Ovarian Remnant Syndrome
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    A term that seems to fit my 6 year old female Shiba(Miko)....

    ...great timing (read my intro - new akita pup into house, 7 year old shiba male pissed off about it, to be frank. Females shibas (one is supposedly half keel kai half shiba -Saki. The male, Kuma, has never trailed the smaller female, spayed as well, like this, ever) have already befriended the akita, further pissing off the shiba male....

    Anyway, I think she was just going again into her spayed (several years ago to boot) version of a "heat" about the time of the akitas arrival. As of yesterday the male shiba has really lost his mind("heat" peaking?)! Whining to be near her, intensely trailing and mounting her despite his wounds still healing from his neutering, much to the females annoyance (btw, all these years he has never figured out how to successfully penetrate). 1 plus is he's gotten to the obsessed point where the akita has become semi invisible to him, unless they stumble into each other head on (caused by the male shiba's manic chasing of Miko).

    This is no dominance thing. It is a pure sex obsession. No, of course I don't know if Miko has ORS for sure, but if quacks like a duck... It happens once or twice a year - the sign being Kuma's over the top interest in her (I realize his fresh neutering will take some time for him now).

    Anyone else annually dealing w/ a spay that didn't seem to fully "take"? Thanks!
    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
    Post edited by tim3308 at 2014-07-04 15:48:41
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1671
    What type of spay did you vet perform on your female(s)? Depending on where you are and what country you live in your vet may not have completed a full hysterectomy. Look back at the medical records to see what the vet certificate of spay states.

    As far as your male.... Just because he is neutered does not mean he will not attempt to breed a female. Sometimes a neutered male will attempt to tie even if they have not before.

    Also some females when they have UTI or infection may give off odors that attract other dogs. Take in a urine sample to make sure all is clear.

    In the duration keep you male and female separate and if there is further concern certainly talk to your vet.

    Good luck…
    Snf


  • PoetikDragonPoetikDragon
    Posts: 2872
    I would definitely keep the recently neutered male apart. Don't want him to injure himself, rip out stitches, etc.
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    What type of spay did you vet perform on your female(s)? Depending on where you are and what country you live in your vet may not have completed a full hysterectomy. Look back at the medical records to see what the vet certificate of spay states.

    USA, Oklahoma. My wife says, "we have no spay certificate?" I'm gonna guess we ordered the standard spay at the time. ;) She also adds she thinks they leave ovaries behind, is her hunch?

    As far as your male.... Just because he is neutered does not mean he will not attempt to breed a female. Sometimes a neutered male will attempt to tie even if they have not before.

    Correct. And his was recently done, as mentioned. Believe me...it's her "chemicals" driving him batty. Quite obvious.

    Also some females when they have UTI or infection may give off odors that attract other dogs. Take in a urine sample to make sure all is clear.

    I really appreciate the help, Static, but I would have to say very unlikely on the UTI. It's too powerful and comes on for weeks and then goes away - just like a heat, so to speak. Happens once or twice a year now.

    In the duration keep you male and female separate and if there is further concern certainly talk to your vet.

    I will definitely call her.

    Honestly, it's so obvious he thinks she's in heat, I thought people here would post early, "Yes, this happens - not unusual - spayed females can still give off powerful perfume."

    She is my first female dog... so I am not familiar. Thanks!

    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
    Post edited by tim3308 at 2014-07-05 20:47:08
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    I would definitely keep the recently neutered male apart. Don't want him to injure himself, rip out stitches, etc.


    Ha! Stitches, Claire? If you recall my earlier posts, he ripped those out (two layers!) first night in the wee hours. Vet thought he would not go for it. Wrong. Then she's out of town, offers a 2nd vet she knows to re-suture him (original vet paid for it). She stapled him. Next night, he somehow(ramming it against an object) gets e- collar off and then rips the staples out. That's when my wife and I are supergluing(ta da!) him before heading out of town to my daughter's softball tourney at 7am(fun) , and now duct tapping the e-collar (hasn't got it off since).
    Vet checked him over Tues. Said we did good. It looks pretty good down there. Just put him on antibiotics and said e-collar can come off Sunday(tomorrow).

    Miko knows where to lie(crate, under desks, denying him access) so he can't torture her 24/7. She handles herself pretty well (uhh, unlike the male of the species), and we are usually here (office in house). Thanks!
    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
    Post edited by tim3308 at 2014-07-05 20:48:31
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    Oh, and again the side bonus: Kuma's head is so "distracted", being a s.o.b. to the akita pup is waayyy down on his list of priorities.
    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
    Post edited by tim3308 at 2014-07-05 21:17:05
  • PoetikDragonPoetikDragon
    Posts: 2872
    USA, Oklahoma. My wife says, "we have no spay certificate?" I'm gonna guess we ordered the standard spay at the time. ;) She also adds she thinks they leave ovaries behind, is her hunch?


    Nope, full ovariohysterectomy is standard. In fact its very difficult to find a vet who will do anything else. I was researching tubal ligation about a year ago, and it seems the general consensus is that leaving in any reproductive organs at all is leaving a job "half done." Probably specifically because of the issues you're having.

    EDIT: If she is really having the hormones that cause heat cycles, I would be worried about stump pyometra and mammary cancer... :/
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
    Post edited by PoetikDragon at 2014-07-05 21:26:44
  • Myabee09Myabee09
    Posts: 552
    I have 3 females, all spayed, and I have never gotten a certificate for their spay. I just keep the receipts from all their vet visits in a binder. Also, some vets will tattoo the dogs after a spay. It's a precaution in case they are ever homeless, so they don't get cut open for no reason.
    Lauren
  • PoetikDragonPoetikDragon
    Posts: 2872
    Ugh. Seriously? Why cut open a dog when you can do an ultrasound. :(
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
    Post edited by PoetikDragon at 2014-07-06 02:42:34
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 508
    According to Dr Google, it is relatively simple for a vet to check if she's really in heat, with a smear test.
    http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=3507&S=4&SourceID=42

    But from what you've said, all the symptoms are from your male dog. Does the female have swelling or discharge, or actively flirt with the boys? Have any other intact male dogs taken interest in her? If not, I'd think it's just improper behavior by the male as he tries to cope with stress and his hormones. After a neuter, a dog will have an imbalance of testosterone that will take some time to level off.
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    "Dr. Google" ;)
    Thanks for that. We'll definitely attempt to have the vet on the case mon. morn.

    Yes, all from the male (and our control group - he NEVER does the chasing, shadowing, panting, evasive smelling, mounting on spayed female B). No family member has seen any discharge or swelling from female A. She has not been around other intact males (and I can tell you she does not solicit that we can see - they have never "consummated" in the past for what that is worth).
    Again, the timing of the behavior is heat like for him. No more than twice a year, comes on, then goes away.... and it's pitiful, and completely annoying to watch ("You're telling me", says the female).
    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
    Post edited by tim3308 at 2014-07-06 13:00:45
  • tim3308tim3308
    Posts: 71
    Are you familiar w/ the scene in the classic "Time Bandits" where the devil is turned to stone and then blown to bits... and one of those bits of evil gets left behind, unnoticed?

    Well that sums up the explanation(one of them) my wife got from the vet, on our female. A little piece of something can get left behind and... well pretty much the title of this thread, "ORS", is the result. Of course, she mentioned a possible female in heat up to a mile away(heck, let's throw in our "neighborhood" coyotes - we got plenty!), etc., sparking our male. Sorry, I don't buy that theory one bit. His nose is up her butt, right here 24/7, if he can get access to her. It's like he turns into the "wolf man"(mind is gone), when this happens (and there is history w/ her). Again, we see no physical signs from her, at all. We are to bring her in the next time this rages, and the vet will look at her.

    Suffice to say, this was not the result we expected spaying the female when originally done and paid for. Total pain in the Alice.
    Tim Jessell
    http://timjessell.com
    Kuma 7yr/m/Shiba, Miko 6yr/f/Shiba, Saki 5 yr/f/Klee Kai/Shiba, Kaiju 1 year/m/A Akita
    Post edited by tim3308 at 2014-07-08 13:37:23

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