Age and growth.

jigzzor

So to any owner of an older Shikoku, I wanted to know at what age did your Shikoku stopped growing? Took my german shep and husky about 1 and a half years of age when they finally stopped growing. I wanted to know what to look for in katsu when he stopped growing. Mostly because i'm in hopes he'll end up at about 45lbs or so.

Crispy

Generally, medium-sized dogs stop growing around 1 year to 1.5 years and do most of their growing in the first 9 months, in my experience.

Not a Shikoku, but my Kishu Ken pup is about 8 months and has mostly slowed down in her growth. I suspect she'll grow a bit taller between now and a year, but won't be nearly as large as my Shikoku - her dam (Nami) is very small for a Kishu.

One thing I do notice is that Fionna (pup) has grown at a very steady rate throughout her puppy-hood - compared, say, to my Malamute... who had much stranger growth patterns of stalling and shooting up like a weed.

There was a growth thread for Shikoku if you try to search, tho. I can't remember what it was called.

WrylyBrindle

Why do you hope he's 45 lbs?

Calia

Miyu finished growing taller by about 8 months old, and bulked out a bit until she was about 1.5 yrs old. She reached about 75% of her adult size by 6 months old. Miyu ended up being 37lbs, and has remained that way for a few years now.

jigzzor

So a few reasons i'd like for his growth to be on the larger side. I'd like to breed him, and I think that larger lines like Yamato should be more common. Katsu's sire was Kanryuu, also a respectable size. Another reason is because i'd like to get him to a larger size because i'd also like to get a german shepherd somewhere down the line and would like their sizes to be relatively close. Also possibly teaching him how to hunt.

Calia

If you are interested in breeding him, then you may want to get into contact with established breeders and establish a mentor-ship. With breeding, especially with the Shikoku breed, it is very important to have an understanding of what is needed in order to breed responsibly.

jigzzor

Yeah i asked peggy and refered me to corina, so i'll be trying my hardest to make this work.

jigzzor

Also heres a funny picture of him wanting to greet? or eat? a cat.

Crispy

I wouldn't worry about breeding larger Shikoku, honestly. Size is not measured by weight, anyway.

Shikoku males should be 52 cm at the shoulder per the NIPPO standard, females 49cm. There is a variance of 3cm that is allowed, but that would make dogs like TK on the upper end of the breed standard for size.

Give him some time to turn out.

CrimsonO2

Aside from his size, get his hips checked, elbows, teeth, coat, etc. Take a good long look at Katsu's pedigree and study how breeding him can help preserve or progress the breed by diversifying the North American bloodlines.

If you intend to breed him then you should consult with the U.S. breeders (Peggy, Kris, Corina) and defer to their guidance.

As Co-Director of North American Shikoku Club, @Calia and I work with them to coordinate and plan imports, breedings, litters etc. so that we maximize our breed preservation efforts.

As others have said, if you're seriously interested in being a professional breeder, then reach out to one of them for mentorship. There's plenty of room for people to get involved with this wonderful breed! But we should definitely move forward with care and consideration.

Jesse

emi802

I think jigzzor's wording may have been a little confusing. We don't intend to breed him ourselves. Peggy took the neutering clause out of our contract since she thought he might turn out to be a good candidate for the(? a?) breeding program. She likes his face and red coloration. So, we figured if he looks like a good candidate in a year or two, we'd stud him. She said to talk to Corina, who is the closest to us, to see if he's breed eligible when he's old enough.

As for wanting him to be a certain size, I think I'll just be happy when people stop mistaking him for an oversized shiba.

Calia

LoL @emi802, at least people are guessing an NK for him. With Miyu, I'm often asked if she is a husky and if my shiba inu (who is older than her) is her puppy. Since the breed isn't that well known, you're going to get all sorts of interesting guesses.

emi802

@Calia bahaha, the puppy bit is especially funny to me. It seems shibas are fairly well known and common in the bay area--probably because of the doge meme. Since he's quite red, "that's the biggest shiba I've ever seen!" is heard a lot. I've also gotten akita, basenji, and shiba/husky mix--all decent guesses. Every kid says he looks like a fox (which I'm sure shiba owners hear alllll the time). The weirdest comment we got was when someone thought he looked like a weasel... I wasn't sure if that was meant to be offensive haha. Little weasel face Katsu. :P

CrimsonO2

Ahh, that makes sense @emi802 @jigzzor. If the breeder requested you keep him intact, then they already have tentative plans in mind. We're always talking and discussing bloodlines and future pairings. I'm in the same boat as you. I'm not a breeder, but have had my Kurenai produce litters in collaboration with breeders to help further the breed.

But I did not mean my post to sound discouraging. There is truly plenty of room for people to be involved in furthering the Shikoku population. My hope is for us all to be in it together and do it smartly.:)

Jesse

emi802

Don't worry about it. I agree with everything you said . I was just worried we scared you guys haha. And if we were planning to breed him ourselves.... You would be rightly worried since we don't know anything about breeding dogs

jigzzor

@Calia The worst we've gotten was weasel face from a guy from a diner. We will never go back to that diner.

Calia

Haha, weasel face, I can kind of see it, lol. I love the look of the Shikoku head, though my sister doesn't since they "look too Asian". She prefers my more wolfy looking huskies.

TheWalrus

Generally for Shikoku, a dog that hits the bottom end of the standard by 6 months old will be standard size or larger. Growth (height) generally tapers off after 8 months, and pretty much stops by 1 year. Dogs will continue to fill out over the next 2 years, but most of that growth is between 1 and 2 years old.

emi802

Thanks! That's good to know. Katsu is a little over 6 months, ~19" at the withers, and 30 pounds. So I guess he'll be in the acceptable standard range but maybe a bit on the smaller side. Who knows!

We were a little worried when we saw that Rollo was 28 pounds at 16 weeks. We thought Katsu was really light. I guess Rollo is just really large since he's a Yamato baby.

WrylyBrindle

"Whatever his size, in pounds shillings and ounces, he always seemed bigger because of his bounces!" - AA Milne (regarding Tigger)

TheWalrus

Yes, it would seem he's right on track to end up right around the middle of the standard, or maybe just a touch below it.

Kaja

So glad @emi802 and @TheWalrus posted that info (so useful knowing Katsu's growth at just over 6 months!). Kaja is a touch smaller than Katsu was, but still very similar... and I was reading other people's reports of their shikoku's weight and getting all concerned, rofl.