Cúchulainn (Kishin x Shizuka)
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    SO... I got another Kishu, all thanks to Brad and Jen (again!) I picked him up on Saturday, April 9th and realized he had the same birthday as London, my Malamute (February 16th)!

    So far he's been a fantastic little dog with a lot of enthusiasm for life - as I suppose most Kishu (and NK) do. He reminds me a lot of Fionna at his age - but he's SO much more vocal than my Kishu pups were and a lot more vocal than Toutarou is. I've been told he's Kishin's mini-me.

    His parents are Kishin and Shizuka. I think he'll end up red - almost like a Shiba Inu - when he is fully grown. He was puppy number 6. @shishiinu gave me an awesome name for him to be registered under (Sekirou), but we chose to use Cúchulainn (coo-cullan) for his call name to match my other "hero" names for my Kishu. Fionna is named after another Irish hero (Fionn mac Cumhaill) and Toutarou was another pronunciation of "Momotaro" (the Japanese hero.)

    Cúchulainn was also known for a pretty intimidating rage-face and as a fierce fighter, which I think is pretty fitting for a Kishu. :)

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    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
    Post edited by Crispy at 2016-09-14 21:15:59
  • klndns01klndns01
    Posts: 20
    He is a doll.
  • WrylyBrindleWrylyBrindle
    Posts: 3160
    Not really rocking the rage-face yet ;) Cute-Chulain, I say!
    photo Picture 3_zps4y5sotml.png Kai to the Core!
    Post edited by WrylyBrindle at 2016-04-21 08:47:49
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4525


    Cúchulainn was also known for a pretty intimidating rage-face and as a fierce fighter, which I think is pretty fitting for a Kishu. :)

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    I see no rage face here, yet! All I see is adorableness. :-P
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    @klndns01 @wrylybrindle @sunyata - UGH, he poses all innocent for the camera. This one is, truly, a set of legs for teeth and when he gets frustrated, he screams and throws a fit about it, lol.
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
    Post edited by Crispy at 2016-04-21 14:03:35
  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    cutest set of legs and teeth i've ever seen! ♥
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  • SixSix
    Posts: 67
    Awwww he can't possibly be intimidating rage-face, bless him, look at that adorable ball of cuteness :x
    Congratulations on your gorgeous new addition!
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    Owned by 3 Northern Inuits, 1 GSDx and 1 Hokkaido.
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    He is a fierce hunter of orange peels.

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    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • GrayJJGrayJJ
    Posts: 260
    Oh my, he's adorable :) congrats on the addition!
  • jigzzorjigzzor
    Posts: 109
    How does he taste?
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 2993
    Love the pics. :)
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    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • BootzBootz
    Posts: 150
    Congrats!!! Can't wait to see him grow :)
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1889
    Puppy-Shark! :) He was so charming, even though he kept trying to nibble by face.
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • KoyukiKoyuki
    Posts: 197
    Congrats !! He is flippin adorable! I'm a big fan of Kishin, can't wait to watch this boy grow !
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    I haven't posted pictures of him in a while, so here's more.

    I got his genetic test done through Optimal Selection/My Dog DNA. His color test was both expected and unusual.

    He is: AyAy Ee SpSp - which means if he can only contribute red and white to any potential future puppies. Unusual is that the "SP" means that he SHOULD exhibit pinto markings, but clearly he appears solid, so I'm not sure what that's about. I was going to follow up and email the lab to check on that.

    His diversity index was 102 (100+ is desirable/normal).

    Onto the pictures:

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    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1889
    He's growing up so handsome!
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • nkostevcnkostevc
    Posts: 42
    What a gorgeous little man!
    Questions: Are you planning on allowing him to sire or does the pinto carrying cull him from any future breeding programs?(I'm only learning so please be kind with your answers. Lol!)

    If he does have the potential to be a sire does this mean that perhaps coloured coated kishus could begin to make a (slowly) comeback?

    Are coloured kishus becoming more popular in the showing world?
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    @WhoBitMe - I really like how he's turning out. His coat is nice and thick coming in. The guard coat is a little wavy on the back, but I think that just means he'll have a plush coat when he's an adult, like his mother. He's got quite the handsome little head and a very mischievous expression that I enjoy. :)

    @nkostevc - I'm going to try to answer to the best of my ability! I'm still new at this, too. ;)

    On breeding him-- my personal opinion is that the Kishu breed is too small to cull dogs from breeding based on coat colors and patterns. Since I know that he COULD be a pinto producer (according to his test), I know that if I have the opportunity, I should avoid breeding him to other dogs that carry or exhibit pinto. My two female dogs (Nami and Fionna) do not carry or exhibit pinto and cannot produce it by themselves, (they are genetically SS - homozygous solid-coated) so I'm not so worried.

    In my "program", currently, I have two adult females - a sesame (Nami) and a white (Fionna). My potential males (this boy, a red, and Toutarou, a sesame) are both non-white. I actually prefer the non-white Kishu, but I do my best not to let that cloud my judgement when it comes to making decisions. All of my non-white dogs carry the ability to produce white, however, so any pairing I make with my personal dogs may produce white. I expect (hope) to produce non-white (sesame and red) coats in the years to come when I make solid breeding plans, if my boys turn out.

    Non-white Kishu probably won't ever make a true "comeback" and they probably won't be popular options for people who really want to show and compete seriously. Most non-white Kishu have other color faults (black masks, reds in the coat not vibrant/intense enough, uneven sesame, etc) so even if you got a dog that was perfect in all other areas (which is unlikely, I'm coming to realize, of yushoku dogs), they may still get beaten out by a white dog based on color faults.

    I still show my dogs occasionally - and I am usually my own competition when it comes to Kishu. I don't know of anyone else who currently shows their Kishu in conformation. I know Carleen at Kishu Ken-nel may (she definitely used to, anyway), but she prefers white dogs and that's not likely to change. :)
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    Most of the information on the yushoku/colored Kishu comes from conversations I remember with @shishiinu and @thewalrus - they're probably better authorities than I am on the Kishu breed. I kind of stumbled into this and just have a habit of documenting/repeating what I learn from previous conversations or experiences. ;)
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • nkostevcnkostevc
    Posts: 42
    @crispy thankyou for answering my questions. The more I delve into the nihon ken world the more Interested I become especially when I look into the way the dogs were in the past. So even though the possibility of coloured coated kishus becoming popular is slim to none, in theory though if one could put time and effort into a preserving program and could find some coloured kishus they could slowly over time breed some well structured, nicely tempered and correct coloured pups. In theory that is! It would take a lot of time and funding and that would only happen if there was a lot of interest. What a shame! I really do love the coloured kishus, I think they're just as lovely as the white .
    Post edited by nkostevc at 2016-06-21 04:46:01
  • TheWalrusTheWalrus
    Posts: 1544
    The guys over here in Japan that like the yushoku Kishu actually love when pinto pups are born. It's a very rare occurrence, and of course the dogs can't be shown, but still.
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    I really like the pinto dogs, too. I'm really confused as to why Cú is supposedly homozygous piebald without being pinto, but I have seen the same results occur in wolfdogs - a friend'save wolfdog puppy is the same genotype on the spotting locus and is solid colored. It seems strange!
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • emi802emi802
    Posts: 283
    Hehe, the photos are like watching a progression towards the leggy teenager stage. :x
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    Oh my god it's been forever since I updated his page!

    Little man is turning into quite the little man-dog.

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    He also had a gif of him go viral.
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    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1889
    He's so handsome!! And that beach picture is love.
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • Is he missing two teeth top front?
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    He's so handsome!! And that beach picture is love.

    @WhoBitMe - He's getting there! His neck is very long. I don't know that he'll ever grow into it.


    Is he missing two teeth top front?

    @TheWalrus - At the time of the gif, I think he was missing teeth. He was only 4 or 5 months old there. It was a little bit ago. They're all in, now!

    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
    Post edited by Crispy at 2016-09-15 11:30:14
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    Little Cú is getting bigger.

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    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
    Post edited by Crispy at 2016-11-06 03:09:05
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1889
    He's so cute!
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • AjaxAjax
    Posts: 55
    Such a handsome boy. It looks like his dark puppy mask has faded nicely kinda like what you'd expect in a red shiba.

    Unusual is that the "SP" means that he SHOULD exhibit pinto markings, but clearly he appears solid, so I'm not sure what that's about. I was going to follow up and email the lab to check on that.


    Judging from his white foot and two toes in his puppy pictures, he would be a minimal expressed pinto kinda like some genetically pinto horses who only have a white sock or two and a star if that. I bet that a lot of Shikoku would test the same. I've seen quite a few pictures of Shikoku with a white foot or two and any other white marking, such as on the chest, would blend right in with the urajiro.

    Doesn't TK have a white stripe/snip on his nose? I believe that is classic pinto.
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    @Ajax - homozygous piebald means he should appear mostly white with red patches concentrated at the base of his tail and on his ears/head. He shows the white markings I would expect a piebald/pinto carrier to exhibit. Same with TK. It is only truly called pinto when the white reaches the shoulder or goes over it.

    I am hoping his mask continues to fade into his urajiro, but I don'the know that it will ever go away all the way.
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • AjaxAjax
    Posts: 55
    homozygous piebald means he should appear mostly white with red patches concentrated at the base of his tail and on his ears/head. He shows the white markings I would expect a piebald/pinto carrier to exhibit.


    Hmm, that is a mystery, there's got to be something else going on. I wonder if because yushoku were strongly selected to be solid, that it mostly eliminated the pinto gene that expressed normally and only a minimalist variant survived.

    If that's the case, then it could be possible that some white Kishu's could be cryptic pintos and since the normal pinto couldn't be selected against on a white dog then crossing one of these dog with a yushoku with minimalist pinto could produce a standard pinto.

    I'm not advocating color breeding, just brainstorming the genetic lottery.
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    @Ajax - this phenomenon actually appears to be wild-type in nature. When I got the results, I found that wolfdogs and Alaskan Huskies also test as homozygous piebald (pinto), but appear solid or have minimal white. Chances are we just don'the know all the alleles or loci that go into the pattern, and some dogs are straightforward where others are not. But it may be that the normal/straightforward variant was selected against, so we have this strange variant left, you're right.

    As far as some white Kishu being pinto, I am sure it has happened where they are cryptic pinto, appearing solid white. I just don't imagine it is super common, tho. I definitely think there are wonky things going on.

    Either way, both of my girls are homozygous for solid patterned coats, so I don'the have to worry about any pinto, but I think he may produce pups with white socks if he were to sire a litter.
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    A new shot of my little sir.

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    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • AjaxAjax
    Posts: 55
    Awesome picture. Good looking boy.

    The collar looks good too. Is that a Sangmort special?
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    @Ajax - unfortunately, the collar isn't from sangmort. I have been meaning to get one from her, tho. The collars she makes are amazing.
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    More pictures of my little reddog (who is turning into quite the tall reddog...)

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    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1732
    More of the puppy...

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    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org

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