Toad poisoning or wild mushroom poisoning or...?
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    Spent hours at the vet hospital (state univ.) late last night.
    Kuma our 7 year old Shiba is sick.

    I noticed very loose, liquid stools coming from him when taking out our pup akita. So I knew something was not right. Early evening I was out. Came home and oldest daughter says, "Kuma can't walk, Dad!" Now I knew why he hardly lifted his head upon my return. Told wife about the diarrhea. She prepares chicken and rice for him... while eating it, his left back leg starts strangely moving/sliding away from him - I knew right then, we were gonna be racking up ER bills, as I have NEVER seen this before. I take him out and his right front leg is acting very strange while very gingerly walking. My wife and I have wide eyed looks watching this... we call ahead and immediately head to ER.

    Kuma provided a convenient fresh liquid stool sample in the waiting room - cut to the chase - Fecal came up w/ zero results(other than did see some likely grass and small amount of blood), blood work - nada as well, slight fever (that actually dropped some during our visit). His coordination and limb use remained strange - sometime looked "okay" other times, looked somewhat "drunk". Today he is no worse, no fever, still very lethargic, stiff, lays down w/ a thump, etc. Ate c & r, and recently drank a good amount of water when the chicken broth was added.... the cause(?):

    Kuma was out w/ his females in the yard the night before (as usual), so I saw no vomiting then or the next day (or the foaming mouth)... but a good size woodhouse toad (best I can identify) was out that evening in the yard (knowing what I know now I would've "rehabbed" him somewhere else. Dogs sniffed him and walked away(then) - who knows what happened at 3 am? Anyway, reading that many toads are toxic (of course, the FL ones are poisonous and kill dogs)... and w/ very unusual July rains we also have wild mushrooms popping up in the lawn (young Chlorophyllum molybdites, best I can identify?). Looking up both poisonings and you basically get the same symptoms, which include Kuma's incoordination, diarrhea, fever, lethargy (we saw no pawing at mouth or foaming at mouth). The incoordination is the headline here, in my book. Very strange and a real "marker" I feel.

    Other 3 dogs show no signs. Kuma has never really been sick before. The sudden onset and the evidence of seeing a toad in shrubbery around pool, and the new mushrooms in the yard - are the odd things he could've ingested. The only thing that makes sense, as the vets(young ones on duty) were at a loss (even w/ us mentioning the toad and mushrooms to them). From what I've read, I assume he will come out of this (he did manage growl once at the akita pup today >:P - so he's go tot be getting better , eh?). I read of no antidotes for either poisoning, even if we knew for sure. He will be on chicken and rice for next several days...

    Maybe others have been though either of these ?
    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
    Post edited by tim3308 at 2014-07-22 16:18:39
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    Found this thread( we will be more vigilant after a rain)...
    http://www.shibainuforum.org/forum/discussion/5351/mushroom-warning/p1
    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    Thanks, S Mom! Looking into that right now...
    found this for doses
    http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/milk_thistle.htm
    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    About 7 pm tonight, Kuma came out of it... acting way more normal. Will not soon forget those stiff/uncoordinated leg movements - like a broken robot. Scary.
    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
  • sukoshi_momsukoshi_mom
    Posts: 775
    have your vet check Kuma's liver values to make sure there is no lasting damage from this event. If there is damage, milk thistle or denamarin (derived from milk thistle) might help his liver recover.
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    Thank you & will do. We came back from puppy class w/ the akita, stopped and bought the milk thistle, and at home, there he was being way more of his old self - as in off his bed, so we did not open it. At least our "daytime" vet was well aware of local toad and mushroom poisoning (We literally got no reaction at the vet hospital bringing it up). She said mushroom will last longer than toad toxicity, as it's harder on the liver.
    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
    Post edited by tim3308 at 2014-07-23 00:30:19
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3012
    Scary stuff. :(

    There is mushrooms sometimes when really wet.. Luckily my dogs leaves them alone.

    Saya used to go for toads. took two times picking one up to stop. she'd spit it out right away..
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    It seems most of the edible mushrooms grow in the woods... from what I've read "lawn" mushrooms (ones that pop up here if we get unusual summer rains) are much higher percentage in non edible.
    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
  • Kira_InuKira_Inu
    Posts: 315
    Glad to hear that Kuma is getting better, I had no idea that toads were toxic!

    We have a resident toad in our backyard, I look for him every night and have dubbed him "Mr. Toad"
    Luckily, I trained Kira to leave him alone from the beginning so she actually avoids him when she walks by him.
    Cynthia, Proudly owned by Kira
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    “Dogs are not our whole life, but they make our lives whole.”
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3430
    Amanita species are the worst for liver failure and are common in yards (at least here they are), but not all are bad, just a few. Just in case I would remove all you find in your yard and take them to your local fungus society to identify if you can.
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    Just in case I would remove all you find in your yard
    Mushrooms (two "bloomed" tonight) and toads are now a severely endangered species in our back yard.

    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
  • Myabee09Myabee09
    Posts: 552
    Wow, that sounds strangely familiar! Shelby got sick like that right after we got her.. the vet thought she might have had Parvo, but all the tests came up negative. We were at a loss, but she got better.
    I've always wondered what happened, and since it stormed for about a week after we got her... you may have provided the answer. I'm so sorry to hear that Kuma got sick and I'm so happy he is getting better, but thank you for helping me decipher what had bothered me for quite some time.
    Lauren
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    Takes a village @Lauren. Did she have the weird leg movements? I would describe them as a cross between "paining" him, & looking like he didn't know how to use them fully. Kuma had no vomiting, but definitely liquid stools, and a fever.
    Tonight upon returning from being gone most of the afternoon and evening, he gave me a MASSIVE shiba greeting howl that went on and on and on (making up for lost time;)). He's back.
    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
    Post edited by tim3308 at 2014-07-25 02:25:40
  • Myabee09Myabee09
    Posts: 552
    Well, I can't remember about the leg movements... she just kind of started exploding out of both ends and was limp by the time I got her to the vet. They put her on fluids and antibiotics immediately and she did have a fever. About a week later she was a normal puppy again... it was so strange.

    I'm so glad to hear that he's better! I know you had to be terrified for a while.
    Lauren
    Post edited by Myabee09 at 2014-07-25 22:48:16

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