Best Large Breed Dry Food?

sarahnya

I was talking to the vet today and she said that Akita need the correct balance of Calcium and phosphorus because they lay down a lot of bone quickly. I'm currently feeding my pup Purizon puppy which is a UK made food similar to Orijen.

The vet said I might be better getting a food targeted at large breeds, is this necessary and if so could anyone recommend a good grain free one available in the UK?

Thanks.

T_Dog

Is taste of the wild in the UK?

sarahnya

Yes it is !

I've actually bought a bag or Orijen for now, she's loving it but definitely isn't fussy in any case! It's expensive but I figured for the first year it's not too bad, more important her joints develop properly.

sarahnya

I've never known such a greedy dog, she'll bloody eat anything too unlike my Saluki who will literally starve herself if it isn't good enough.

T_Dog

I think some breeders may think orijen is to high in protein. But I can't remember for sure why. But its important that that don't get to heavy at a young age. Protein makes them gain weight. I can't remember if it was the protein or the calcium. Calcium can make them shoot up to fast in height. Orijen is a really good food, better then most. But taste of the wild I think it's the lamb in the light blue bag. That has the best ingredients. Cuz each flavor is a little different. Most people I have talked to recommend using adult food Not large breed foods for Akita. Lots of Akita owners and breeder recommend taste of the wild. If you can get it I would. Also I have been told that switching foods is hard on the digestive system. Even just switching flavors. You might also ask your breeder. They tend to know a lot more then a novice owner would think. I am feeding the amount recommended on the bag. Also I am giving glycol 3 chews to help joints and vitamin c if he eats his 2 cups he gets that cuz vitamin c tends to upset his tummy. A few treats as possible and besides bones and chew toys that's all he gets.

Calia

@T_Dog For some dogs, Orijen can be a bit too rich for them, causing stomach upset and the runs. Some feel that it's the high protein level (which is generally in the upper 30s or 40s, raw meat is in the 20s) and have found that the companies lower protein brand Acana is a better fit for their dog.

PoetikDragon

I highly recommend this site:

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/

zoomia

I've switched to raw in the past, oh, year or so ... but before that I fed TOTW. Only fed puppy food for a month or so, and then switched to the adult food because I had read that large breed dogs do better on it for the reasons stated above.

T_Dog

I thought about going raw. But I just don't feel I know enough about the nutritional values and I think it also might take a lot of time to prepare. Sometimes I just don't have time to fix dinner. I am thinking a good dog food will offer much better balance nutritional ingredients. I know my dogs would eat raw meat and bones. But don't feeding raw require you to some how get them to eat vegetables? To get the same nutritional levels as a good dog food.

zoomia

T-Dog, that's exactly what stopped me from doing it for so long. I was half and half for the longest time before jumping in whole hog (dog?). There's a ton of information out there about the proper ratios of bone to meat, etc., along with organ meats, which provide a lot of necessary vitamins and minerals. It all gets very confusing. If you want to start, there are various services that will deliver completely balanced raw meals. They can be extremely expensive. My experience, too, was that the akita wouldn't eat them because most include veggies/fruit, which she will not touch with a ten-foot pole, she hates raw organ meats, and she "prefers" whole chunks of stuff over ground food. She's a total PIA.

At this point, I don't really overthink it, and don't worry about each meal being balanced--and more about overall balance for the week or so. The bulk of the akita's diet is whole turkey necks, which have a good phosphorus calcium ratio, and I supplement with eggs and once a week or so, cooked liver/heart/kidney. She has a ready access of bones too. I am going to try green tripe soon, but I have a feeling that she won't like them. She also used to love sardines, which led me to order a case from a co-op that I am a part of. Sadly, she does not like this batch, though the pug loves them. (So do I...) Also, the dogs get most of the table scraps too. I do try to mix it up regularly, because variety really does make a difference. But it's hard with little miss picky.

Keep in mind that it's a process of discovery too, because YMMV with each dog. The akita is EXTREMELY picky. The pug will eat anything. I can trust the akita with whole chicken and turkey necks because she doesn't inhale her food. Everything the pug gets needs to be ground up because he will choke himself trying to inhale food. Also, some dogs do better on more carbs and some on fewer. A lot of modern dog breeds have more copies of the amylase gene, which enables starch digestion, but spitz breeds tend to have very few. The akita truly does better with few carbs, while the pug needs more. The akita gets no vegetables, just organ meats, while the pug gets some. But I am very casual with it all at this point and I feel like they're both healthier than they were on kibble.

In terms of time--it takes a lot of time to figure out (and be comfortable with) how to do it. Once you have a good sense of it and have figured out how to source the food, it doesn't take long at all. A lot of people will spend a couple of hours mixing and portioning out food for the freezer and then they're done for a good amount of time.

Sorry for this long post, but if you are interested, it might be worth digging in and seeing if there are any raw co-ops in your area. If so, that can be a great resource, and help ease some of the hesitation. Many will offer frozen packs that are balanced (have bone and organ meats ground in).

I have personally also found that it doesn't that much more than feeding a good quality kibble.

zoomia

TheYeti

I think raw diets are definitely a good thing.

For us we are pretty busy and preparing our own raw would make time even more tight than it is already. The main reason we don't do raw however is for all the backpacking trips we do. Going into the bush with 5+ days worth of frozen meat, there would definitely be spoilage since we don't have a cooler. Also carrying chunks of raw meat around in the heart of grizzly country might attract some unwanted attention.

We have learned that he has a sensitive tummy and an unfamiliar snack can sometimes make him sick. I am hesitant to have him on a raw diet, transition him to kibble right before spending a week in a tent in the middle of nowhere with a dog who has a majorly upset stomach. I'd be worried about him getting sick, and not being able to carry on with the hike.

We've had Rollo on Orijen since he was a pup. He has recently gone onto their adult food and he LOVES the six-fish blend. It smells pretty potent but he inhales it, and his coat has never been this shiny. We do add some salmon oil to his food as he had a bit of dry skin last winter. It's extremely dry and cold here so that was completely expected. We have a humidifier running on the max setting all winter and my wife goes through a lot of body lotion to keep her skin from cracking. It's fairly extreme here for dryness, but as soon as we started the salmon oil supplement his dry skin cleared up. Aside from his sensitive stomach when he gets something he's not used to, he does pretty well on Orijen. The only drawback is that Orijen is rich, so his breath is pretty fishy, and he has stinky farts. The breath is an easy fix with a dentabone but the farts aren't!

Orijen is a good kibble, and it is interesting that I can actually drive to their facility in about 7 hours. Considering I live in the middle of nowhere I find that pretty neat.

omgtain

my dogs went backpacking (3 - 6 days) all the time when they were fed raw.
we would gorge them a couple days before, feeding them 4 days worth of food in one day. on shorter trips it would last them, longer trips i'd take freeze dried treats or a bag of kibble.

you have to remember that all nutrition is based over time. every piece of kibble is not created equally. and neither is your food.

Kaja

-completely unscienced reply, take with a grain of salt-

I would assume that good dog food companies (such as Orijen) would have thoroughly vet-approved products. The puppy line is what I fed my shikoku (hardly a big dog, I know)... and now I feed her acana because of the greater variety in flavour. If you want to be thorough, just ask your breeder what they think in regards to which kibble or for how long. I fed my dog puppy food for 8-10 months, but then switched to adult kibble because she was getting sick of it (and kept stealing her sister's kibble anyway).

Orijen puppy food is high in protein, so if your vet recommended a large breed dog food (for adults) then my first thing to do would ask why... and then look at the protein levels in the food. Does the vet think the dog should be getting less protein or something? I once heard that for dogs that grow big quick, avoiding protein rich kibble was sometimes something people did (only under the advice of a vet, ofc). Something about too much weight putting strain on the joints as they grow. Maybe the puppy kibble has higher levels of protein than the large breed adult dog food -- I would check that out, and then ask the vet why they would recommend that. Then I would ask the breeder, too. All in all so long as your puppy is eating good quality kibble, they will probably be perfectly fine. You could always even go half/half.

As for changing kibble, do it gradually. A little at a time helps prevent upset tummies. For me, now that Kaja is older, I like to switch food regularly (different kibbles, freeze dried, and now raw)... to toughen up my dog's digestive track and avoid allergies. So long as it's quality approved food, I don't think you should be too concerned.

zandrame

@TheYeti, freeze dried raw might be an option for you on the trail. If you regularly filter/boil fresh water on the go already, it will lighten your load too.

T_Dog

I was thinking about the vegetable thing. I just don't ever see dogs or wolves eating vegetables. In the wild they eat meat and bone. It seems that just hunting chickens would keep them alive. But I also am thinking that dog food companies have spent millions on research to figure out a good properly balanced diet. So its seems like dry food is probably better for good development in the long run. If I ever do go raw. I think it might be best to wait till after 5 years old when he is completely grown and mature. That way I can't screw things up accidentally by neglecting a certain vitamin that turns out it causes an illness.

Six

It's supposed that when a wolf eats a kill they also eat the contents of the stomach and digestive tract, which would contain vegetables/grass/whatever if it was a herbivore. I think that's where the theory of adding veggies to a raw diet came from.

omgtain

Ive never added veggies to my dogs diet.
I will give them green tripe though (the stomach with contents, white tripe has been bleached and stripped of most nutritional value)
i have always thought of veggies as a person pushing their beliefs that vegetables are healthy on to dogs (like vegetarian diets). Our doctors say they're healthy for us, so it must be healthy for them! would i make it a main part of their diet... ? definitely not. would i go out of my way to make sure they got some or counted their nutritional value... ? fuck no! for all i know its not even getting digested, like the other filler crap used in kibble.

i hand my dogs a whole rabbit and enjoy some piece and quiet for a couple hours while they skin and devour it. dogs live/d on garbage for a long time. only in the past 100 years have they actually been fed 'dog food', they don't need their diets micromanaged. theres no such thing as a 'balanced' diet because all dogs have different needs. age, breed, health issues, activity, etc all play a part.

zoomia

Obviously, dogs aren't people, but if you enter 4 oz of beef liver into one of those diet tracking things, it's pretty amazing how much of daily vitamin/mineral requirements it provides. Hilda will not touch anything with vegetables or fruit, but she will happily eat liver (though not raw, it has to be cooked because she is a little miss pickypants).

I don't judge people if they choose to feed kibble, I have done it myself, and will sometimes do it when I run out of stuff or when we're traveling. That said, I question what vet-approved really means. The pet industry is huge, and their marketing budgets reflect that. The dog food industry has a vested interested in getting and keeping vets on board. I'm not saying that vets are mindless, of course, but there's a lot of pressure against feeding raw and scraps and I question why. When you add huge corporate profits in the mix, well, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I think that's a big chunk of the answer.

TheYeti

I didn't think about freeze dried meat. That would definitely be an option for travelling and backpacking trips when we are far away from even the car.

T_Dog

I wonder if beef jerky would be good for travel. I agree @Six that is probably the main way they would get vegetables. I also like the idea of throwing a rabit in the back yard. Let them hunt and kill as they were born to do. I might hafta let them do it one at a time cuz it could cause a fight.

zandrame

@TheYeti, we supplement/rotate both Kouda and Saki's diets with freeze dried. They love it! When we were limiting proteins for skin issues, it was really helpful. (We use Vital Essentials, because it is prey model - meat/bone/organs and a little oil, no additional fillers. Saki likes the mini patties rehydrated, Kouda likes the hard nibblets straight.)

Also, I overlooked your original post where you mention the excessive gas on Orijen 6-Fish. Apparently that's a common occurrence. You might want to try adding a probiotic, or trying the slightly less-rich relative, Acana Pacifica.

As for dry food, both dogs are doing amazing on Petkind's new Tripe Dry. Kouda was completely on raw/dehydrated before this came out, and Saki didn't have a solid poop until we got her on it. They are on the Lamb/Turkey. http://petkind.com/tripedry-us

@T_Dog, not beef jerky of the human variety because of all the flavorings/salt/sugar, but a dog specific product (there are tons), or dehydrate your own! But it's a treat, not a complete meal substitute. And I think @omgtain meant giving a pre-killed rabbit.

Saya

I would not live feed most raw feeders it is taboo and frowned upon.

It's one thing if your out walking in an field or woods and dog catches a rabbit, mouse, groundhog or whatever but in a fenced yard it is a bit of an unfair game. Coarse deer is one thing you never want your dog to chase. Just my 2 cents on the subject matter.

Also can be dangerous if the rabbit bites back. I'm not sure how much they can fight back. I know with snake owners it is risky to feed mice live as they can fight back. I seen a nasty picture of what a rat can do to a python when it is fighting for it's life.

I have two corn snakes I feed them pre-killed mice luckily they take it fine.

I like vital essentials I gotten their treats before and dogs loved them.

I've fed petkind tripe canned dogs liked it. planning to try the dry for Bella eventually sadly no where near me sells it so gotta go online.

The petkind dry has a offer right now if you join their loyalty club thing they'll send a 25% off coupon in the mail. http://petkind.com/loyalty-us

It's sold on chewy.com if no where local has it.

Bella has a bit more sensitive stomach compared to Saya who has a iron stomach.

I give her digestive enzymes. I do think it helps I started giving it to her after she got giardia. it plus the meds helped her get back to normal.

I've fed acana pacifica, orijen regional red, tundra and currently have 6fish so far Bella does well on all four formulas. only brand of kibble that caused her to get gassy was fromm. Saya did fine with it when she was on kibble.

One thing raw and home cooking is one thing one should really read up on and research before starting the diet.