Any good articles on epilepsy in dogs? Meitou had a seizure last night (UPDATED 9/24-2015)
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1906
    I'm looking for any particularly good information on epilepsy in dogs as I am now worried that Meitou may be epileptic. Saturday night he seized up and just acted weird and it seemed pretty seizure like. It was over in less than two minutes and he has been normal since then. I'm concerned about an epileptic pattern since earlier in the year (I think, or the end of last year, I forget) Meitou had that spasm episode after getting in a fight with a loose dog at night. At the time the vet thought it was likely just a stress response.

    This time, though, nothing stressful had been going on. It was after 11 O'clock at night and he had just been sleeping (and dreaming, making little grunting noises). I went upstairs, he got up and followed and seemed normal than then...BAM, he seized up.

    Nothing really different happened than during his usual day. He's been on a slightly increased dose of his anti-anxiety medicine (fluoxetine, up to 2 pills from 1.5 for a few weeks without any issues before). We also had pest people come and treat the yard for ants, but their stuff is supposed to be pet-safe and they've come all of Meitou's life and he has never had an issue before.

    Short of just waiting and seeing if he has another seizure to know if he is actually epileptic is there a way to find out for sure?
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
    Post edited by WhoBitMe at 2015-09-24 14:29:47
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3422
    Damn. How is his thyroid level?
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  • Last year when he seized had you made any medical changes? We switched anti-anxiety meds for one of mine about a year ago and she had several seizures before we realized it was the meds.
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  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1762
    I'm so sorry to hear about Meitou! :( I had a scare with Fionna when she was younger (~6 months), but no seizures since then. I hope it's nothing - or a connection to something environmental or his meds - at least then it might be easier to figure out.
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1906
    @lindsayt I don't actually know. I've never had his thyroid tested before. But he is due in June for his rabies so I can have a thyroid test done then, too. Is there anything specifically that I should make sure the vet checks for when testing Meitou's thyroid?

    @Vulpesvulpes89 No, he was not on any medications there first time that I can recall. Certainly not on the fluoxetine since that wasn't started until February of this year. I am hoping to hear back soon from the vet/behaviorist that prescribed the anti-anxiety pills to see what she thinks.

    @zandrame Thanks for the links!

    @Crispy I hope it is nothing, too, but considering the luck Meitou and I have... My dog life is kind of stresses me out with Meitou's issues (which apparently he wants to accumulate more of) and Amy is not doing well, and blarg...
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 506
    A normal vet can usually only do a T4 test, and will send out to a bigger lab for more specific tests. You want at least T4, free T4, T3, free T3, TgAA.

    Most of us send out to Dr. Dodds, at Hemopet in southern California, the leading canine thyroid expert. You can have your vet send it for you, or send it yourself (this is what I do, USPS), and save the handling fee. The vet just needs to draw the blood and spin it for you. The Profile 5 test is the one to get.
    http://www.hemopet.org/hemolife-diagnostics/veterinary-thyroid-testing.html
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1906
    @zandrame Thanks! I'll be sure to go over this with the vet.
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1977
    You probably already know this, but you'll want to draw the blood before vaccinating. Vaccinations can throw off TgAA values and then you'll have to wait 3 months before you can test.
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1906
    @ayk Actually, I didn't know that. Thank you for bringing it to my attention!
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1906
    I keep forgetting to update this. I had some blood work done for Meitou (I asked the vet to have his thyroid checked and she wanted to have his liver and kidneys checked). When she called with the results she said everything came back looking fine.

    So at this point we are hoping it was some sort of weird one-off that won't happen again but I am keeping an eye on him just in case.
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3422
    Perhaps it's just the anxiety meds then? People have increased risk of seizures when taking antidepressants and such.
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  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1906
    @lindsayt I suppose it could be. I'm working with the behaviorist/vet that prescribed them to see what she thinks.
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3422
    And these are sorta high strung dogs...I thinks it's pretty common for dogs with this much edge to them to give themselves conniption fits, but then outgrow it as they mature.
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1906
    While I was at work my mother contacted me to let me know that Meitou had another seizure (she watches him for me during the day while I work). He came and found her. She said it lasted 5 or 6 minutes. He didn't loose control of his bowls, he drooled a lot, and recovered pretty quickly.

    I'm not really sure what to do about it. I can talk to Dr. Valli about his anti-anxiety meds and see if we are going to try doing anything for that. I can talk to our regular vet but that is such torture for everyone involved....
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3422
    Sorry to hear that :(
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    @WhoBitMe oh Meitou, poor baby :( I hope there is something they can do to shed more light or help him a bit :(
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  • aykayk
    Posts: 1977
    What was his anxiety like before the meds? Could he be taken off them as a trial?
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1906
    @ayk Basically the anxiety meds are to help him chill out and focus so he is mostly the same dog, escept with a worse appetite. It has definitely helped in his reactivity training (it was originally prescribed to help him with a bit of conditioning for how much he hates vets....). I could check and see if taking him off the meds would be an options, but I am worried some of his undesirable behaviors that have lessened since starting the meds will come back. But I can certainly check into that.

    @mdokic My vet's idea of shedding more light was super expensive brain x-rays or something back when he had his first seizure (suggested if he ended up having more). I was like "Ummm...but I'm poor." (Especially after all the issues my border collie had before her passing that required vet care).
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • Aw, poor Meitou. This sounds like a difficult diagnosis and scary for him, but fortunatley brief. I have nothing helpful to contribute but I do feel sad for you and Meitou, I hope you can find a way to manage/minimize them.
    photo Picture 3_zps4y5sotml.png Kai to the Core!
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1977
    They prescribe meds for treating separation anxiety, just enough to take the edge off so the counter-conditioning can happen, and then wean the dog off the meds. Hopefully that's a similar option for Meitou.

    But of course, that's assuming the meds are contributing to the seizures.
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1906
    Thank you for sharing that video @cezieg

    That does seem pretty close to what happens to Meitou. Although the one seizure I saw he was shaking/flailing a bit more and seemed to be panting/drooling more than what it seems like Genko was doing in that video. But maybe that's just my perception.

    As for an little update...still working with Dr. Valli regarding his medication. She wants to consult with her residency mentor to see if he has any advice.

    Random question, is it possible for seizures to be due to something in the environment? I don't think that is Meitou's issue, but it was something I was curious about.
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3422
    I am sorry about Meitou...he sounds like he has had a genuine traditional seizure. It is totally possible there is something environmental, but probably unlikely unfortunately.
    info@hokkaidoken.org
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  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1906
    I'm sorry for any ill feeling this thread may have caused. I didn't mean for that to happen.

    But thank you all for your interest in Meitou. I'll be sure to post any relevant updates.
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1906
    @Crispy I'm pretty sure Meitou had his thyroid checked the last time he was in at the vet from his previous seizure and everything came back fine back then. But the vet may have only done a basic T4 test or something, I don't recall.
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1762
    Poop. I'm out of options. I can ask Veronica again for some more things to ask about. She'll probably have a ton of questions, but it might be good to bounce ideas off her. Do you want me to try that and see what else she has to say?
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1977
    Heats does wacky things to thyroid. It's one of the reasons why one avoids OFA Thyroid testing during heats. 3 months before/after is advised.
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1906
    @Crispy Sure, if it isn't any trouble I wouldn't mind having you ask. :)

    In the end, though, if he is epileptic then he is epileptic. It's something we'll be able to handle. He's still my wonderful boy and that's the important part. Although I will be a little sad that there probably won't ever be Meitou babies because those would have been the cutest babies, right? ;)
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
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