FCI - Fédération Cynologique Internationale
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 302
    Popping out of silent lurker mode to ask a few questions of this knowledgeable, international group. I'm not sure I know how to ask the questions I need, but here goes.

    Basically, I'm trying to get a sense of the FCI's significance and place in the showing, breeding, standardization, and international recognition of "national" breeds, especially the less common Nihon ken or more recent entries (within the last decade) such as the Jindo (@ayk).

    Are all the Nihon ken officially recognized by the FCI? From what I can see, yes...
    Shiba (1992), Kai (1994), Hokkaido (1994), Kishu (1994), Shikoku (1995), Akita (2001), American Akita (2005).
    Japanese Spitz was the earliest entry under Japan, 1987.
    However, no entries for the Ryukyu ken, Japanese terrier, etc.

    Is there a sense that FCI recognition of a breed confers legitimacy or prestige? How is the FCI regarded differently amongst European, Asian, or North American breeders?

    Were any of the Nihon ken accepted on a "Provisional Basis" before earning full recognition? I'm trying to unpack what this means. How comparable is it to the AKC Foundation Stock Service program, for example? What kind of record-keeping does Provisional Basis require, how is it ultimately determined that a dog moves from Provisional Basis to full recognition, so that they are eligible for CACIB (International Champion of Beauty) awards?

    If these questions are too broad, my apologies. I realize the FCI is a fairly large organization that does many things -- navigating its website is like stumbling through foreign territory to me. I'm asking you guys for help because I wanted specifically to get a sense of how the FCI fits into the purview of Asian dog breeding programs, especially those that necessarily have to rely on complex, cross-Pacific or transcontinental networks.

    Thank you so much in advance.
    image M.C. with Bowdu (Shiba Inu) and Bowpi (Basenji) at The House of Two Bows
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    Big questions.

    In Korean circles, the FCI gives credulence that the Jindo breed is a "real" breed to outsiders/foreigners. It's a similar perception thing, same as getting AKC recognition.

    There's also a thread of national pride and competitiveness involved. ie. Why is the Shiba and not the Jindo showing at Westminster? I think Koreans would care half as less about international recognition of the Jindo if there were no Japanese breeds also recognized.

    AFAIK, the Jindo was provisionally recognized by the FCI for ten years. I haven't researched what additional steps were involved to get provisional and then full.

    The Japanese Terrier is FCI recognized. Their original standard is dated 1995, but I don't know the official year.

  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    Just remember that FCI = most of the worlds national kennel clubs. JKC, LOI, etc are all members of FCI. I know that with the Akita JKC still defers to AKIHO when registering their dogs. Now I don't know if this has changed but the AKC FSS used to be very suspect. Some rules the AKC would fallow but others would be ignored if it meant more registrations. I need to find it but one of the toy dogs really had a rough time through FSS.

    Also the Akita has been in FCI for sometime. They split 1998 and revised 2001. The American Akita was the Great Japanese Dog from 2001-2005.
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 302
    Okay, big questions, but you guys can handle them. ;) I have a lot of little, basic questions too, just trying to pick through the online material to understand how it works, since I don't think I know anyone who's participated in FCI events.

    I missed the Japanese terrier. But that's interesting to me that the JT and the Japanese Spitz were both recognized so much earlier than the Nihon ken group.

    Does the FCI's working relationship with the home country's kennel club play a factor in deciding which breeds get recognized? If I understand it correctly, the FCI recognizes one kennel club from each country, and charges that KC with oversight, registration, officiating records, etc.? But then the kennel club from the home country also has a complex network of relations with each of the breed clubs.

    I would assume that countries with a longer established and more organized kennel club, like Japan, have an easier time getting their breeds, or native canine "property" (to use their term) recognized.

    I can't pull the USA or Canada from this map:
    http://www.fci.be/membres.aspx

    So the US (AKC) and Canada (CKC) are not members? Do North American breeders/exhibitors have no way to participate in FCI events then? I guess that would account for why I hardly ever hear anyone talk about it on this side...

    "Great Japanese Dog" sounds like something for an action-adventure series. ;)
    image M.C. with Bowdu (Shiba Inu) and Bowpi (Basenji) at The House of Two Bows
  • PoetikDragonPoetikDragon
    Posts: 2867
    The US and Canada are not members. That is correct. And that's why the JA and AA are not split in those two countries, while they are everywhere else.
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
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  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    Yes the nation of origin plays a significant role in the breed.

    FCI has MOU's with AKC and CKC(I'm not 100% sure if they have renewed). Those MOU restrict FCI shows in these countries. Mexico holds FCI shows. National kennel clubs and breed clubs are major part of that process. Infact these clubs can impact how the kennel clubs establish policy. Just ask the Finnish nihonken people how awesome their Akita breed club is right about now :)

    I also heard from a friend in Hungary that they are in a battle with their respective club.

    EDIT: So here is the story behind the Great Japanese Dog. When the World Akita Congress was held the JKC was going to push for American Akita since the AA style dog was improved upon in the US. The sitting ACA president at the time announced this is America and its an Akita and we'll do as we please. 24hours later the GJD was born. People are such idiots at times.
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
    Post edited by *JackBurton* at 2014-03-16 13:37:01
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    So the US (AKC) and Canada (CKC) are not members? Do North American breeders/exhibitors have no way to participate in FCI events then?


    Some North American breeders/exhibitors will fly out of the country for FCI shows. Some of them kept up the FCI paperwork when they imported dogs while others took advantage of the agreement between the AKC and FCI. For a while, Morningstar kennel was attending World Dog Shows with her Shibas.

    I could probably enter FCI shows in Mexico if I weren't scared of driving there. I remember an owner/breeder of Central Asian Shepherds being frightened while traveling to the World Dog Show that was held in Mexico. (The World Dog Show rotates locations.) If that person was scared with her canine bodyguards...
  • venusvenus
    Posts: 285
    The US and Canada are not members. That is correct. And that's why the JA and AA are not split in those two countries, while they are everywhere else.

    the Uk is not part of the FCI either but of course we have the 2 breeds although the JA is currently a relatively new breed here still.
  • curlytailscurlytails
    Posts: 302
    The US and Canada are not members. That is correct. And that's why the JA and AA are not split in those two countries, while they are everywhere else.

    the Uk is not part of the FCI either but of course we have the 2 breeds although the JA is currently a relatively new breed here still.


    That's super interesting to me -- thanks for pointing that out. I guess there's a sense that the US, Canada, and UK have fairly authoritative canine organizations already, and there's less pressure to participate.

    The FCI is the largest organization of its kind, isn't it? That is, one that claims to be an international federation of kennel clubs. "The UN of kennel clubs," as I've heard it described -- and UN membership is certainly fraught with political tension, as well.

    International competitions must also be such a headache to negotiate -- high costs, lots of paperwork, and the risk of travel, including arbitrary quarantine upon entry either to or from the show destination seem like high barriers to overseas participation. I guess there are a lot of reasons why FCI shows are not on the radar of many English-speaking breeders, even if it's such a large and authoritative organization (depending on who you talk to).
    image M.C. with Bowdu (Shiba Inu) and Bowpi (Basenji) at The House of Two Bows
  • venusvenus
    Posts: 285
    i think its unlikely at present our KC would join although i know a fair few exhibitors would love if we did. And while expensive i know a fair few that show in Europe (various breeds), yes its expensive and in all fairness I am clueless about paperwork but its a lot easier to travel these days now our quarantine laws have been relaxed.
  • MirkaMMirkaM
    Posts: 1248
    Dogs registered to UK's KC can participate in FCI shows as far as I know.
    Kai will lay down its life to protect its master.
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  • venusvenus
    Posts: 285
    they can and many do.
  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    Ireland is FCI
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • venusvenus
    Posts: 285
    southern Ireland, is but northern comes under the UK Kennel club just to confuse matters further lol. i'm think of taking eris over next year if her breeder goes. althugh i have been told its actually cheaper going to europe than it is Ireland to show lol
  • souggysouggy
    Posts: 247
    Australia and New Zealand are not full members of FCI either. They only have "associate member" status.

    A few years ago, after Pedigreed Dogs Exposed, there were a few breeders who wanted to start an FCI-recognized kennel club in United Kingdom. It never got anywhere because FCI only recognizes one kennel club per country and the British Kennel Club already has the contract with FCI.

    But basically the camps were split into two: 1) one wanted to honor the country of origin's breed standard; 2) the others didn't want to give up their breed club's sovereignty of dictating the breed standard.

    And it's the same in America. There are a few breed clubs which don't want to follow the breed standards of the country of origin or patron country.

    FCI is not perfect. For instance, Germany has the patron status to Landseer when it should be UK. Shar Pei's breed standard belongs to UK when it should belong to Hong Kong. Chinese Crested belongs to UK, when it should be AKC...

    And a few others.
    Blog: Prick-Eared - now featuring primitive dogs
    Post edited by souggy at 2014-03-19 06:43:33

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