Nihonken Invitational - November 2nd 2014 Claremont California Trophy Sponsors Sheet Posted 8/18/14
  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    PLEASE SCROLL TO LAST PAGE FOR AWARDS SPONSORSHIP.


    I can finally put a name on the date.

    For the past couple years there has been a lot of talk about getting a west coast show going for our Nihonken members. At our general meeting in Feb, JACA members were very interested in having a second show. So we decided to put the two ideas together into one show.

    We are calling it the Nihonken Invitational and we are licensed for the following breeds: Akita(Japanese) Akita(American, Shiba, Shikoku, Kai, Kishu, Hokkaido, and Jindo. JACA has also put in for a full Altered Class show and a Non-Licensed Class puppies(3mo-just under 6mo). There will also be Junior Showmanship classes as well. To keep cost under control I'm not adding anything else for this first show. This is a conformation only show(s)

    JACA is also opting to make it a two show day. Show 1 then a break and then Show 2. UKC shows tend to run rather quickly since everything is handled as group showing and not single showing. I like the idea of two shows since it allows us to show under two different judges. It also exposes two different judges to breeds that they normally don't see. I've got signed contracts for both judges. The two show day also helps those who want to show and live out of town.

    The location is the Hotel Claremont: http://www.myhotelclaremont.com/ So the show and accommodations are one the same site. I will post room rates ASAP.

    Costs, I'm aiming on keeping the show entry fees low. My goal is to offer: Pre-entry $20 one show/ Day of show entry $25/$30entering the same dog in both shows. So no mix and matching.

    I don't have the time to setup a pre-show event. Would nihonken forum members be interested in getting something going for Saturday? I would love to have a pre-show event.

    Like I said in my other post, JACA is handling the big ticket items: Show site costs, Judges fees, etc. We will be offering sponsorships for the awards. If we can get the bulk of the awards sponsored, this would allow me offer rosettes all the way through the best of winners of each breed. We have to buy ALOT of awards to get this off the ground. @ayk and @poeticdragon be ready to fix my math errors :) But we are offering 8 breeds for this show. So the current plan is to use group showing as the final round of the show. So final placements would be the 1st - 4th place finishers of group showing of the regular show and the 1st-4th place finishers of the altered show. Then each breed has to have this on hand for both the altered and regular show:

    Best of Breed -Rosette
    Grand Champion -Rosette
    Champion -Rosette
    Reserve Champion -Rosette
    Best of Winners -Rosette
    Best Male -Ribbon
    Reserve Best Male -Ribbon
    Best Female -Ribbon
    Reserve Best Female -Ribbon
    Breeder Handler M/F 1st-4th Ribbon
    Adult M/F 1st-4th Ribbon
    Senior M/F 1st-4th Ribbon
    Junior M/F 1st-4th Ribbon
    Puppy M/F 1st-4th Ribbon

    I was thinking it would be cool to get breed clubs to sponsor the Best of Breed for each of the breeds. What I did for our speciality was have each sponsorship cover both the regular and altered show. With the classes involving ribbons being very affordable. The breed club wouldn't need to be a UKC club at all. We would publish the awards sponsor on the show website and premium.

    Finally the big question - Can I show even if I don't want to register with UKC? Yes but with a big * next to it. UKC allows you to get a Temp Listing number for your dog. You can still get awards at the show but it wont go towards your champion points or your top 10 points. This is a great work around for anyone who isn't into the UKC thing or AKC thing. You can still come out show, educate, and enjoy the weekend.

    UKC registration and TL information. Note Japanese Akita TL numbers are going to start requiring the same pedigree check as regular single registration.

    http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/WebPages/Registration/ApplicationSingleRegistration
    http://www.ukcdogs.com/Web.nsf/WebPages/DogEvents/TLRules




    Once I get the license and the listing appears on the ukc website, I'll post more information.

    EDIT- Here is the show poster.
    image
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
    Post edited by *JackBurton* at 2014-08-18 13:52:34
  • PoetikDragonPoetikDragon
    Posts: 2856
    I'm excited! I got my AA her UKC registration for this, and it arrived in the mail on Friday. I'm really looking forward to having JA and AA in the ring together - in different breeds - in the US for the first time.
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3425
    HANA can sponsor the Hokkaido BOB if any show up, and we would also like to make a raffle basket if allowed.
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    I'm required to offer certain awards no matter what so if something is sponsored it is with the knowledge that it may not be given out. Because there is a good chance that many classes offered may not have dogs, I will try to price accordingly.

    When I did our speciality our top award was $50(maybe$60) I think 50. But that got the sponsor best of breed (highest speciality award) both in Regular and Altered Show. I'm working on the awards budget as we speak. Except where I'm required to offer certain colors - the base color scheme for the awards is going to orange white (two color) and orange white silver (three color). The good news is our awards lady has great prices.

    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    I think the Reserve Champion could be bumped down to a fancy ribbon rather than a rosette...
  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    Yeah we have lots of wiggle room. I'll have numbers later this week
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    I have started the early planning stage of trying to make it out for this. If it all work out I will be coming with a shiba and 3 Kai.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    AAAHH that would be so cool!

    I would definitely come up for that :)

    If I wanted to come, could I bring my Kai and just be an observer?
    Michelle, with Kai girls Kona and Kimber
    DSC_6037_NEW_banner
  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    I have started the early planning stage of trying to make it out for this. If it all work out I will be coming with a shiba and 3 Kai.


    Sweet I hope it all works out. I'm trying to get everything all planned out by the end of next month. So people can figure out room rates etc.



    AAAHH that would be so cool!

    I would definitely come up for that :)

    If I wanted to come, could I bring my Kai and just be an observer?


    Of course you can. UKC shows tend to be very friendly to people who are new to showing. @ayk can confirm, I handled for the first time just a few weeks ago. So if you're on the fence it's totally worth trying out.

    I'm hoping this show will be like the specialty with everyone hanging out BS with each other and watching the show.

    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    Breed Handouts:

    JACA is planning on offering some sort of breed information sheet at the raffle table. I'm open to having one for all the breeds. If you are interested in doing one for your breed please volunteer.
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    @*JackBurton* great news!! I'm making an info board for Kai Ken to put up at the OC Pet Expo, if people like that info, maybe I can translate that into info sheets for the invitational :)
    Michelle, with Kai girls Kona and Kimber
    DSC_6037_NEW_banner
    Post edited by mdokic at 2014-03-18 17:37:21
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    That would be great for the kai. The less stuff I have to haul cross country the better.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    Posts: 2211
    I'll check with Corina regarding what she's making for Shikoku. Hopefully we can re-use that same info for OC Pet Expo for the Invitational.

    Jesse
    Jesse Pelayo

  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2081
    @sjp051993 That would be cool to see Arashi's parents and have them meetup again!
    Shows really aren't my thing but if enough interesting people and dogs go, I probably will too.
    image
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    I am gonna try. Just gotta see how things go with work.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4534
    Depending on flight prices, I may be able to make it out! November is definitely enough time to plan this out with work. :)
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    Casey, come carpool with me!!!!
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4534
    @sjp051993 - I may not be able to take that much time off work, so I would most likely have to fly out Friday and back on Sunday. But I may take you up on that if I end up being able to take some time off in November. :)
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    I need someone to drive cross country with me :)
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    It's only a 36 hour drive from my place.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • ValkyriiValkyrii
    Posts: 157
    @SJP051993 you have to drive right past us, but Nero and I aren't ready to be spectators yet :( Someday maybe. (and yes I said spectator!) We are going to look into agility training in this area though just for the fun of it.
  • PoetikDragonPoetikDragon
    Posts: 2856
    .
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
    Post edited by PoetikDragon at 2014-03-19 13:45:19
  • PoetikDragonPoetikDragon
    Posts: 2856
    @sjp051993 Talk @ThreeFish231118 into coming out!
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
  • Did I hear my name? Ah, yes. The Invitational. I have been working on the logistics for this one. I don't think I will be able to do a drive across country. Too time consuming and depending on where I am at employment wise I won't have the time. BUT, I will be able to make it by plane IF California weather behaves and is not too hot and over 85 degrees. So stop with the record heat Cali! I can fly in Saturday and either leave late Sunday which will cut it really close or relax after the shows and leave Monday. I need to get my shiba UKC registered and I can bring her in addition to the JA and show her in the altered class. She is on the smaller side and only 21 pounds so I *might* be able to get her in cabin but my Big Boy Bok Choy has to be checked with the luggage. Worst case scenario I check both. They will probably be out of coat as this is the time of year they lose their summer coats and gear up for winter. I want to fly Delta since they seem to handle the pets the best and I am having a hard time finding direct flights from ANY Chicago airport to LAX. WTF?
  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    Try to fly into Ontario it's 10 mins from the show site.

    Also Nov. 2 is the time change.

    Edit: Southwest flies Chicago to Ontario California direct nonstop.
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
    Post edited by *JackBurton* at 2014-03-19 18:56:26
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2081
    Just curious but what sort of clothing can you wear while showing at a UKC event? Does JACA require a certain outfit?
    image
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3425
    Jeans and comfy shoes are standard attire at most UKC shows I have been to, not at all formal
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    I usually wear some dress slacks and a nice shirt. Comfortable shoes that I can run in but also look nice.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    I wore jeans and a tshirt last time. For the specialty I upgrade to a button up shirt from
    the back of my closet.


    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • PoetikDragonPoetikDragon
    Posts: 2856
    Dress comfortable but not sloppy. Its respectful to the judge to take it serious and look nice. But you still need to be able to run on grass without breaking an ankle.
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    I know someone who showed in flipflops... :-\"
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    But yeah, shoes appropriate for running on grass is a good idea. I sprained an ankle once when my foot rolled. Not fun when it was the driving leg and a 2 hr drive back home.
  • WrylyBrindleWrylyBrindle
    Posts: 3208
    That's common for most handlers, but Pamela will have to wear a bridesmaids dress ;) hee hee!
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4534
    I have a really awesome formal gown that I wore to a masquerade ball last Halloween... I can totally ship that over for @Losech! :-D
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3975
    Whether or not I go depends on the amount of funding and time off I can get November, would love to go though especially since I've never been to the West Coast. I better start saving up now.
    image
  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    Yes Yes save!!! It would be AMAZING to meet you all!!
    Michelle, with Kai girls Kona and Kimber
    DSC_6037_NEW_banner
  • TheWalrusTheWalrus
    Posts: 1559
    I'd like to see everyone in kimono thx.
  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    LOL!!
    Michelle, with Kai girls Kona and Kimber
    DSC_6037_NEW_banner
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    Lol.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    I have actually shown in jeans, t-shirt and bare feet before. It was pouring rain and the ring had 2 inches of standing water. We were all in our bare feet. Tora won a best puppy in show that day.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    I'd like to see everyone in kimono thx.


    The JA folk were planning on attending the show in the official outfit of the Akitainu Handler.... the jumpsuit.
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • toshitoshi
    Posts: 90
    For the dogs showing under the altered classes- what type of collars/leads are accepted? Which type is a dog less likely to back out of?
  • PoetikDragonPoetikDragon
    Posts: 2856
    H. Collars. Harnesses, pinch collars and hanging collar tags are prohibited in show rings.

    That said, you'll meed a lot of resistance at your typical UKC show with anything that has a buckle, too, even though its technically allowed. I've had multiple people tell me I can't use the traditional JA show collar because I have no control over the dog, that its inappropriate to use the dog's "everyday street collar", etc. (Oh trust me, that person got an earful for the last one... F* you that collar was expensive!) When I don't feel like arguing I just use a show chain. Otherwise I use both the show chain and the show collar together the way they're intended.

    Any kind of slip is preferred, whether its rope, chain, martingale, etc. It will also help control the dog and prevent backing out of the collar.
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    Anyone not wanting to purchase one for the show, I have several extra, and various types you can borrow.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    The old fashion U.S. show theory is that you don't want gear that distracts from the dog. Hence the thin collars and leads on dogs that are show-trained.

    Nowadays though, more and more people are putting bling on the leads, saying it compliments the dog like a person's choice in clothes should compliment the dog.

    But a loose dog is far more distracting than any gear. And there are other conformation aspects besides length of neck that judges will look for.
    Post edited by ayk at 2014-03-20 13:58:23
  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    Posts: 2211
    Ha @TheWalrus. I'd kick out a hakama and kimono but I'm not sure what the judge would think other than "baka gaijin"...

    Jesse
    Jesse Pelayo

  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    What about furry costumes? You and your dog, together, with urajiro.
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • zandramezandrame
    Posts: 508
    What about furry costumes? You and your dog, together, with urajiro.
    Lol, this!

    And then we can demonstrate their hunting skills too!

  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    So breed reps and clubs. I want to offer this up to people on nihonken, breed clubs nihonken members have a relationship with, and clubs JACA has a relationship with. If I cant fill them then I'll go outside of that. If your group is interested just pm me. I saw HANA mentioned on here and NASC. If so I would need a logo at some point so I can included this in the show catalog. Between the registration table and the raffle table, I would like to have baskets with materials for the breeds offered at the show.

    Japanese Akita - JACA
    Akita(American) - Hopefully HOTS will want to sponsor this.
    Kishu -
    Kai -
    Hokkaido -
    Jindo - @AYK (Psst I think its time you start a jindo club)
    Shiba -
    Shikoku-

    Hotel - I signed the contract for the hotel claremont. I'm waiting on my bank of rooms and to find out how many RV spots I got.
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3425
    We need a Shiba club outside of NSCA...
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • PoetikDragonPoetikDragon
    Posts: 2856
    HANA~
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    Posts: 2211
    For Shibas, let me check in with BSA and/or Shiba Club of Southern California if they're interested.

    I'll PM you about NASC.

    Jesse
    Jesse Pelayo

  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    I will check with NAKA this weekend for Kai.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    Lindsay I agree with you on NSCA.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    My understanding is BSA isn't into that. I'd love for them to be interested just for the chance of seeing all the Nihonken together.
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
    Post edited by *JackBurton* at 2014-03-21 11:41:08
  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    Regarding representing the breed vs awards sponsorship.

    The cost of representing the breed is just the cost of having materials at the event (flyer or having a banner up).

    Vs. sponsoring a trophy which I will post ASAP.

    Sorry about the confusion.
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1913
    This event sounds like it will be a lot of fun. And California isn't too far away, and I've never been there before, so... lol. I know absolutely nothing about showing, though. But! I do have a kimono, so if that were actually practical.... ;)
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
    --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    NAKA would be interested in possibly sponsoring a trophy.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    Update: Right now I'm just waiting on the listing to appear on the UKC Events website. Once it is up I'll get back to work on awards.
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3425
    I requested the time off :)
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • PoetikDragonPoetikDragon
    Posts: 2856
    The event is up on the UKC site!

    http://www.ukcdogs.com/Upcoming.nsf/ByMonth/7AAC50EBBA064DC085257CB5004CFD21?OpenDocument

    CALIFORNIA
    JAPANESE AKITA CLUB OF AMERICA
    CLAREMONT (O) CONF ALT JS
    The following will be offered at all events: JS (GRP5) HOK JAK JIN KAI KISU SHIBA SHIK NLC: Novice Puppy
    Nov 2; S1 Barbara Marin Entries 8-9 am Show 9:30 am
    Nov 2; S2 Lynn Martin Entries 8-9 am Show 1 pm
    DOS $25; JS & NLC $20; PE $20; Weekend PE Special $30 same dog both shows received by October 25, 2014
    Hotel Claremont, 840 S Indian Hill Blvd, 91711 (909) 621-4831 www.myhotelclaremont.com. From 10 Fwy take Indian Hill Blvd exit and head south at first light turn left into Hotel Parking lot. www.akita-inu.com
    Chairperson: Sean Nollan (310) 594-3606 snolland@verizon.net
    Event Secretary: LeAnna Fox, 2319 West 241st St, Lomita CA 90717 (310) 217-9563 leannafox@aol.com

    EDIT: There are some typos in the above listing. The show is including (American) Akita, and Sean's email address and my mom's phone are wrong. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
    Post edited by PoetikDragon at 2014-04-10 16:52:47
  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    Posts: 2211
    crap, now I gotta get going registering my Shikoku in UKC :P

    Jesse
    Jesse Pelayo

  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    I might have to reduce the number of dogs I bring and fly. Car rental and fuel is looking to be too expensive. It is looking to be cheaper to fly with Kuma and Ritsu.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    The corrected listing should be up any day now. I'm still waiting on the quote and samples from the ribbon lady before offering awards out. For those of you that want to show but do not want to be registered UKC, you can do so by putting in for a temp listing on the UKC website.

    The one big * on the TL numbers is for the Japanese Akita. UKC now requires all JA to provide pedigree for a TL number. TL cost $20 and single reg is $35 so its up to you.

    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Posts: 4055
    @sjp051993 You're coming to Cali? Oh shoot! Now I have to go!!! I'll bring Mika and Koda.
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Posts: 4055
    @sjp051993 Do you want to handle your nephew in the altered class?
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    The plan is for me to come out to cali for the show. Most likely for just the weekend. I would be more than happy to show Koda :)
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    Tara you have to come... if you don't I'll add you to the show committee.
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Posts: 4055
    @sjp051993 I would be honored if you did. It would be great to have Koda work with you. He will love you so much.

    @*JackBurton* ha ha ha. No show committee!!! I will be there though. I promise.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12220
    So is this a UKC show? I don't register any of my NK with UKC...
    Post edited by BradA1878 at 2014-04-14 23:49:57
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    It is UKC.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    It's UKC, but you can get a TL number right (if you're not registering your dog UKC)...but then if you win anything, will that show up as whatever registration your dog has with the title or will it show UKC?

    I was going to look into it, but I figure people here have plenty of that knowledge :)
    Michelle, with Kai girls Kona and Kimber
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  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    Any points earned would stay with the dogs TL number. You cannot receive a title on your dog until you have a permanent registration number. If anyone with a kka Kai is interested in getting full UKC registration, please message me. It can be done, just a certain person made it a little difficult since it did not benefit them. I have successfully done it though. With a UKC registration you can also enter UKC performance events beside conformation.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    i wouldn't be interested in getting a full UKC registration, i just thought it might be fun to see what it's like in the ring once (i wish NIPPO was closer!)...i just didn't know what happens when you have a TL if you win...sounds like nothing really? which is totally fine by me, considering UKC probably has different standards on conformation for Kai anywho..

    It may just be easier to be a bystander and get to meet all of you! :)
    Michelle, with Kai girls Kona and Kimber
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  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    The UKC standard truthfully is jacked up. A well structured Kai does very well in UKC even if it does not match the UKC standard. Ritsu does not fit the UKC standard and the judges that saw him LOVED him. Most judges do not see enough to know the standard that well. I have been educating a lot of Midwest judges on what is incorrect with the UKC standard. You would not pick up enough points in the 2 shows to earn a title. Anyone who would like to try showing just to see what it is like, I would be more than happy to help you out.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    One thing that I've always thought of as a positive about the UKC judging, despite the divergent standards, is that many of the judges do know sound movement and can give feedback about that aspect. I know one of the judges selected for the NK Invitational is a known movement judge, and the other I suspect is a movement + "Can this dog do its job?" judge.

    For type, I would prioritize the feedback from AKIHO, NIPPO, or KKA judges.

    Nothing wrong, IMO, in getting feedback from multiple sources if you know how much weight to put into each kind of feedback. Even with Japanese judges within the same org, you place their feedback into context. ie. Have their judging changed in response to a dog that was placed controversally?

    But besides thinking about what a person can get out of the UKC judging at the show, the reverse is going to be happening. What can you give to the UKC judges? There are some strong-minded judges who really do want to judge a breed correctly and they're not just going to follow what another judge is placing or producing.



  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Posts: 4055
    Having Kais in a UKC show brings up some breed politics I'm sure for a lot of us.

    I look at it this way. This is an AKIHO sponsored show. Just like us Kai owners would like to control our own breed club, for AKIHO the only way to do this was to join UKC since AKC will not recognize the JA as a separate breed. Kudos to AKIHO for taking the bull by the horns and creating their authentic breed place within the structure of UKC. I'm happy to support their efforts and triumphs by putting Koda (a UKC Kai) in the show.

    I have been thinking about Mika's place in all of this as a KKA dog. I could get her a temp number and show her. On one hand, I would be supporting the fascist nature of the Kai UKC breed club owner, on the other if she kicked the butts of the UKC dogs, it would be a little victory for us KKA owners who have all heard from the UKC Kai leader that our dogs are not the "right type", their legs are too short, bodies too long, and yeah they tend to be fat don't you know!

    For now, I will support and attend this event as a UKC dog owner, since I do proudly own Koda and love him very much regardless of all of the politics.

    I will however be bringing my KKA dog if anyone would like to meet her. She will be happy to show off for all of you.
  • PoetikDragonPoetikDragon
    Posts: 2856
    It has been said that the Kai standard is messed up, but a verbal description can only go so far to paint a picture of a dog. It is difficult for anyone who has never seen a Nihon Ken to draw a picture of one from the standard alone, and it probably will not look like the breed in question. The standard must be accompanied by real live dogs for the judges to learn to recognize breed type. Otherwise its like trying to describe a color to a blind person.

    The more judges you show a KKA Kai to, the more they are going to expect that a correct Kai looks like the KKA ones and not those belonging to "a certain person." Breed exposure and education is important. Not showing, not registering accomplishes nothing. It sets back the KKA Kai and it gives a clear playing field for the "other" Kai to sweep the points and titles.

    There are some Japanese Akitas in UKC that are not a part of AKIHO/JACA. Many people believe that non-AKIHO Japanese Akitas are inferior or lack breed type. I've heard other members of our club disparage UKC because those non-AKIHO dogs still received points and even titles. They refuse to show in UKC because of it. Yet if we don't show the UKC judges our AKIHO Akitas, then the only dogs they're going to see are the other ones - so the judges are going to come to believe that is what correct breed type is. Instead, we should be out there showing our JAs against those dogs and beating them at their own game.

    EDIT: Registering with UKC doesn't support the Kai UKC breed club owner. The breed club gets nothing by you registering your dogs. All you would be doing is adding more competition. If anything it hurts them, especially if you can get more KKA Kai registered and being shown than that single person can do on their own. Flood them out.

    EDIT x2: Standards can be changed. I understand its not easy and there's politics involved. But changing the UKC standard requires, at a minimum, being a part of UKC. Joining UKC doesn't guarantee you'll be able to fix the standard, but not joining it guarantees you wont be able to.
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
    Post edited by PoetikDragon at 2014-04-15 14:02:52
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    Thanks, @poeticdragon for putting into words what I wanted to say. It's hard to write it all out on my phone from work. In just one weekend I opened the eyes of 5 UKC judges on correct structure of a Kai. I had 3 dogs there. A full UKC North American bred dog, a kka dog and a hybrid of the 2. We had intelligent conversations about each dogs strengths and weaknesses. They understand quite clearly the politics and most judges don't like it. They have no problem putting one of my dogs up over a breeder judge's dogs. They are all very excited to see more of Ritsu in the ring in the future and hope to see more kka dogs as well.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    All interesting and valid points...I was only just thinking it would be fun to see what it's like, if it brings up too much politics I won't do it, not looking to stir the pot by any means...again, the most important part is i get to see everyone, so if it means watching from the sidelines i'll be just as happy. i do think it's funny they think our kais tend to be fat as @tjbart17 was saying...kona and kimber are both petite little twigs lol :P
    Michelle, with Kai girls Kona and Kimber
    DSC_6037_NEW_banner
    Post edited by mdokic at 2014-04-15 13:12:00
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Posts: 4055
    @mdokic Maybe Mika is chunky. I'm Italian and she loves her food. :-P

    I think we should all attend, and if you feel like you want to put your dogs in the show then that's great! That's what my post said. There are two sides to the story 1) yes it's a UKC show and our KKA dogs are not allowed to be registered with the UKC but 2) our KKA dogs could kick some bootie and show everyone who's number 1!!!!! :-) I'm very competitive. lol
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    I don't foresee there being any issues with politics. That pretty much seems to stay right here in Ohio and Michigan. There is no one outside of Ohio/michigan showing Kai's that I am aware of. I do enjoy showing UKC and like the other performance events they offer. I just don't like how UKC handled the KKA acceptance. Acceptance of the KKA pedigree was turned down by what te UKC considers to be the parent breed club. Last I heard that breed club had 3 members. There is a work around to it all. Brad put a bunch of work into the first step of that prices which is AKC/FSS. I put in the work of getting the AKC pedigree accepted by UKC. So Michelle, if you would like to try the show ring out for 1 time just to be able to experience it, go ahead and get a TL number. You can do that with a kka pedigree. I would love for these judges to see several kka Kai in the ring. Word of better quality dogs travels fast amoung the judges.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Posts: 4055
    I think my post was taken way out of context. I DO SUPPORT this show wholeheartedly! I hope ALL the Kai owners do.

    @PoeticDragon's response to my post took everything way out of context. It was meant to be a positive thing, with a little joke inside. Please let's not go down a negative road with this. I really want everyone to support and have fun this weekend.

    I'm looking forward to finally meeting so many people that I've wanted to over the past 5-6 years. And @sjp051993 get's to finally meet Koda!!! I'm really excited, overjoyed that Mika will also meet her daddy again.

    It's about time we had a West Coast show!!!
  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    LOL @tjbart17 about the italian comment...i love you guys. :P and the competitiveness. you're awesome haha.

    @sjp051993 thanks for all the background and info...i'll definitely think about it. :)
    Michelle, with Kai girls Kona and Kimber
    DSC_6037_NEW_banner
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    If you have any more questions, you know how to get ahold of me. Again above all else, participation in the show supports JACA.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    Will do Stacey!! :D
    Michelle, with Kai girls Kona and Kimber
    DSC_6037_NEW_banner
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    I think it'll be neat to see Ritsu placed in the UKC Top Ten Rankings. For that to happen though, he'll need to beat an intact Kai.

    Any takers? ;-)
    Post edited by ayk at 2014-04-15 13:54:22
  • WrylyBrindleWrylyBrindle
    Posts: 3208
    Not showing, not registering accomplishes nothing.


    This is why - while I don't show- I registered my KKA kais AKC/FSS, why I made their CGC and CGCA's "titles" (why I bothered to CGCA Juno at all actually- I know she's a super dog, title or no- but somewhere, if one was researching kai temperament they could find that Yamabushi no Momiji Juno CGCA, a KKA/AKC/fss kai ken, passed an advanced public behavior title test) and why I posted all Matsu's OFA results publicly at OFA- I want it on record that KKA kais are GREAT: they are healthy, sound dogs of good temperament who can do their work (we hunt, track and hike) and be great companions and citizens.

    If I have the chance, I will run Matsu at barn hunt again (he made a splash and won his group at the Fun Match last year, and a lot of dog-people enjoyed meeting him and Juno and asked us great questions) or try lure coursing, but I know it is not my role to do lots of dog sports, or show. I just don't live near that stuff. Sarah will run Rajah in dog sports, Stacey will show her kais and actually get the strains mixed, Brad will (indeed has) improved diversity with quality dogs. Brad doesn't have to show or do events, but the owners he places dogs with will. It's like in hockey- one of us is the goalie, the center, the left wing, the right wing, the defensemen- we don't all do the same job, but we do our part for the KKA Kai as we are able.

    I hope that by promoting Matsu and being public about his health, character and achievements that he will be helpful in breeding great kai in the future. But this involves coordination with bitch owners and logistics and since I am not right there in the midwest I am not sure how effective that will be. Maybe as the kai spread out good females will be easier to get to work with. (If not, then I hope someday to add a female and focus on breeding away from kai-startle and concentrate the features of curious, rugged, outdoorsman's hiking/birdy kai.)

    I think it is not for all of us to do everything that can be done with each dog- but it is for each of us to do what we are able to do. I say take the show as a fun thing to do with a weekend, see friends, try showing, and dont feel you need to commit to showing or to UKC. That's kind of how I took NIPPO Classic- tho now I feel a little competitive like I want to go again and show Matsu as an adult next year. I'm completely biased, but I think he's a great looking, very well exercised male with some solid character attributes. :)
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Posts: 4055
    @ayk @mdokic Ooh take the challenge!!! Show Kimby. She's adorable.
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    Ritsu will be in the top ten there is no doubt about that. He has shown me he enjoys being in the ring with me. That is what really makes it fun, when the dog enjoys it. That is why I still show kuma with all the shiba politics, because he loves doing it.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    LOL! Awe, no challenge, it would be fun for them to be in the ring together...it's just the way Kimber focuses on me and prances when we're together, I have a feeling she would enjoy it too. Are you allowed to hold a treat in your hand btw?? Sorry if that's a stupid question...both Kimber and Kona are so food driven it makes everything easier :P

    Kona, it's debatable...she loves agility, and with me only (poor Nate lol), so she may or may not like it. But she sure gets that derpy smile when she looks at me during agility "oh OK! go throught the tunnel...WATCH ME!!" gets to the end and sits on the table "treat? did i do good? what's next, ok yay jump that thing!" I think the physical and mental challenge aspect of agility is what she likes though, which is why with her i wonder if she would really enjoy a show.
    Michelle, with Kai girls Kona and Kimber
    DSC_6037_NEW_banner
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    Most judges allow bait (treats). And there are never stupid questions :)
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

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  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    Awesome, thank you! :)
    Michelle, with Kai girls Kona and Kimber
    DSC_6037_NEW_banner
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    Okay, so new challenge - get 2 KKA Kai on the UKC Top Ten. :-D

  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12220
    To be clear, since I think I may have started all this Kai stuff...

    My distaste for the UKC has nothing to do with the breed club, its president, or Kai politics. I just don't like the UKC - for any breed. I also don't value the judges opinions on what a NK should be. And so, I don't want to give them my money.

    You can register your KKA Kai Ken with UKC if you have AKC-FSS papers. That is why I got the AKC-FSS to accept KKA papers - so KKA owners could show in the UKC is they like.

    Also, I dunno that I'll ever show a dog again. My experience showing at NIPPO, even given my relative success, was unpleasant enough for me, personally, that I just have no interest in being part of that scene.

    Winning a silly ribbon or points or some shit doesn't give me enough motivation to put up with all the politics and such. Also, the show made clear to me the attitude of many of the people who define themselves by their show wins (not talking about any of you)... and, it just kinda disgusted me.

    I might be convinced to just go to the show and hang out with friends and see Yamabushi puppies. And drink beer.

    This all came up because.. (why I asked about the UKC thing) Because Jen asked me about the show and we discussed one of us going.
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Posts: 4055
    It didn't start with you @Brada1878. There has been chatter.
  • mdokicmdokic
    Posts: 1020
    If i even actively participated in the show I would only want to do it once to see what it's like...thus would go with the TL number, not the full registration (i dont have the time or energy to go through that stuff and i really don't care about a title)..if it ends up being too much hassle, i'm just happy everyone will be there, and it would be so awesome if one of you came too to hang out and grab some brews :)
    Michelle, with Kai girls Kona and Kimber
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  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Posts: 4055
    Which reminds me. We need to plan a pre-party! Ummm "Pre show meet up". Yeah that's a more proper name for it. :-P
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    I wonder if we can grill at the hotel? I still remember Gen's jalapeno burgers and wild boar. What is the name of the marinade again? @shishiinu
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Posts: 4055
    @ayk Just as long as we can have beer for @brada1878, @sjp051993, and @mdokic. I will need wine.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3425
    A pre-show meetup sounds great!
    info@hokkaidoken.org
    www.hokkaidoken.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com

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