and work on her tracking Saya loves following animal scents.

    I like your idea and wouldn't mind helping out in some way. I live in Lafayette Indiana so that's pretty far from where you live, but who knows..

    Could always do a road trip or fly! lol

    I'd try to make it to Madison WI meet up every August so the dog would be used to road trips. =)
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • @lindsayt - Lindsay, that's an awesome goal. I wish you the best! Unfortunely, I'm not interested in owning a Hokkaido but I do fancy and admire them. I'd love to help out and contribute what I can, when I can. Given the property (larger area of space), I won't mind being the "transition" house for imported & co-owned Hokkaido Ken.


    @CrimsonO2 - Jesse, he only has 5, he has room for 1 more dog!


    @shishiinu - Gen, you're allowed 6 dogs, get a Hokkaido. =p.
    www.airreyalis.com | Shikoku Ken image

    Shoushuu | Kotomi | Shuran | Ayla | Kukku | Maika | Asra

    Other Members of The Airreyalis Pack - Lynxiene (Belgian Malinois) | Keno & Missy (Alaskan Klee Kai)
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    Awesome work Lindsay!
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    Thanks Corina! What an offer.

    It sounds like there are a few people who have some interest, so I am encouraged to continue with my plans.

    That would be way cool if Gen took a Hokkaido to hunt.
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    Well the way things are looking I mybe taking in another dog in the near future. Our rotti sammi maybe going to Japan to live with my Dad. He fell in love with her when he came to visit and its been none stop about how much he wants Sammi.

    6 Dogs!! Holy crap Corina, if I had that many I dont know how I'm going to go back home to Japan. But yes most likely I will either add another Kishu, Kai, or a Ainu. Maybe Ainu since every one and their tia has a Kai. Good Lord, why do I have so many damn hobbies and interests. I still need to get back to racing and do some car work. My beat partner is even talking me into racing motorcycles again.

    @ Jesse: dude you kidd'n me, I'm trying to get my family established. I think the wifey would center punch me with my .45 if I bring home another dog! I had to do crazy things like bring home flowers and buy gifts just to get Koyuki.

    Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
  • AraksAraks
    Posts: 802
    I would be interested in a co-ownership probably like 5-8 years from now. It really depends when I'm done with schooling, but yes, I'd love to help. The Ainu have been fascinating me for a while now.
  • Gen - 6 dogs, tis' only 1 more then 5 -grins-. Ah...-sighs-...you're right, it's too soon after having just imported Koyuki...well then I suppose there isn't any hurry? Say give it another 1 or 2 years? Start buttering up the wife now! LOL.
    www.airreyalis.com | Shikoku Ken image

    Shoushuu | Kotomi | Shuran | Ayla | Kukku | Maika | Asra

    Other Members of The Airreyalis Pack - Lynxiene (Belgian Malinois) | Keno & Missy (Alaskan Klee Kai)
  • okironokiron
    Posts: 3431
    Wow im really surprised at how many people would be interested. The hokkas didnt seem to have that many fans. I cant keep a dog for your program, that ship has sailed in our house but if theres anything else i can help with, let me know. The hokkas are still my favorite nihon ken.
    -Rina
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    Thanks everybody, I'll post updates as things progress.
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • SangmortSangmort
    Posts: 5510
    Good luck Lindsay! It'll be exciting to see how the breed can develop here. ~
  • HeidiHeidi
    Posts: 3379
    I'm open to the idea of a hokka, too, but like many others, I have to wait a few years. I'm going back to school this fall for a 2-year diploma and then I'm going to work and do the post-diploma bachelor's part time. Which means I'll be busy! But I'm thinking that when we're a dual-income family, I'd like to get an acreage and do that whole thing, and really take my time with that bachelor's because my goal is to not go into debt at all.
    Rakka 落下(Shikoku Ken), Sosuke 宗介 (Kai Ken), Hester, Stephanie, and Batgirl(cats)
    image
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2081
    Wow, this is awesome! I am defiantly interested in helping out once I get back to Oregon and in a better situation than I am now. I love all the Nihon Ken but there is so little information on the Hokkaido I don't know too much about them. Doing what I can to help sounds like a neat thing to do.
    image
  • I just checked our your blog, very cool! I know next to nothing about Hokkaido-ken, but hope to learn more!
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4534
    Bumping this for @WhoBitMe

    Just curious to see if you had gotten any additional info, Lindsay. I know you have been super busy with the Shiba mob. :)
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • Oh darn I live in Denmark, so I guess I wouldn't be much help in an american club. But the Hokkaido has also captured my interest and I might want one down the road...
    Tanja
    ... all the way from hillbilly Denmark ;)
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    Shiba mob, lol. I've been showing all weekend (Farrah got a major, first points), but I intended to comment here at some point. I'm still interested in the breed and in importing a breeding pair as a group effort, preferably with people in my area at first.
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4534
    Congrats to Farrah! :) She is such a fluff.

    Sounds good. Even though I am on the other coast, let me know what I can do to help!
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1920
    Finally mustering courage to post here...

    @lindsayt - I am very interested in the Hokkaido and would love to be involved with this. I am also located in Washington, a couple hours south of you if I'm remembering correctly where you're located.
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2081
    Is southern Oregon in your area? I'm four hours from Portland, two from California's border.
    image
  • ShikokuSpiritShikokuSpirit
    Posts: 2226
    Looks like you might be off to a good start Miss Lindsay!
    www.airreyalis.com | Shikoku Ken image

    Shoushuu | Kotomi | Shuran | Ayla | Kukku | Maika | Asra

    Other Members of The Airreyalis Pack - Lynxiene (Belgian Malinois) | Keno & Missy (Alaskan Klee Kai)
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 3663
    I finally got around to reading about your plans, Lindsay, and I'm thrilled! I hope to add another NK in a few years, and I've been wondering what might be a good match for us. I love this idea--it might let someone like me, who can't really go all out and be a regular breeder, still contribute to the breed through co-ownership and keeping a dog intact for breeding purposes. And I've got to admit the Hokkas are really appealing.....



    Lisa, Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akita), and Leo (Kai Ken)
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    Thanks Casey and Corina, she is way fluffy right now and she was in great condition and represented her breeding well:

    http://2naughtyshibas.blogspot.com/2011/06/farrahs-big-day-show-win-brag.html

    @WhoBitMe

    I am in Puyallup. If you are seriously interested in the breed and importing, let's meet up sometime and go over some things face to face. My email is on my profile.

    As they say, fools rush in, so I am not eager to embark on a path without first getting as much information as possible. I'm getting more involved with Shibas, so that is still my primary focus.
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    I have a question about resources...

    Say you get the breeding pair, and either one can't be bred or doesn't jive with your home/other dogs - what is in place for alternative living situations for the dog? I would assume that the homes with hokkaido can be count on one hand, if that, right?

    It's a huge undertaking for sure - I think we've seen with people who import that expecting it to be perfect doesn't always pan out despite the planning and money spent.
    volunteers4paws.wordpress.com
    shibas, beagles & more!
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    There are homes who would jump at the chance. I'm getting about one inquiry every 2 weeks about the breed from potential pet owners. But, my Shibas are my top priority so I won't do anything further until there is a better support system of enthusiasts in place and more information about the breed from current owners. To reiterate, Shibas are my top priority.
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    So - as I understand it - Shibas are your top priority?
    volunteers4paws.wordpress.com
    shibas, beagles & more!
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    You got it!
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    Back to breeding pairs that don't work out and placements, that's a good question. All of this stuff has to be planned out and lots of time and money need to go into it. Jiving with my dogs is a really big concern for me and I am not sure it is worth it in the end.
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
    Post edited by lindsayt at 2011-06-13 13:49:00
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    Like the Mino shiba - my ego would love to own one of those - but i'm not willing to travel back and forth to Japan to help the preservation effort there, so I'm best left admiring from afar.

    If someone were to import Hokkaidos, I imagine the breeding plans would require either a ton of traveling or a lot of AI - right?
    Is either solution ultimately good for the breed?
    volunteers4paws.wordpress.com
    shibas, beagles & more!
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3012
    I'm interested in owning a Hokkaido one day, but for now I'm working with Saya with her recall, training and stuff.

    Coarse being in the Midwest it's far from you.

    I'd love to have a Hokkaido and maybe work him or her with tracking.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
    Post edited by Saya at 2013-07-31 15:54:27
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4534
    As for health problems with the breeding pair and/or them not working out, I would love to share my home with a Hokkaido, breeding stock or not. So, there is always a home available for one or two here with me.

    As for the AI... As far as I know, AI does not carry any health risks that are not already present with natural insemination. Granted, I have not done a lot of research on the matter... @brada1878 - I am sure you have done more research than most anyone here, any insight?
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    There are no real health issues with doing a basic vaginal AI, especially if it's done by a reproductive vet. Actually, there are probably fewer associated health risks with a vaginal AI than there are with a natural breeding.

    I think there are small risks associated with a Transcervical AI as it requires a special tool and is more invasive, but again, if it's done by a reproductive specialist those risks should not be a factor.

    With a Surgical AI there are all the typical risks associated with any other surgery where the dog needs to be sedated for the procedure.

    AIs can be expensive when done by a reproductive specialist (Loa's surgical AI cost us around $3k when it was all said and done), so that has to be factored into the plan.

    As for the question of using AIs in a preservation, and the effects it could have on the breed, if you have solid 6+ generation pedigree data and health data on both the sire and dam and have the ability to touch (meet in person) both the male and female, the risks are pretty minimal IMHO. But, if you remove any one of those things (being able to meet both dogs in person and/or pedigree info) the risk of the matching being a "bad mix" rises.

    Also, if the 2 dogs can't interact with each other you don't get a feel for if the female agrees with you that the male is a good mate. I think that we should mos def listen to our females.

    Having written that, when you're talking about a breed like the Hokka, where there are less than 20 representatives in all of North America, I think you have to allow some wiggle room on the matings. I mean, with so few dogs there is a good chance your female may not like any one the males in this country. LOL ... And, if you have accurate pedigree data, health tests, and can make judgements on the dog's temperaments (in person), then I think the risks are mitigated.

    You know, dogs have good days and bad days too, so it is not outside the scope of possibility to assume a female is just "not in the mood" at the time you try to do a natural breeding (if she is rejecting the male)... Add to that the very small window of time you have to actually do a breeding... It's kinda hard, IMHO, to take the female's opinion as 100% accurate all the time.

    An example - Luytiy and Masha - Masha was WAY into Luytiy the first breeding (litter) and wanted to murder him the second time we tried to breed them (for her second litter)... so, in that case, we just did a basic vaginal AI to minimize the stress for both the dogs involved (no need to create a learned aggressive response). Clearly Masha felt Luytiy was a GREAT match the first time around... what happened the next time? Did she change her mind? ...

    Anyway, I think you have to consider all of the data, including what the female tells us, and how rare the breed is, when we are picking males and females for a matting.

    ----
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4534
    Good info, Brad. Thanks!
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    Just a question about putting the dogs together during the heat... Do you keep them together all the time and let the dogs decide when to do it, or do you keep the dogs separate until the calendar or tests indicate that it's time?
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    Oh, I just remembered something. There's another reason why natural breedings are ideal. Sometimes the male can have the sperm but not have the proper equipment to deliver it. I know one case where the male could not tie a female but could still impregnate her. That little piece of knowledge doesn't come out through AI.

    IMO, the safest compromise if you're going to use AI is to use a male or female that has already produced naturally.
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1920
    For me, any Hokkaido I would bring into my home would remain with me whether s/he ended up working out for breeding or not. :)

    All the information provided on AI is very interesting. Thanks to all those who posted about it.
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    @ayk - For a natural breeding we typically monitor the color of the female's discharge, when it is a light honey color we start to let them interact and see if the female is receptive. We do that a few times a day until she is.

    If there are multiple males we will put the males and female together earlier than that and see which male she flirts with more. That would be the male we breed her to. Obviously we'd only put her with males we want her to breed with.

    ----
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    @ayk - Well, they have to preform a tie during collection (with the collection receptacle) so how would you not notice if the dog didn't have the needed equipment?

    Also, if you are using a reproductive specialist (which I recommend), they check the quality and the motility of the dog's semen and so you learn more than you would in a natural breeding.

    I'm not pushing for doing AIso, I just think its a bit of a stretch to say they are unhealthy or dangerous.

    ----
    Post edited by BradA1878 at 2011-06-13 22:44:26
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    @brada1878 - I guess I still have a visual of the old way that they collected semen.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    Ok, if anybody wants to get in on the Hokkaido importing, now is the time to do it :)

    A long overdue webpage (not quite complete): http://www.hokkaidoken.com
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
    Post edited by lindsayt at 2013-07-31 14:52:23
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3012
    Love the webpage! :D

    Hope things go well. I'll try donate when I can.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4534
    *raises hand* ME!

    Ugh, but the timing is all wrong. But if there is anything that I can do to help facilitate getting a breeding pair in the US, let me know!
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    Donations towards importing are always appreciated, but not expected :)
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • jeffnkazukojeffnkazuko
    Posts: 289
    Yume definitely gets a lot of looks in Canada, but we haven't decided on whether we will spay her or not as of yet. Hokkaido's have a very high prey drive, but in Canada it is illegal to hunt deer or bear with a dog and even if it were I am not sure many people would. She has gone after deer several times and she has no fear of other animals whatsoever. It is incredible to see, but a bit scary as an owner as I am sure she would get her butt kicked by some bigger dogs or worse an elk, cougar or bear.
  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    she will take them on hhehee :) yea, i would be scared too...

    Love the webpage!
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    @jeffnkazuko - Well, spaying her will not change any of that. You need to keep her intact, there are so few of them in North America. That's my unsolicited opinion... ;)
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    Haha well I may as well spill the beans now that Lindsay has :P I'm importing a working Hokkaido in the coming Spring/Summer, whenever a litter from the working kennel is available. The mating pair are used for bear and hog hunting when not being bred.
    Right now, to mesh well with the other 5 imports that are in the works, it'll be a female.

    Those that know me on Facebook may have heard of my plans to purchase several dozen acres of rural land in southern Washington state (hour north of Portland). I'm going to be hunting wild boar with my pup in the same method that Shigeru does (active stalking, not baiting), and am looking at options for the setting up of a hog pen/fenced off acre or two to keep hogs for the purpose of training pups for tracking them. Lindsay and I have also talked about holding annual club meets on the future property for a weekend picnic, and testing 'tude on actual hogs + possible training workshops since @lindsayt is Ms. Flyball Obedience Trainer Extraordinaire. Lots of cool possibilities!

    Part of the use for that land will be to start a kennel for a line of working/hunting Hokkaido, as the only one left in Japan is going to be shutting down in the near future, and it'd be a shame to allow the working bloodline to die out. The female will be a sister to the one that Brad is importing, and it looks good that three unrelated males will be imported over the next 6 months, so there will be a small, relatively diverse group of working blood Hokka to use as a base.

    All support for HANA and the breeding program are very much appreciated, if you know people with Hokka who might be interested then definitely send them to this thread.

    @jeffnkazuko I'm not sure if it went through, but check your inbox for a pm. It's not 100% solid right now whether I get a male or a female (still need to hear back from Shigeru on his perspective), but if a male is imported, and you're not opposed to it, then I think Yume would be a great breeding candidate! You're always welcome to bring Hana down to Washington state to do some hunting too ;)
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
    Post edited by cezieg at 2013-07-31 22:49:10
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2081
    @jeffnkazuko I agree with Brad. Spaying will do absolutely nothing to curb her prey drive, and since she is a member of a rare breed, she should remain intact of she is healthy and does not have any nasty health problems. BUT that decision should be yours, since you own her.


    This looks interesting, and promising! I'd like to learn more about it!

    And, well, I might be able to contribute somehow. :D
    image
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    That would be awesome :)


    For donations:
    http://www.hokkaidoken.com/Members_and_Contacts.html
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • AraksAraks
    Posts: 802
    I've been really liking the Hokkas recently. :) Now this is a club I could get on board with :D
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1920
    @cezieg That is awesome that you'll be getting a Hokkaido! And that's also great that you're thinking about moving to Washington. I think you should do it (totally biased). Washington is great. And since I'm in Washington (just the other side of the river from Portland in the 'Couve) it gives me a totally reasonable distance to drive to stalk your Hokka puppy once you get him/her. And I could even bring Meitou (my Hokka). Where abouts are you thinking about getting some land?
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
    Post edited by WhoBitMe at 2013-08-01 00:17:59
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    @WhoBitMe Oh they're actually solid plans to move to Portland, Gladstone to be exact, with the move date being March 1st! We'll be neighbors! My sister and her husband moved to Vancouver, WA this past February, and I've always wanted to get back out the West coast (Born in Walnut Creek, CA). The land is going to be somewhere within 45mins-1hour of Portland, so that'll mean 45mins'ish north of Vancouver. The mainstay of my growing personal business is going to be beekeeping education, so it has to be near the city. I can't wait! We'll have to get the pups together for a hike :)

    I'm going to be housemates with a friend who has a Shiba girl, so if all the pups are together it'll be a pack of 2 Hokka, 1 Kai, and 1 Shiba. There'll be plenty jealous glances from all the other dog owners!
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
  • I am not thinking of spaying Yume to change her temperament, but if we aren't going to breed her maybe it would be better to do it. The vet sad it can rely reduce the possibility of some cancers ect..
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3975
    I am not thinking of spaying Yume to change her temperament, but if we aren't going to breed her maybe it would be better to do it. The vet sad it can rely reduce the possibility of some cancers ect..


    You may want to try searching some of the threads on the forum about spaying/neutering, pretty informative stuff. There are some studies that came out showing that while spaying can prevent some cancers, it may also increase others especially when done before the dog has had time to mature.

    Being that there are other Hokka coming in, you may want to consider breeding her once before spaying her. Waiting until the age she's allowed to be bred (2yrs old) before spaying her could be better for her than spaying her at a younger age. The big cancer that vets bring up is mammary/breast cancer, but to be honest with all the intact bitches in breeding programs or as pets in this country, cases seem to not pop up as much as vets would like you to think.
    image
  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    Yahoooooo @cezeig!!! That's going to be so neat! :D I can't wait to hear all about it!
    Michelle, with Kai girls Kona and Kimber
    DSC_6037_NEW_banner
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3012
    So glad things are sounding good. :)

    I might have to someday make trip to Washington to meet them. Boar pen be so cool too.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • thegelathegela
    Posts: 350
    Yay!! So excited this is happening!!!
    Hana - 2yr (10-22-11)/ F / Kai Ken / shy, sweet, cuddly, silly, loves the woods
    Yezo - 6mo (07-11-13) / M / Hokkaido / foodie, monster, lovebug, loves winter
    -------------------
    instagram - gelabot
    hana yezo's tumblr - http://hanayezo.tumblr.com
    my tumblr - http://angelaan.tumblr.com
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4534
    @cezeig - WOOHOOO!!!! :-D I kind of had an idea, but it is awesome to have it solidified! I am so excited that this is happening. Lindsay and I talked a couple of years ago about me importing a Hokka female, but then things with Nola happened.

    I am really hoping that in a couple of years I will be at a place (financially as well as health wise with my two Shibas) to be able to import and help establish the NA population. But in the meantime, I can absolutely live vicariously through you guys. :)

    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • TrzcinaTrzcina
    Posts: 331
    This is so cool! I'm glad this is working out, and it's great that there's an effort to preserve the working line Hokkas. I'm excited to read more about this as it happens!

    As far as helping out... well... I will definitely say that nothing is impossible, and though now isn't the best time for me to help out with much, there's no telling what the future will hold.
  • @calia
    We won't spay her right away, but it would be very difficult to breed her at the moment. I figure by the time she is old enough we will both be working and think it wod be very hard to find the time to take of the pups ect.. I am not ruling it out, but too much trouble at the moment.
  • TrzcinaTrzcina
    Posts: 331
    @jeffnkazuko I've known people who worked full-time and lived alone and managed to raise a single litter without too much trouble, so especially with a rare breed--it's worth considering. Definitely not a "oh you have to do this!" but just a "it's apparently not as impossible as it sounds." That said... I've never done it, so I don't know the logistics of making it work or if it's horribly stressful and so on.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    @jeffnkazuko

    It's about an 11 hour from you to me. I am set up for puppies and would be happy to whelp and raise the litter for you. Just a thought. She is a really beautiful dog...
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • omgtainomgtain
    Posts: 240
    Oh, hey! I live right outside of Puyallup (in Graham). :)
    Maybe I'll have to get in on this with you guys, hah. Sounds exciting.
    image

    Tain, Nare the GSD/Husky, and Tavi the Kaigirl!
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    That's cool @omgtain

    I'm in Puyallup, so if you want to go in on this, it would be super convenient (no pressure tho).
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    @jeffnkazuko That'd be the nice part of having an official club set up, the pups only need 8 weeks. So if, after thinking about it, you could cope with her staying with a kennel (@lindsayt for example) then you would have none of the responsibility while still being an important contributor :)

    @Saya Saya would love the boar I think!
    @Sunyata Virginia is a little far, but if you ever hit the PacNW it's ideal mountain biking ;) Even more reason to come visit!
    @omgtain That'd be cool to have regular meet ups. How's your pup doing? Last I remember he was 14 weeks and super attached I think, but never saw his picture! Btw, you should really really really consider a Hokkaido, because otherwise you and @lindsayt won't be friends (no pressure)
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    @cezieg Sounds like a awesome plan, I would definitely make the drive to put my kishus to the test. One thing to consider though, make sure you check your local laws on transporting feral hogs.

    I had a bay pen in my yard not too long ago and the only legal way to transport hogs is buy purchasing them from a Eurasian boar farm. I'm not sure what the feral hog population is like in Washington but I believe it is illegal to trap and transport live feral hogs on most of the west coast states (I believe it's under federal title 14 code).

    If you need help with pen designed and reputable Eurasian board breeders I have a long list of info on that I can share.

    But big congrats on getting closer to your goal on getting a working Ainu.
    Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
    Post edited by shishiinu at 2013-08-02 01:56:25
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    Sorry I think it's more under title 9.
    Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
  • omgtainomgtain
    Posts: 240
    @cezieg Hey there. :) Yeah its been quite awhile ha.. Arkane (the pup you're referring to) was put to sleep last month. ): He had quite a bit of health problems and was constantly sick, and upon x-raying and such had an enlarged heart & some other 'funny' looking things.. Bad days started to over run the good ones and although it was a tough decision it was probably the best we could do..

    Anyways, heres our youtube for video spam & Dogster for photo spam!
    http://www.youtube.com/user/Tainzel
    http://www.dogster.com/dogs/1278377

    However we have a very exciting addition coming in a few months, so the Hokk will have to wait a bit. :P

    @lindsayt
    If I can do anything to help I will definitely try. :D Not really sure what needs to be helped with though haha.

    Question though, do you herd at ewe-topia?
    image

    Tain, Nare the GSD/Husky, and Tavi the Kaigirl!
  • KriszKrisz
    Posts: 150
    I like HANA, congrats!!!

    I love Hokkaidos and my goal: this great breed be more popular in US and -of course- here in Europe!

    So...I'm thinking about a donation... sending a male pup to you from my future litter :-)
    I would be very happy if one of my pups could go to some shows in US :-)

    Pedigree of the pup will be:
    http://www.hokkaido-pedigree.com/testmating.php?dam=63246&sire=63423


    xoxo
    Itadaki Kennels - www.hokkaido-ken.eu
  • We have a 7 month old male Hokkaido that we got from Shigeru about 3 months ago.

    I email a little bit with Shigeru the night before our appointment to get our little guy nutered and we decided to put it on hold and see if he could be a possible stud for the Hana project. My husband and I feel strongly about preserving them and getting the breed more recognized here in the US. We live in Orange County, CA and we get a lot of people stopping to meet him.
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    Holy cow, share working Hokka plans and get things among four people in the works to import some and suddenly...

    image

    :D

    @Krisz Wow that is incredibly generous of you! I've followed what you've done with Seta since you first posted that you had made plans to have her imported. She's a beautiful girl and will certainly make some great puppies with a strong young sire like Maru :)
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
    Post edited by cezieg at 2013-08-02 01:43:44
  • I am cheerfully donating art/drawing services and an auction print to the HANA Project :) for the long term prospect of keeping a pup for HANA in several years. (My dog spots are full, and it's okay for startup ease if HANA is a PNW thing and can easily cooperate... Casey and I will kick off HANA East with a pair when it makes sense to do so.)

    I think that we can learn from the Shikoku about how to present HANA. Not as a few breeders selling pet puppies, but as a unified breeding Project with goals, bylaws and a plan. You (the curious pet owner) dont go to HANA to find a rare, beautiful pet, you go to HANA to be part of the project- warts and all. Expectations must be set for members/owners/keepers- and it can be done from the Get-Go with HANA. We can do it right.

    I certainly don;t know everything, BUT I do see how certain terms are misunderstood by the Public and Perpetuated by the breed community- esp in shikoku, but applies to ALL NK. For example "Rare" means what we talked about in the "realities of breeding medium NK" thread- but until they are educated- and the NK Forum is the only place for that now, but I would encourgae a certain tone on any breeder websites (or not having breeder websites- its ALL HANA until certain project goals have been met)- what people hear has nothing to do with quality or linebreeding or relative severity of health compromises in a limited gene pool. what they hear and want to believe is 'Nobody else I know has one, exotic'. Likewise "Primitive" - what it really means in terms of temperament and training, is not what people 'hear' ('I always wanted a wolf!'). 'Natural Treasure of Japan' sounds like the dogs are specially cared for and protected- but people need to expect the truth about conditions for foundation dogs, as Shigeru explained and that depth of health knowledge is not going to go very far back for now. The HANA project needs time and generations to do its work before we can break off and behave like other breeders, if we ever do.

    If HANA and its cooperating community present themselves more like a scientific preservation PROJECT (kinda like a guide dog breeding project) and not as a loose group of breeders you can just buy a rare puppy from because you want something cool and have the money to buy it, I think a lot of what shikoku has taught us will not be wasted!

    HANA would avoid misconceptions by the Public and Dog People and serve the breed and the diversity effort best if it is formed and maintained more like a well-run non-profit breeding project and less like a chamber of commerce uniting and promoting individual breeders.

    I also think it makes sense to be clear about the role of Project dog-keepers - ie: Expect if you participate in HANA to keep your HANA Hokkaido intact for x time, then do xyz tests, and travel for breeding, etc. Additionally, is an owner able to work, show, train for performance events etc.? People have to give back. In the NW, you guys may be able to have meets and shows, whereas someone in the east may need to expect to go to NIPPO Classic if they have a Project pup. I, for one, cannot promise to do lots of shows or flyball, that stuff just ins';t here- but I can train a pup for hiking and winter sports like joring, etc. and report on what they do when we find bear tracks :)
    Post edited by WrylyBrindle at 2013-08-02 08:31:15
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1671
    @wrybindle I really like these ideas and concepts of PR and open record keeping :

    "present themselves more like a scientific preservation PROJECT (kinda like a guide dog breeding project)"

    just a quick fyi, guide dog projects are usually are set up as a non profit and the dogs are registered in the name of the organization. Only when the dogs have been trained, tested and a final decision is made to the next level is the dog either moved on to a person in need or back to the family that trained it with ownership turned over.

    Logistically these type of issues have to be worked out if things are loosely following that plan of action. Certainly it's doable : )

    Since I am between some of you here on the east coast I can supply a lot of help in the training and acclimation dept. given I have access to many resources.

    I think the east coast has a lot to offer too in solid foundation building : )

    Snf


  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4534
    @WrylyBrindle - Excellent post and really great concrete ideas for HANA. I am really excited to see this project get off the ground and am so glad that so many people are interested.

    I know that I was intrigued by the Hokkaido shortly after I joined the forum (back in 2008!). And then I got even more intrigued when I met one. It has been in the back of my mind that I wanted to import one for several years, and I was just about ready to start getting really serious about it when Nola got sick and drained my "Hokkaido Fund" and then some.

    @cezieg - We had initially planned a west coast MTB vacation for this year, but due to some unexpected financial expenses have put it on hold until next Summer/Fall. :)
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • WRT the guide dog project comment, I mean mostly the way people understand that its a breeding project with a purpose, and while you *can* approach one about getting a 'dropout' dog as a pet, everyone knows that the main purpose is NOT to produce pets for people and the breeding (and training and service) goals come first. Maybe HANA does own all the dogs it imports- that's deeper than I can talk about, not being an organizer.

    But for interested owners, the questionnaire to the HANA Project- distinct from to the bitch-owner/breeder- might ask different/additional questions than is typical of pet/show breeders. Those desiring a neutered pet hokkaido should expect retired dogs, for example. And all of whatever is set up needs to be done with an eye toward goals and stages- it's no "No, you can never have a pet hokka pup"- it's in Gen3 (or whatever) we can more freely pethome some. The details are for more experienced people than me to work out. But I think perception control will be helpful- people need to know 'Getting involved in a Rare breed means if you expect two generations of hip scores before you feel secure about buying a healthy puppy, then keep an eye on us till we get to that point and come back!" Work in Progress.

    I think we need to speak openly and frankly on our Forum too about what it really, truly means for a non-kennel/nonbreeder to keep an intact dog for a preservation project. (and we can learn from the Chinook project- they do this too. On their club site you can look up who has the stud dogs?) Esp with all the distance involved- I am learning as I go about what it means to the breed that I keep Matsu intact, for example. I can't just walk him over to Brad's house in Colorado (from Vermont) for a date with a girl on any given wednesday.

    It's not just about pack cohesion and male behaviors, there is also how to connect with bitch owners looking for a good male when he's old enough, (assuming he is a good candidate with qualities to pass on), what to learn about testing him for things later (he's only 10 months old ATM) and what is customary in travel and fees, and how to keep dogs safe and make breeding enjoyable for them. It's being available when the bitch is in season, for a few days. I think this stuff should be shared so people know what the possibilities are before they just agree to it, and before they neuter rare dogs. I regret spaying Juno, but that's where I was at that time- I didnt know as much as I felt I needed to know to consider breeding her realistically. Didnt know Id get Matsu, or what good candidate males were in my region, etc. This is all fixable stuff with education and expectation setting.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    Thank you @wrylybrindle and SnF, and a huge thanks to @krisz for such an amazingly generous offer. I really appreciate Chrys' points, and am trying as we speak to incorporate some of this on the webpage. I really really like the direction you are going with your ideas, and I agree that is the "tone" I would like to establish from the beginning. I really co-owning, and I feel that getting non-profit status is the way to go.
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    If any current Hokkaido owners can send me pedigree info of their dogs, it would be appreciated :)
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • SangmortSangmort
    Posts: 5510
    I personally love where you guys are going with this, and I think you have a great group of people to truly help you succeed. Going to just +1,000,000 everything Chrys @WrylyBrindle said as it echos my thoughts to a T.

    If there is anything I can do to help you all get off the ground and get going, let me know. :) ~
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    @WrylyBrindle Great post Chrys! I think you definitely covered a good majority of the intention, as well as brought up some good questions. I can only speak for myself, but as far as I know it's Brad and I focused on the kennel'ing, so if his Kai program is anything to go by then being "open source" is a major part of it. Completely up front with health issues, open & documented breedings, and non-existent stud fees until the breed is established (even after, reasonable, non-inhibiting fees are acceptable imo). The idea being to make the breed approachable, while, at the very least, offsetting costs for members involved with breeding.

    Instead it's altruism, community, and dog health/functionality as the immediate focus, while maintaining the various coat "flavors". I was supposed to have a club charter draft done tonight, but completely forgot about the monthly beekeeper association meeting, so I've been gone from 7am until about 30mins ago :|

    @StaticNfuzz Yup. This is a project for those interested in the breed through to those interested in breeding. Although it certainly won't be quite "scientific", to be honest. As Brad was discussing with us earlier, the more selective and restrictive the breeding, the more restrictive the gene pool becomes. The main priority in working/hunting breeding is that the dog is healthy, fit, and has the the ability to do it's job. Regardless though, the side effect of breeding is that more than one puppy is produced. So they'll need homes, even if they aren't good hunters. But, there will certainly be plans made for proper genetic distancing, coat color retention (so as not to eliminate coat types), and "fixing" health issues that show. Thanks so much for offering your help btw! By the looks of it, the main group of people will be on the West Coast, so East Coast assistance is a huge boon!

    @Sangmort 82 collars and tags please *snap snap* :P
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
  • We have a Japanese pedigree but I am guessing I will need to get that in English? ;)
  • AraksAraks
    Posts: 802
    I agree 100% with you @WrylyBrindle. What you've said is what I've thought a preservation effort should be, and it looks like this is all moving in the right direction. I think ideas like this should be used in the Shikoku preservation effort.

    In a few years when I'm graduated and settled down I'd like to import and co-own as well. Until then, I'm a pretty good crocheter (mostly NK themed things) and I could crochet or needle felt Hokkaido dolls/toys that could be raffled or auctioned off as fundraising for the importing if you guys want.

    This is all so exciting! :D
    Post edited by Araks at 2013-08-03 02:19:28
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    @Araks That would be fantastic! We've been discussing things we could make for a HANA raffle that would help us with the import costs and such (it's really expensive haha). Osy may do collars, I can do paracord leashes/bracelets/collars, some crochet/needle felt would be great to go along! :D
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3012
    I love your ideas WrylyBrindle. :)

    @Araks also great idea I love crochet type things and needle felt dolls/toys.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    To raise money, I'm willing to donate a hunt or two for a auction. The hunt can be an animal of choice and I can furnish most all the equipment for the successful winner as long as they have a legal ca hunting license and appropriate tags which I can help them get.
    Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    If Hana has a logo, I can get it printed up on mousepads, key chains and the sort.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

    DSCF0686IMG_0940 - Version 2DSCF0714IMG_1151

    10443860_10202258803333634_2133731540_n
  • HeidiHeidi
    Posts: 3379
    The logo should have a flower and a dog.
    Rakka 落下(Shikoku Ken), Sosuke 宗介 (Kai Ken), Hester, Stephanie, and Batgirl(cats)
    image
  • it will! I have been doing some research in preparation:

    "Hamanasu, the flower of northland, blooms on the coast of severe environment. It is certified as the flower of Hokkaido due to its rustic and wild dynamism and its vivid color of the flowers."

    http://en.visit-hokkaido.jp/hokkaido/hana-land/index.html

    "Rustic and Wild Dynamism" is the way to go!
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    To raise money, I'm willing to donate a hunt or two for a auction. The hunt can be an animal of choice and I can furnish most all the equipment for the successful winner as long as they have a legal ca hunting license and appropriate tags which I can help them get.


    That's awesome! I may end up spending more money on this auction than on the dogs, what with all of these great ideas haha.

    @WrylyBrindle Ooo super exciting! Can't wait to see it :D
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2081
    This is all looking pretty awesome! I'm usually quite skeptical of breed clubs, but this discussion is going in a direction that I like.

    How does one become a member? Has that been figured out yet, or is it still in the works? I'm in no rush, just curious.
    image
  • @Losech- I see that "?" dog... :) and I want to hear more...
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2081
    @WrylyBrindle Ehehehehehehe!

    That's what I meant by might be able to contribute somehow :D
    image
  • excellent!
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    Ooooooo, that's going to be so cool Chrys.

    @araks, @shishiinu @sjp051993 Thank you SOOO much for the generous offers. This really does help.

    @losech I do want to maintain a membership with small annual dues, and eventually there will be an application. I do want to have an official annual meeting, which would be (hopefully) a "fun day" event for all owners, and we can review the HANA Project yearly goals, conduct votes, brainstorm, and plan breedings/evaluate project dogs. It's a ways off. I listed some general benefits for members here:

    http://www.hokkaidoken.com/Members_and_Contacts.html

    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    This is all looking pretty awesome! I'm usually quite skeptical of breed clubs, but this discussion is going in a direction that I like.

    How does one become a member? Has that been figured out yet, or is it still in the works? I'm in no rush, just curious.


    image
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015

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