Obedience Training
Hey guys!
Was hoping you could provide some tips on training a puppy Shiba to tolerate being handled by the vet. During our last visit, our vet was trying to look at Ryu's teeth and he snapped back and bit him :( The vet suggested that we spend about 30 minutes a day playing "doctor" inspecting his paws, teeth, and rear end to get him used to it. I tried to hold Ryu still today to look at his teeth but he is getting so strong and always manages to wriggle free leaving several bite marks behind.
Any thing I could be doing to make this process easier on the both of us?
Comments
I think I learned this task in my 2nd week of obedience class. Basically, everytime he lets you touch him uncomfortably, you reward him, even if it's just for a second.
1. BEING HELD - Hold him close, if he wiggles keep on holding him until he stops, then say "OK" in a happy chipper voice, release and reward. When he gets a little used to it, try to hold him for longer periods of time.
2. TOUCH - Now, while he's standing, touch around everywhere like you are doing a physical check up, push more pressure on certrain areas etc, etc. When you're done, say "OK", release and reward.
3. PAWS - While he's standing, lift up each paw (one at a time!) and rub it and just take a look at it, after you're done with checking each paw, again say "OK", release and reward.
4. EARS - Touch his ears, rub his ears, take a look in his ears (all while standing without movement still) after you're done, say "OK", release and reward.
5. TEETH - Lift up each lip to look at the teeth, the first couple times just do it for a quick second, say "OK", release and reward. When he gets more used to the feeling of his lips being touched and lifted up, try doing it for like 5 seconds each time.
It takes a lot of time and effort for this. Trust me! I know! Ninja is VERY fearful of strangers, he used to not even get close, so going to the vet and having a stranger touch you all over was not pleasant for Ninja. He didn't bite, but he screamed and pooped like crazy! Also, have you noticed any signs of aggression or biting with any other strangers or people? Or just when he's being checked out at the vet?
Remember, when you first start, just make him tolerate something for a couple of seconds and release him and treat him. The more you do it and he gets used to it, try longer periods of time. If you try to make him do something for a longer period of time when you first start, he is going to try harder to get out of it and not like it at all. But if you do it quick in the beginning and you treat him, he'll think "wow, that isn't bad at all and I get a treat for it!"
I hope this helps! Good Luck!
That's a great plan, Romi! Definitely a much better plan that mine. Although I didn't intentionally mean for them to be so comfortable with my touch, but that's what happened.
Kurt says I have pets just to torture them, but here's what I did. Whenever my pets and I were cozy and cuddling, I would pet them...the bottoms of their feet, their ears, tail, bellies, etc. The torturing part...I turn their ears over, pull their tails, wrestle. Obviously, the cats were easier - the body slam, throwing them up in the air and catching them, wheelbarrow, everything, all in the name of play. Mika makes funny faces when I pet her snout, so I keep at that, I grab the dog's teeth, tickle their paws.
I still do it, cuz it makes me laugh, but none of the pets have any sort of touching problems with the vet. The cats love getting their bellies pet and they don't mind me touching their back paws. What Kurt can't figure out....why the pets love and cuddle with me so much. Sometimes I'll 'torture' them when they're not in the mood. They run, but come right back. LOL.
Romi has given you very good advice.
Also the petting sensitive areas like their feet and mouth when they are relaxed an snuggly with you us a great way to get them used to it. I actually massage Piggy and Motos mouths and feet. Piggy had sensitivities with her mouth when I got her and she has improved significantly and Moto had paw issues (I think he had his dew claws removed before I got him, tiny scars) and now he is pretty great with his paws.
Good luck.
These are all great things to do. However, even if you can poke and prod at Ryu without him caring, that might not transfer to the vet. There are a A LOT of Shibas out there that do not do well at the vet. Mine is one of them, and my friends have many that don't do well either. Even Shibas that were raised and socialized properly. Then again, a lot of dogs (not just Shibas) don't like being at the vet.
WOW! Thanks guys! I swear this discussion forum is like buying 10 dog training books summarized into a pamphlet!
I definitely have my work cut out for me. Thanks for all the tips - I hope it's not too late to start these exercises - he's already beginning to think that he's the Alpha in the house....
Romi: I haven't noticed any significant aggression other than the last visit to the vet. Which I thought was sort of strange because he was always fine before. Although, you can tell that he was scared and I guess now that he is a little older, that reaction was a result of his fearful state. But on a normal day to day basis, when we are out and about, he loves people to love on him and pet him. He has never tried to bite anyone or other dogs - he saves all of that for us :-)
But now that I'm on the subject of biting, I've noticed a new habit that he's forming. When we are playing together and he bites my fingers, I will put my arms behind my back and say "NO" firmly, the little bugger will bare his teeth, bark and kind of lunge at me trying to bite me... it's getting a little scary because I don't want him to think that's OK. I normally will get up at that point to show him that play time will end if he does that....has any of you experienced this? I guess I am just worried that this is not considered normal puppy biting but rather a sign of aggression that needs to be nipped in the bud....
oooooh. Thats not good at all. Basically I think from what you stated, you are not the leader in the pack, HE IS. You need to start doing excersises that makes him see that YOU'RE THE LEADER and HE'S THE FOLLOWER. So here are 2 things I think you should do ALWAYS:
1. NEVER LET HIM EAT BEFORE YOU. Anytime you feed him, make sure he see's you eat first. (Drink something, snack on something, whatever) and then tell him to sit, and give him his food. LEADERS of the pack ALWAYS EAT FIRST!
2. ENTERING/EXITING - Anytime you go out for a walk or go outside together, make him SIT to get the collar put on. Put on the collar and open the door. DO NOT LET HIM GO OUT FIRST. Open the door, you make him sit, YOU walk out first and then you say "COME" and let him out.
The point of these exercises are, you are the leader, he is the follower. If you do not want him to do something, he should not do it. He can only do something if you approve of it. EVERYTHING IS YOUR'S NOTHING IS HIS, he needs your permission for EVERYTHING. It seems as though he doesn't believe you when you are trying to correct him. So it is your job to be more assertive. There are a bunch of different techniques to do this. I use NILIF (Nothing In Life Is Free). It's exactly what it means. Don't give him anything until he does something to deserve it. This makes them gain a huge amount of respect for you. Also, you might want to use a different word other than "no" when you're playing. Like if im playing with my pups and after 30 mins play time is over I will say "ENOUGH". Because "NO" is when they do something they are not supposed to do but they already did it. "Enough" is when they are allowed to do something, but can only do it for a certain amount of time. And when they are thinking about something to do that they aren't supposed to do I say "AH AH" which is like a warning for them to not even think about it and they back off.
You should think of certain words for certain meanings. Like a lot of people use "DOWN" for the dog to lay down, but they also use that word to make the dog stop jumping up at them when they get home. So some dogs get confused and think that when you say "down" you are punishing them when you are in training session. I use "Down" to make them stop jumping and "LAY" or "SLEEP" to make them lay down.
YOU SHOULD ENROLL IN OBEDIENCE CLASSES! It has helped me a lot and very informative.
Hope this helps! STAND YOUR GROUND WOMAN!
edit: Also, as for the nipping at the vet. Maybe you should take him on a walk and exercise him a bit before taking him in, that way he has relieved some of that pent up energy and will be more relaxed at the vet.
Yea, that's pretty bad behavior. Again, Romi, terrific ideas.
Pam, what is the pitch of your voice when you say NO? I found that when I yell in a high pitch, the dogs start wagging their tails. I guess it's the same pitch as my play voice. Some dogs respond better to a lower, calm, firm No.
Keigo doesn't bite, but he's super mouthy. He wants my hand in his mouth. For what, I don't know because he doesn't bite down even a little!! What I've done is yelp, like another dog would if Keigo was too aggressive with them. Then I turn my back and refuse to pay attention to him at all. If he tries to face me, I'll keep turning in a circle (don't move around too much or Ryu might chase you). He caught on pretty quickly. The yelp is super loud and startles him.
P.S. I use the 'Down' if I want them to lay down and 'Off' if they are on furniture they aren't supposed to be on or if they are jumping. And when we're at the door to go out. I asked them to sit and when I'm ready, I use 'Let's Go' and step out first. That way I don't confuse it with 'Come' when they're away from me.
Also, Pam, do you play tug of war with Ryu? If so, I would stop. It's a very aggressive game for an already aggressive breed. I would also start showing your leadership in other ways. Claim Ryu's toys, food (by setting food on the ground and making Ryu wait before Ryu can eat), etc. And lastly, start watching Ryu behavior before an attack, so you can correct the behavior the second it starts. Some dogs stare intently, other's stop panting. their ears might perk up or they actually bare their teeth. When you see the signs, use your no command immediately. Actually, now that I think about it, keep a leash on Ryu at all times, even in the house. That way, you can correct the behavior by tugging on the leash.
Sorry, didn't mean to be so verbose.
Romi and Sujewel : THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE ADVICE!
I'm not embarrassed to admit that I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to training pups. This is our first dog as adults so we are open to all of the valuable advice we can get!!!
Romi: I've made a conscious attempt to eat something with Ryu watching before I set his food bowl down and I think that is partially why he isn't all that food aggressive. And I also would make him sit before we went for walks...HOWEVER, I never thought to make him sit while I walk out of the door first. He usually sits and then once i open the door, he beelines out through it. Last night, I started working with him on waiting for me to walk first and he is picking up on it pretty quickly. Last night, it took around 10 times for him to get what i wanted him to do and then today, only about 4 times! I'm sure with some work, he'll have it down soon. Thanks so much for this tip! It will really help decrease the chances of him running out the door without a leash on! Also, we are going to obedience classes (once a week) but we've only had the first class so far. He was pretty "vocal" last week so I'm hoping he will be more relaxed this week
Sujewel: The light bulb finally went off when you explained the difference between NO, OFF and DOWN. I'm sure we were confusing the heck out of him. Now we are practicing OFF because he constantly jumps on the couch when Tim and I sit down. It's difficult right now but I'm confident that he'll learn that we don't want him jumping on the couch unless he's invited. What a HUGE help you've been in that area! As for the tug of war, we played with him when he was very small but we stopped because we could tell he was getting aggressive. Now it's just fetch. Any other suggestions for games around the house that release a lot energy?
Again, thank you thank you thank you - I'm so excited to work with our little bundle of energy on these new exercises!
We've all been there and know exactly how you feel. I so wish I had a forum like this when Mika was a pup. We were kicked our of advanced obedience classes and told we weren't strong enough in our demenor to own an Akita.
Another suggestion...I would keep Ryu off the couch and bed. He's already playing for alpha dog. Dogs aren't allowed on our couch at all, but Kurt likes the dogs on the bed. I kick them off, but I have a hard time saying no to Kurt and he has a hard time saying no to the pups. LOL.
Mmmm, games. We do alot of running around in the house. We have a ton of space, so I chase the dogs around the pool table. Really the best way to release energy is the walk. Probably great for Ryu since the games with you at this age is promoting a good deal of aggression from him.
What about Kong-type toys????? The ones where he has to try to get treats out of the toys. Those are incredible...it can keep some dogs attention for a long, long time. Or, you can hide treats around the house and have him find it.
BTW, how is Ryu with other dogs? My HUGE mistake was not socializing Mika better when she was a pup. She played with an older lab, Willow, when she was young. Looking back, they were aggressive in their playing, which Willow encouraged. At two months old, Mika managed to hurt Willow. I don't know what happened, but Willow was limping for a week. Poor thing. Luckily, we did socialize Mika with kids at a young enough age. She's the neighborhood pet. They come RUNNING at her and she licks them all. They love it.
Thanks Sujewel!
As for the couch, I've been using the "off" command ALOT this weekend haha. Mostly, he thinks it's a game and jumps right back on but I keep standing my ground and will not let him on. Hopefully, when he respects us a little more in the future, we can invite him back up to snuggle
Thanks so much for your advice! We are going to class tomorrow and I hope he learns how to "play nice" with the other pupppies
Usually, older dogs put the puppy's in check. So if the puppy pushes the playing limit, the older dog will correct him. As for the dog park, when I would go, I would let me dogs do whatever they wanted, if they would get aggressive of course I would step in and address it. Portia is fixated on tiny dogs and like to pounce and paw at them, so I always have to be ready when there are small dogs in the park. I let her sniff and say "easy" to let her know she needs to play nice, once she attempts to paw at it or gets ready for a pounce, I say "Leave it" and move her to the other side of the park. Sometimes she likes to play rough with bigger dogs and chase them and they chase her, so I would see who the other dogs owner is and approach them and say "Is my dog playing too rough for your dog? I can calm her down or move her if you want" and they usually say "No, they're fine, they look like their having a lot of fun, thanks for asking!" But of course, if there's a scared dog hiding behind their owner and your dog is trying to pounce and play with it, thats kind of a sign to move him away regardless what the owner says, for the protection of the other dog, you don't want that dog to have a bad experience. The dog park is kind of a scary place, you have to be able to know you can trust your dog and you're taking the risk in trusting other dog owners to handle their dogs. The dog park I would always go to, I would go on Thursday Nights at 8:00pm every week, I knew most of the owners and their dogs who went at the same time and day as me, and it was a pretty good group of dogs that my dogs got along with and it wasn't that packed, usually around 10 dogs.
Also, on your walks you might want to do "Say Hello" which means he can go up to the other dog and sniff and greet him. And then when you think its time to stop or leave you can say "Leave it" once he leaves the dog alone, praise him and say "Lets Go" and go on with your walk. Ryu seems to be a very excited puppy and interested in everything. So, really when it comes to him playing with other dogs and greeting people, I think you need to be able to tell him when enough is enough. Because if he could, im sure he would lick or play forever.
But overall, it seems that you're doing a great job on training and discipline! Just stick to it and you'll be fine and Ryu will become a beautiful well-manned pooch!