Poops and Big Houses!
Hi guys! Quick question.
We live in a large 3 story house. Once in a while, without asking to go outside, Kaja will poop on the top floor where no one hardly ever is. It isn't common. Like maybe once a week? I don't punish her for it because I consider it my fault for not letting her out at the right time, and also I don't think it serves a purpose to show disapproval when it's after the fact.
My partner, on the other hand, is demanding that I drag her up there and punish her whenever I see a poop... put her nose in it, smack her. It's how they trained their dog not to poop in the house. But he knows she is my dog and in the end I make the call.
I know there are different schools of thoughts on this. Being handler soft dogs, I try not to punish Kaja and only use positive reinforcement as often as possible. So for example, treating her or telling her she's a good girl when she goes outside.
I also try to section the upstairs off with a baby gate, but we also want her to have run of the house as much as she likes, so it's only up some of the time.
Any advice for minimizing these occasional poops? Is there a consensus that punishing dogs for pooping in the house is a bad thing? Anything else I can do to encourage going outside only?
We live in a large 3 story house. Once in a while, without asking to go outside, Kaja will poop on the top floor where no one hardly ever is. It isn't common. Like maybe once a week? I don't punish her for it because I consider it my fault for not letting her out at the right time, and also I don't think it serves a purpose to show disapproval when it's after the fact.
My partner, on the other hand, is demanding that I drag her up there and punish her whenever I see a poop... put her nose in it, smack her. It's how they trained their dog not to poop in the house. But he knows she is my dog and in the end I make the call.
I know there are different schools of thoughts on this. Being handler soft dogs, I try not to punish Kaja and only use positive reinforcement as often as possible. So for example, treating her or telling her she's a good girl when she goes outside.
I also try to section the upstairs off with a baby gate, but we also want her to have run of the house as much as she likes, so it's only up some of the time.
Any advice for minimizing these occasional poops? Is there a consensus that punishing dogs for pooping in the house is a bad thing? Anything else I can do to encourage going outside only?
Comments
You are correct punishing after the fact does nothing. You need to catch her in the act to be effective and if the house is too big to catch her in act, you need to make the house smaller. Then the question becomes what do you do when you catch her? Positive reinforcement makes something more likely while positive punishment decrease the frequency of a behavior. It's easy to forget that positive punishment as defined by operant conditioning is just the addition of any negative stimulus. Hitting a dog for a potty training issue is unnecessary and over the top. Sticking her nose in it is plain silly. Humans understand the connection, but not necessary dogs. Has this old school way worked in past? It sure has, but usually when someone is rubbing their dog's nose in the feces they are angry and also telling the dog some variation of NO. You need to interrupt her in the the act and tell her NO (the specific word or sound doesn't matter) and then while she is distracted rush her outside and praise her when she finishes her business outside. Also reward her when she asks to go out on her own.
But with the top floor sectioned off, she already knows not to poop on the other levels of the house ... so in order to teach her no element of the house is ok should I maybe instead consider *trapping* her up there and if she tries to go poop I drag her outside so she knows better? I'm thinking maybe try to capture the behaviour through manipulation? Or would that be a bad idea you think? heh
Thanks again for the response!
But when not doing that we will definitely treat everything else as if she is learning all over again. High praise for asking to go outside, when pooping on the grass, etc.
Thanks again for your thoughts on the matter!
And if you DO catch her about to poop, interrupt her and take her right outside (which I am guessing might be hard since its 3 floors up?) to the right place- just a "Ah! Ah! This way! Outside! Lets go!" Be there to direct the correct behavior pronto. The gates are a good idea, and if she has 3 stories and nobody is hardly ever upstairs anyway, then you aren't doing her any favors leaving open to 'give her the run of the house.'
Teach her to ring a bell when she needs you to let her out. Don't set her up for a failure just to prove a point.
I also want to add - stick with your ethics- you are correct that hitting, rubbing her nose in it, showing it to her after the fact, etc is not about learning and is pointless and cruel. Educate your partner about dog training to set him up for greater future understanding.
Depending on how you cleaned it up, the area could still smell like poop to her thus making her think that that is a place to potty.
I'd personally keep her out of that area and only let her there under supervision. That way if she decides to pop a squat, you are there to interrupt and usher her outside.
We installed one of the doggie doors that is a tall glass section that pops into the sliding door track. It was very easy to install and works great!
About the bell -- hahaha I've thought about this actually! But I know people who've done this and the bell becomes a way of asking to go outside for fun. Maybe Kaja wouldn't do this since she's always at the door waiting to come back inside anyway. I will give it a go.
If I do see her pop a squat while upstairs it's fairly easy to interrupt since she does a 'squat dance' beforehand that can take several minutes. So if I see her do the dance I will interrupt her then
And thank you for encouragement to not punish them For pooping. Honestly I'd rather clean up the occasional poop than have a ruined dog (behaviour wise). I'll explain this all so everyone in the house is on the same page!
And yes @Calia ... been using Natures Miracle Advanced formula. I love that stuff. It's the best out of all the stuff I've tried in the past!
swwahokkaido: that sounds like a really smart set up! i would love to get a doggy door solution one day xD