Tyson's training log --- 2 guns, Ty kicked ass

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Comments

  • Right on Dave! Glad you are doing much better and Tys progressing well.

    I'm curious to see how Ty does as a bird dog. I think you have the first ever NK bird dog in NA too!
  • @chrys, Yes, flushing is a spaniel/lab type of thing. A well trained flushing dog will have a very close range (<35 yards) and will sit as soon as the bird flys up. Ty has the range, but at this point he's not experienced enough to handle the flush calmly.

    The difference between a pointing dog and a flushing dog is that a pointing dog's prey FAP has been altered to favor the stalk heavily. Through training and reinforcing that stalking, you get a dog that freezes and waits for permission to complete their FAP. It's pretty amazing to watch actually.
  • I would love to have a pointing lab someday. Bird hunting is really one of the holes in my hunting experience.
  • Its always a great experience to hunt behined a good upland bird dog. Hana and I almost consistantly hunt waterfowle but the few times Hana have been out, she has been a great flusher and retriever. she just loves to hunt and thats all she likes to do.

    I'm definately a great fan of the Lab, although not a big fan of the clingyness and super hyper ADD style temperment of the hunting labs. My friend has a pointing lab and the way that dog works pheasants is just amazing. By the way my friend has pointing lab pups available for anyone wanting one.
  • edited February 2011
    My male Dalmatian MacGregor had fairly good flushing instincts. I didn't deliberately "hunt" him, but I took him on walks in the wildland area near our house. He was on a long lead to comply with the leash laws (and for his own safety). He would "work" an area and occasionally flush pheasants. Dalmatians have been used frequently as hunting dogs, usually for flushing birds. They are also pretty good ratters. They are best known as coach dogs and there seems to be an inherited predisposition for where they would coach (beside the coach, under the axels, in front, etc.)

    Dalmatians share many of the same temperament traits as NKs -- including some of the stubborness and independence.
  • Entry #13:

    Well smack my ass and call me Sally! I was completely blown away today. I mean utterly floored by Tyson's performance.

    Having been on hiatus from training at the preserve since the middle of November (almost 3 months now that I do the math), I expected today to be a "refresher course" for Tyson. I dragged my ass out of bed early this morning after a late night finishing up some stuff for work. We hit the road before 7 and got to the preserve at 8:15. Tyson was chomping at the bit from the second he saw me put on a cammo shirt and load his training box and my shutgun bag into the bed of my truck. He was bouncing and whining the entire drive down there.

    I first let him out of the truck and he was a bit stressed. The preserve's owner has 8 or 9 GSPs that he lets have free roam on the property, and they almost always hang out on the porch of the office where I meetup with Ken. Ty got a stream of hellos from all of the GSPs. He growled softly at each one and then sniffed them before moving on. After about 10 minutes, he settled enough to start playing with Gretta, an oversize female GSP. They played really well while I waited for Ken to arrive.

    When Ken got there, I loaded Ty and my gear into his truck and we went out into the field. We put a quail in my new remote bird launcher and a clip-winged pigeon under a kick box. Since it had been so long, I wasn't sure how Ty would react to the bird or to the gunfire, so I decided that I would have Ken work him up to the pigeon first while I hung back with the .22 blanks. I let Ty out of the box, gave him a quick hug, and gave him the "go hunt" command. He bounded off to my right very intensely. That was great! He's usually a bit more timid, so his intensity really made me happy. After making a round to pee on all of the hay bales in the field, Ken called him over and he started hunting the area we wanted him to. I mean, really hunting. Quartering beautifully and with purpose, nose low, and at a quick pace. I was completely shocked. There was a good stiff 10-15mph wind, and Ty worked it like a seasoned pro. He was making a pass in front of Ken and passed a good 15 feet in front of the bird, stopped on a dime, lifted his nose up, sniffed, and made a confident move directly to the pigeon. GOOD BOY TYSON! He went in, sniffed, pawed, sniffed some more. GOOD BOY! Ken kicked the box off the bird and off it went. BANG, BANG, BANG, BANG! Ty didn't even flinch when I fired off four straight rounds from the .22. At that point, he had caught up to and grabbed the disabled pigeon. He didn't retrive, but he definitely had the bird. Ken took it and tossed it for Ty a few times while I continued to fire off .22 blanks. Tyson's tail stayed up nice and high, he was enthusiastically chasing the bird, and apparently having a blast!

    I was extremely happy with his performance, so we put him up for a few minutes to rest and took out an 8 month old GSP that Ken has been training. We decided to work her onto the quail in the my launcher just to see how it worked. While I was loading my 20 gauge, she ran off the 70 yards to the quail and pointed it from 8 feet away. Wow! We went over, launched the bird, and I hit it on my first shot with my new 20 gauge. A good omen! :-)

    Because the other quail we had brought had escaped the bag, we decided to put the last pigeon in the launcher and work Ty on it. We let him out of the box and off he bounded, enthusiastically hunting again! This time, I decided to work the launcher and have Ken shoot my 20 gauge so I could keep an eye on Tyson. For the second time, he quartered smartly and with purpose, working the steady wind perfectly. Within a minute, he was on the bird. I could barely keep up. lol. GOOD BOY! I got Ken ready, then released the bird. Ty jumped for it, missed and took chase. BANG, BANG. Ken emptied both barrels of my side-by-side and winged the pigeon. Ty was not going to let this bird get away. He was on it like white on rice. He chased it down the hill, across the fence, and into the swamp. When the bird landed in a tree, Ty jumped up and flushed it out, only to give chase again. Ken and I just watched from a distance. It was so beautiful, I couldn't help but grin from ear to ear. After a good two minutes, Tyson finally wore the wounded bird out and was able to get a hold of it. GOOD BOY TYSON!!!! Still no retrive, but absolutely amazing considering he hasn't seen a bird in 3 months. He didn't flinch at the shot of the 20 gauge, and his persistance meant the bird ended up in my truck and not lost. That is as ideal a training experience for a young dog as you could possibly ask for!

    After a rest and trip to the bird house to get some more quail, Ty got an opportunity to hunt two more planted quail. After dizzying them, we planted them on their backs in some tamped down hay. Nice, dense cover, which would prevent them from running. Ty worked from the truck up toward the area of the field we planted the birds. He ran by the first bird, slammed on the breaks, lifted his nose, sniffed, and confidently walked directly in. I quickened my pace to get in range for a shot, but I was too late. Ty plunged into the cover and came out with this quail in his mouth. He let it go and off it flew. BANG, BANG! I emptied both barrels of my side-by-side and missed. :-( Ty trotted over to me, jumped up, whined, and then took off, working the wind in toward the fenceline where the quail had landed. It was almost like he was saying to me, "Don't worry about missing dad, I'll get him again." :-) He quartered into the fence and got real interested in this one area, but he couldn't get through. Ken and I walked him over to an area where we could climb over and let him under the fence, and off he went. We followed, and when he got real "birdy" (meaning he circled with his nose low to the ground, covering every inch of a 20ft square area) we started kicking around to find the bird. Next thing I know, I hear a high-pitched squeak and Ty comes out of some low cover with the quail in his mouth. GOOD BOY! I go over to him, give him lots of praise, take the bird, and toss it for him to chase. I repeated that a few times to reward him. Then we dropped that bird off at the truck and headed off to find the second planted bird.

    On his final bird of the day, Ty again worked the wind in beautifully. I swear he smelled it all the way at the truck, because he didn't quarter at all, he just worked directly toward it with minor course corrections. Before I knew it, he stuck his nose into the cover and a quail came running out between his legs. It took flight with him in chase. I raised the 20 gauge, but the bird never got high enough to shoot while in range. (As a rule of thumb, you never shoot a bird if you can't see the sky behind it.) Ken and I watched it land in the swampy area just off the field we were working in, so we worked Ty down toward it. This was tougher because we were working upwind of the bird, so Ty couldn't smell it on the approach. He worked into the swamp a bit, so Ken and I followed to the edge. He crossed a shallow pond (really a glorified puddle) to this small island and was about the go off the other side, when he turned, took two steps back toward us and up flew the quail directly over my head. BANG, BANG! I missed the first shot, but winged it on the second shot. Ken and I watched it land at some really dense cover along the fence, so we worked Ty back up to it. This time the wind was working in our favor. Ty worked mainly to my right, downwind of me and the bird. As we got close to where I thought it landed, Ty started approaching the fence. I spotted the bird heading for cover and was about to call Ty over when I saw this black blur come out of the corner of my eye and plunge head-first into this REALLY dense cover. I heard the bird squeak, but Ty came out empty. He tried to get through the fence, but couldn't, so he ran 15 yards up the fence, crawled under and came right back down. He was all over that cover, sticking his nose in as deep as he could, pouncing around, and whining like crazy. I went across the fence and tried to help by kicking around to scare up the bird. After about 30 second, Ty lunged nose-first into a particularly thick area. I heard a squeak, and out comes Ty with the quail in his mouth. GOOD BOY! Lots of pets and praise, a few tosses of the quail, and we decided to call it a day.

    Tickled to death is one of the more apropos phrases to describe how I feel about Ty's performance today. He did amazing! His recall sucked today, so I know I need to work on that, but he actually hunted today. And not just going through the motions, he was intense about it. He was on a mission to find birds, and he did. I LOVED it!

    A few more trips to the preserve where I can keep building up his confidence and teaching him how to work the wind to find and flush birds, and I'll be ready to hunt over him on the wild quail population in NC. I think he'll be ready to go by next season for sure!
  • That is awesome news!!!!
  • Wow, good boy Tyson...Dave maybe next time you can bring along a camera person so everyone can see Ty in action:)
  • Way to go Tyson!!! [ & Dave too! ] ~
  • Thanks guys! I just finished cleaning the birds from today. I've grown quite a taste for quail over the last half year or so. ;-)

    @Calia - Now that he's over his gunshyness and I don't need to watch him as closely, I can definitely think about bringing a camera and recording him in action. I just have to remember. :-)
  • Sweet! Thats definately a started bird dog for sure. You have done really well with Ty, Dave. All the hard work pays off at the end and now you got a good versatile hunting dog.
  • That is awesome! Way to go the both of you!
  • That's absolutely amazing--especially considering the "break" you guys took for those months. Congratulations to you and Ty!
  • I'm loving this thread! You should take videos!
  • Entry #14:

    After the success we had on our last visit to the preserve, and given that I won't be able to go again next weekend, I decided to take Tyson out for some more practice last Sunday. This was my first time working him by myself. I've gotten the basics from Ken, read a bunch of books, and watched a bunch of videos. Now it was time for me to take the reigns completely to train Ty without any backup. The short version is, things went well, but we hit a pretty major snag. :-/

    I slept in a bit on Sunday, so we didn't hit the road until well after 11am. Ty was definitely confused by the late departure. To compound things, the temperature was absurdly warm for spring in the high 70s. When I pulled into the preserve office, my truck thermometer read 79. Ty was pretty unhappy the entire way down. I let him out to play with the preserve dogs while I waited for James, the owner, to arrive and fetch the six quail I had arranged to purchase. He played well for about 15 minutes while James and I chatted over a diet coke, and then we hit the field.

    I picked an area they call "10 acre field" to work in because it was isolated and a new area for Ty. I drove to one end, planted a quail in my remote launcher, and then parked my truck in the middle of the field. I got all set up, then I let Ty out of my truck. I wanted to work him on a wing for a few minutes, but he was ready to go the instant his paws hit the ground. Who am I to stand in his way? So I shouldered my 20 gauge and off we went. Ty started off beautifully, making a few nice passess before zeroing in on some dense cover. I got ready, thinking there might be a bird left in the field from some hunters who had missed it. As I walked up on Ty, I found him digging wildly in a rodent hole. I walked him off it and he went charging off on the hunt again. Within about 2 minutes, he scented the bird and walked in on it confidently. To simulate a real flush, I released the bird as he was approaching, but before he had actually found it. He was probably about 2 feet away when the bird popped 8 feet in the air, and took off flying for the trees. I missed with both shots and the bird landed in a tree. Once it landed, Tyson ran off to hunt the area under the tree. He was busy, so I shot it out of the tree to him. Down it came, Ty grabbed it, and took off through a thicket of thorns to enjoy his victory lap. I made my way through, grabbed the bird, and tried to trade him some kibble for it. He wasn't interested. :-/ I didn't think much of it, so we walked back to the truck where I watered Ty, and put him up while I planted the next bird.

    Ty did really well on the first bird, so I figured I'd get a video of him working the next one. This is where things started to go down hill. I let Ty out of my truck, and started working him into the wind toward the bird. He got close, smelled it, turned away, put his tail down, and moved on. I tried to bring him back for another pass, but he decided he had enough and started going back to the truck. When get got about 35 yards downwind of the bird, he clearly smelled it again. He turned, his tail went down even farther, and off he went to the truck. What he did is something referred to as "blinking" in the bird dog world. It is a common behavior in dogs that are gunshy. Here's a video of it. The first blink comes around 0:24 and the second around 1:23.




    I put Ty back in my truck, ran the AC, gave him some icewater, and went out to get the planted bird. The remote launcher has a beeper you can activate to help find it, but I accidentally hit the release button when I went to turn it on. Out popped the bird, I fired twice, and missed both shots. I hunted where I thought the bird had landed for a good 20 minutes, but couldn't find it. So I tried to bring Ty over to flush it for me. No luck. He refused to enter the cover and just walked up and down the field. I decided to call that one bird to the hunting gods, and take Ty for a swim to let him relax a cool off.

    We packed up and relocated to a field with a sizable pond. I let Ty retrieve a few bumpers from the water, toweled him off, and put him up while I went to plant the third bird. We went out hunting again, and this time Ty blinked really badly. I stood a few feet from the bird and tried to call him in. He refused and started heading back to the truck. After a verbal correction or two, he finally came to within about 20 feet of the bird. I gave him lots of verbal praise, and encouraged him to move in closer to me. He took a few tentative steps. Again, lots of praise from me. At that point, I realized Ty's issues weren't gunshyness, but he was afraid of the bird launcher. So I picked up the launcher and showed it to him. He shyed away. I then took the quail out, and held it for him, he showed some interest, but was still a bit hesitant. So I took a few steps away from the launcher and called him over. He came up, sniffed the bird, and tried to take it from my hand. So I threw it up and shot it. Ty was on it immediately, picked it up, and started doing his victory lap! Good boy! I took him to the pond and let him swim a bit more as a reward.

    I then loaded him in the truck, moved to a new location, and planted a fourth bird. This time I planted it without the launcher. Ty zeroed in on the area of the bird very quickly, but blinked again pretty badly. It only took me a few tried to get him in close enough to inspect the bird. I kicked it up, but it didn't flush. That ended up being good, because now Ty could see the bird, not just smell it. He sniffed it intently from about 2 feet away, so I kicked it up again, and off it flew. I winged it on the first shot, and downed it on the second. Ty took off at full speed to gather up his reward. It had flown downwind, so Ty had a little trouble locating it. After passing it by 20 feet, he turned, and took a direct line to it. Good boy!

    I then loaded him in the truck again, moved to a new location, and planted a fifth bird. Again, I planted without the launcher. Ty took a bit longer to find it this time, but still got there efficiently. This time, rather than shy away and move on when he blinked, he just stopped about 15 feet away from the bird, and looked around uncomfortably. Progress! I took me only two tried to coax him in, and I flushed the bird. I missed both shots and the bird flew over and landed somewhere in front of the fence around my truck. I walked Ty over there, and he just tried to get back in my truck. He didn't have any interest in hunting for this bird. I tried to coax him, but he just wandered the fence line without using his nose at all. I hunted for the bird for a solid 30 minutes before giving up. Another bird to the hunting gods.

    I decided to make the sixth and final bird a guaranteed fun experience for Ty. I packed up my shotgun, donned my bird gloves, busted the quail's wing and tossed it for Ty to chase. He was in heaven chasing this bird around in circles. He would catch it, chomp it, let go, and off it would run again. This went on two or three times, before he finally brought his reward back next to the truck and curled up in the shade. I went over, praised and pet him, took the bird, and tossed it for him a few times. I wanted him to know I was proud of him, even if he didn't have his best day of training.

    After letting Ty play with the bird for a few minutes, I took it away and started packing things up. When I was almost done, I looked around to see what Ty was up to, and noticed him hunting between the fence and my truck. What?!?!?! There he was, nose going wild, sprinting around in circles. I had a HUGE smile on my face. I just watched him doing his thing for a good 30 seconds, when all of a sudden up pops this quail. It flys about 30 feet to the other side of my truck, and Ty follows. I met him over at the bird and encouraged him to get it. He pounced and came out with this quail in his mouth. GOOD BOY TY! Lots of praise and a few minutes of toss the bird and Ty was super happy. I then grabbed my unloaded shotgun so he would continue the game while I was carrying it. I want him to realize that the gun means fun games with birds.

    Anyway, three hours later, we're all out of birds and I have one VERY tired Kai Ken on my hands. This was not his best day of training, but I was still extremely proud of him. He worked hard, despite being afraid of my bird launcher. And he didn't quit. I rewarded him with some additional praise, and another 10 minutes of swimming before we drove home. Overall, another great day in the field with my man Ty. :-)
  • Dave,
    I don't have a lot to say, but I just wanted to know how much I enjoy reading this log! Your writing is great, and I love the stories and watching the progress. Kudos to a day that finished strong, and I look forward to the next entry!
  • Thanks a lot! I'm enjoying writing it too. It's a trip down memory lane for me every time I click on this thread. :-)
  • Nice day Dave. I definately saw where he blinked, I guess its just work and patience to sort that boy out. How old is Ty now? One of things to also remember is that NK's hunt better as they mature. So that being said dont give up man.
  • I need to develop an eye for this because I definitely wouldn't have noticed the blink if it hadn't been pointed out to me!
  • @shishiinu - Ty turned 1 year on December 30th. So he's still really young. I'm hopeful that by the start of next season (November) I'll have him squared away enough to make a few trips east where there are still healthy quail populations.

    @hondru - You see those things when you are in tune with your dog and when you gain experience. In retrospect, Ty has definitely blinked in the past, but I wasn't experienced enough to notice it.
  • Great write-ups, very enjoyable to read :-)
    Keep up the good work you both!!
  • edited March 2011
    That is so cool. I love the working dog/handler relationship.

    PS- you really got on it with the video thing! Very good.
  • LoL Dave, don't know if anyone mentioned this yet but every time I read this thread I always picture the Duck Hunt game.

    He is making wonderful progress and I love how you gave the training session a happy ending for Ty. That video also shows how handsome he has become, and how bushy his tail is.
  • Ty is absolutely gorgeous! Glad he ended up having a good day, despite his set back.

    But like Gen said, they get better as they age. So just keep up the great work with him and continue to make each trip a positive experience and I bet he will be good to go by November!

    PS - You can always come slightly northwards and hunt some grouse with Nola! :)
  • It is so great to read your training log Dave, it's always well written and something to learn or at the very least a good story. I have virtually no knowledge about hunting, but I have learned a bit by reading this thread, so thanks ;) I and so enjoy reading about your bond with Ty also.
  • edited March 2011
    Entry #15

    This entry is a week old. I took Tyson out for another day in the field last Saturday, but I got busy this past week and haven't had time to write about it. Here's the blow-by-blow the best I remember it.

    The weather is turning into typical NC spring. We have days in the 40s and days near 80 back to back. Last Saturday was absolutely gorgeous. Mid 60s, light breeze, a few puffy clouds in the sky. What more could you ask for?

    I loaded up my truck and Ty and I hit the road around 7:30am. A bit later than I wanted to start, but not too bad. We got to the preserve around 9:00 to find it absolutely packed. It's nearing the end of the official release and take season, so a lot of guys are trying to get their last minute hunting in. Doesn't leave a whole lot of room for dog training, but we made due. The preserve was running low on quail, so I purchased six chukar instead. Both quail and chukar have a nice gamey scent, so I wasn't too worried about Tyson knowing what to do. Chukar have the added advantage of being 3x the size of quail which makes for a better meal at the end of the day!

    After a 20 minute romp with some of his friends, Ty and I set out into a nearby cow pasture. There were a few cows in it, so I let Ty out to round them up and chase them off. He did his job perfectly. While I was getting my gear ready, Ty chased all the cows into a big group, bayed a large bull for 30 seconds, and then ran them off of the field. A sharp "Ty! HERE!" was enough to get him charging back to me. As he skidded to a stop in a sit in front of my outstretched hand with treats, I noticed something...he was COVERED in cow dung. GROSS! I immediately put my preparations on hold, grabbed his favorite chukar bumper, and walked him over to a nearby pond to do some swimming. No way was I going to wipe that crap off of him without him at least taking a dip first. :-) He's really grown to like water retrieves. (Please forgive the poor video with my finger in the way, I keep forgetting where the camera lens is on my phone.)



    In the background of that video, you can see some of the cows he chased out of the field.

    Having gotten most of the obvious cow dung off of him, I decided it was time to plant a bird and see how he was doing. After our last outing, I wasn't quite sure what to expect. He was much calmer on the drive down, and much more relaxed in the field, so I was hopeful he wouldn't blink too badly. I dizzied and put to sleep our first bird of the day and planted it in some tamped down grass, nice and deep. I drove across the field and let Ty out to go hunt. He took off like a rocket! I barely had time to grab my 20 gauge and follow along. He ran out about 40 yards (a little more than I want him to) but worked perpendicular to the wind exactly like he was supposed to. Before long, he got very birdy. Excellent! On our last outing he was shy, today he was showing great signs of wanting to find birds right off the bat. I hustled up to be in position for his flush, but it wasn't necessary. All of a sudden, Ty plunges into the cover and pops up with a fluttering chukar in his mouth. Good boy! Lots of praise, a victory lap with his bird, a few tosses on our walk back to the truck, and I had one very happy Kai Ken (and owner!). :-)

    Because he did so well, I decided to try to get a video of him on the second bird. I planted another chukar in a different part of the field and got ready to go after it. This video picks up with Ty on the bed of my truck, me trying to safely hold my shotgun and carry the video camera. Unfortunately, I suck at that. So you won't see too much of the action. But stick with it, you'll get a chuckle at the end. :-)



    For the record, I did not shoot an already dead bird. I fired my shotgun into the trees just to expose Ty to some more gunfire. He didn't mind at all.

    At this point, I started scratching my head a bit. If he's catching birds all the time, he's not getting exposed to a bird flushing in his face (which can be scary for a young dog.) It occurred to me that my training mentor, Ken, trains pointing dogs exclusively and he's the one who taught me how to plant birds. To train pointing dogs, you want birds to hold tight so you can "style-up" your dog's point without the bird flushing. I decided to try to plant the third bird a little differently to see if I could get Ty to flush it rather than catch it. Well, that backfired. The second I let go of the bird, it took off flying for the forest. Damn! I grabbed my shotgun, let Ty out of my truck, and off we went to chase this bird down. I saw it land along the fence, so we hunted up and down the fence for a good 20 minutes. No luck. I then lifted the fence so Ty could squeeze under and start hunting the other side. I unloaded my shotgun, placed it over the fence, climbed over, loaded it, and began hunting with Ty again. We hunted for a good 30 minutes on that side of the fence. Here's a video of Ty doing his thing, you can see he's a bit slower now that he's settled in after hunting for 40 minutes straight.



    Unfortunately, we never found that bird. Chukar to the hunting gods. :-)

    After the third bird, we took a break and I let Ty go for a swim again. He got a nice drink of water and cooled off well. I then took him for some playtime with the other preserve dogs before we went back to work on our last three birds. The last three birds went off without incident. I planted them, Ty hunted and caught them, I gave him the "leave it" command, he would drop them and they would fly off. One I downed on the first shot, one I downed on the second shot, and the third I missed completely. Ty found both of the first two downed birds quickly and enjoyed lots of verbal and physical praise from me, including a few tosses on the walk back to the truck. The third bird flew away with Ty in hot pursuit. He disappeared over the hill and I quickly went in that direction, 20 gauge in hand. You never run with a loaded gun, so I couldn't catch up in time to see what was happening. Just as I neared the top of the hill, Tyson came happily trotting back towards me with the chukar in his mouth. GOOD BOY TY!

    I'll tell you, we aren't going to win any competitions, we aren't going to impress any enthusiasts, and we certainly aren't going to win any style points. But I'll be damned if we don't have a blast being out in the woods together. Don't believe me? Tell me this isn't a happy dog. :-)
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  • Awesome! I love reading about Ty and his training. He looks so proud in the picture :)
  • Amazing!! Ty is really improving as a bird dog. Good job Dave!
  • great job. Tyson is really coming along. I also like his birthday mine is dec 30 as well
  • LoL, love the second video:) Definitely need more pictures of Ty, he has grown so much and has become so handsome
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