Akita puppy and house training

edited February 2014 in General
Hello everyone,
Although this is my first post, I've gathered a lot of useful information throughout the years! I'm hoping I could get some advice about our new Akita Inu puppy. We got him only a week ago and he is 10 weeks now. Is it normal for him to be peeing literally every 15 minutes? When he's not in his pen, I always have my eye on him but we haven't made any significant progress with house training because he pees so often and without a warning. He just lets it go whenever and wherever he wants. Most accidents are really small puddles, so it seems he's not even trying to hold it in. When he does pee inside, I yell no! And immediately take him outside. When he's outside, he thinks it's play time and starts running around. I do take him out after naps, eating, etc. but literally, 15 min. after I've taken him out and he pees, he pees again inside. He's never pooped inside before though, thank goodness. I know he's still a baby, but I remember my 2 Shibas were a breeze to train and could hold it in longer at his age. One thing is, I believe the breeder might have kept him in an outside pen with the rest of his litter. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong! Any help or advice would be really appreciated! Thanks in advance :)

Comments

  • My male Akita wasn't fully house trained until 5 months old.
  • My Kishu male did this. We nicknamed him 'The Firetruck' because he peed so much and so often. Patience, perseverance, and crate training got us through it.
  • "Puppies have not yet developed bowel and bladder control, so they can't 'hold it' as long as adult dogs...Just so you know, a puppy is never completely housetrained until they are 6 months old. For some breeds, even later....Most puppies have to eliminate about every 30-45 minutes except, of course, when sleeping."

    try these links:
    http://www.perfectpaws.com/htrp.html
    http://akitanetwork.com/care/care.htm
    http://www.inch.com/~dogs/cratetraining.html
  • From my Amateur/Expert Opinion: Based on what you said above, you Akita is the easiest type of dog to train. He already knows where his pee scent is and will continue to alleviate in the vicinity of his pee scent.

    Fixing the problem at hand
    If possible get a urine remover or a very strong smelling carpet cleaning solution and douse the pee area. Be very generous. If he detects a trace of urine he will go there to make his mark more potent. Makes sense?
    When he does pee inside, I yell no! And immediately take him outside. When he's outside, he thinks it's play time and starts running around.
    Of course! You have now marked for him that when he pee's you will yell no and take him outside. BIG PROBLEM! He has now associated Peeing and "No" with the reward of going outside to play. Who wouldn't pee to get the reward to go outside.

    You need to give "no" some meaning. There are two ways:

    1) Has worked best for me- keep his leash on him at all times (preferably without the loop handle) when he is doing something "undesirable" Yell VERY DEEPLY "no!" and give the leash a tug. If he stops, say "yes" very lightly and give a reward. After a few times of this he will learn what "no" really means. '

    2) Second option, which may also work, is to play the "yes/no" game with his food bowl. Have him sit before giving food (raise the bowl just above his head ). If he does anything other than sit, say "no" ,in an even tone, and pull the bowl up higher. If he remains seated lower the bowl to the floor for him to eat and say "Yes".

    Also until he has mastered the tip below- Only give him water when he eats (at his age at almost 3 months he should be switching from 4 to 2/3 times a day.


    Training
    Now i have only potty trained one way and based on your dogs behavior,(Extremely smart and OCD with pee areas) I think this would work best. Get a crate, one that he can only stand in and can barely turn around in(preferred) or use the one you already have. Feed him his meals in this crate, and water as well. After he is done eating. Wait exactly one hour before you take him out. When you take him out, PICK HIM UP and dont let him down until you are outside. Have a hand full of treats (preferably kibble if that's what he eats) hidden as well. When you take him out. Say "Go pee" And place him on the grass. If you have a side walk, DO NOT stand on it. Get in the grass too. DO NOT watch him, in fact look in the opposite direction of him, and give him as much length as possible on the leash. once you see his head in the ground and he is circling and the leash stops moving all around he is probably going to pee. Once he pees! Yell "YES!" and give him the entire handful of treats and scratch his belly. Make him feel like he just won the lottery. In fact he just did with the handful of treats. Do the same thing when he poos. Rinse and Repeat. He will be begging you to go outside.

    If you wanna pad train I have a tip for that as well but currently since your taking him outside, I waould assume you have resolved to outside eliminations.
  • Shibas are most def easier to house break than JA.
    Have you gotten him checked out by a vet to rule out anything medical (UTI?) that could be causing the frequent urination?

  • I think Akitas are harder to housetrain than some other NKs, like the (mostly) fastidious Shiba, for example. At least my Akitas have been harder to housetrain. And neither were reliable until 6 months of age, and were still peeing in the house randomly at 5 months. (My girl turns 6 months soon, and knock on wood, I think we're done. It has been 3 weeks since she has peed in the house!)

    It's pretty basic training, outlined in some of the links above. You should also get Ian Dunbar's (free, downloadable) books Before and After You Get Your Puppy for good basic housetraining and socialization tips. It is here, but you do have to sign up to the page (which is free) to get it. Still, getting his two puppy books for free is worth it, and he's a great trainer overall! http://www.dogstardaily.com/training/after-you-get-your-puppy

    Basically, they need to go out at least once an hour when they are young (but it did seem like my girl peed every 15 minutes too!). I don't limit water all the time, but I did monitor, because she would basically drink everything in the bowl every time if I didn't. I always took water up around 10 pm (assuming she was going to bed at midnight to 1 am).

    I had terrible trouble using pads in the house. I had to use them, because I ended up with what is thankfully rare: a puppy who was quite happy to pee in her crate. It was so messy cleaning up after her (had to clean crate and pup) that I started using pads in the crate to clean up easier. But then she'd just happily pee on the pad, and for awhile, we had confusion with her peeing on anything on the floor (a dog bed, say). I was not using pee pads either, but unscented pads. It was frustrating, and seemed endless when I was doing it, but it's done now! And even knowing the pads complicated things in some ways, I probably wouldn't have done it differently, because they still meant I didn't have to bathe here and clean out the crate several times a day.

    And, btw, I would never use a leash jerk on a dog, but esp. not on a puppy for anything, and especially not for housetraining. that will just confuse things, as will yelling "no" when a puppy is being a puppy outside. The "I am excited to be outside and am playing not peeing" is frustrating, but on the other hand, you only have a few months of it, and then it's done, so I just wait them out (sometimes with gritted teeth!), on the going outside part. Or you can do what Dunbar suggests, which is to bring the puppy back in again and crate her, if she didn't pee outside when you took her out, then take her out again in 10 minutes, etc. I didn't do that because my pup would just pee in the crate.
  • Oh, my JA puppy also peed and poo'd in the crate/ex-pen too but only when she was locked up and distressed from being left alone. We weren't able to crate train her for that reason. These days (she's 20 months old now) she loves her crate though we never close it :-)
  • edited February 2014
    I disagree that Shibas are easier, but then, I've never had a Shiba. I just can't imagine a puppy being any easier to house train than my JA pups have been. But I'm sure having the right start in life really helps. I gave my puppies a place to pee and poop away from the nest at 3 weeks old and they instinctively used it and avoided soiling bedding. Later when I got crates for them to sleep in, let them on the furniture, etc it was just a natural extension. By 10 weeks, the only indoor accidents we had were because I didn't take them out when I should have, puppy was in the wrong room without the puddle pad, etc. And of course, the pups I sent to their new homes relapsed a bit because it was a new environment and a new routine; that is expected. But if the breeder never gave them a potty area or let them have accidents in their bedding or play area where the odors can soak in and confuse the puppy... it will take significantly longer for a new pup to "get it."

    That said, 15 minutes is way too short for a puppy that age. They should need to go roughly every 2 hours. If he was older, I'd say he was marking - but that's not really the case. So he may have a bladder infection.
  • edited February 2014
    My Kai was like that at that age too. Like stated before, there is nothing "wrong" with your pup. 10 weeks is too young for bladder control. Most pups Ive had in the past needed to pee every hour plus before & after meals and naps. Yucca, However, needed to pee more then that. She had lots of energy so the combination of all that running plus drinking plenty of water had her needing to go all the time. most of the time it was while she was running around; she would just stop, pee, then take off again. How we handled it was first, while she was peeing, talk to her in an upset tone. Not really yelling, just sounding upset. There is no point in picking the pup up, all that will do is make a mess as he will probably keep peeing anyway. After she is done, we would pick her up, take her out to a little grassed area and wait till she peed again. It is a game of patience but you have to wait it out. Dont take them to an area that they play in, take them to a "potty only" area and dont move or let him pull you somewhere else. We would wait til she peed then praise her like she did the greatest thing in the world. We have carpet so we would soak the area in urine remover and baking soda to remove all traces of the smell (this is very important as the smell will trigger him to pee there again). Also as a preventative measure, we would take her out a rediculous amount of times. If they pee every 15 min then take them out every 15 min. Dont give them a chance to have an accident & constantly re-enforce that out side is where they pee. They will eventually get it. I would also recommend that once you start feeling like its more under control, that you rent a carpet cleaner (walmart and petsmart have them as well as many grocery stores), and deep clean anywhere the pup has had access to. We shampooed our carpets twice. Once when Yucca was down to only having the occasional accident and once when she was completely accident free. Oh yea and another thing that made things way easier, we got a bell on a lanyard to hang from thefront door knob. We taught Yucca to ring it when she needs to go outside. It only took one day for her to figure it out and I highly recommed you try it.
  • I almost forgot, Id avoid the "piddle" pads. They really just make it harder to train a pup to go outside as you are giving them an acceptable place to potty inside. Use them only as a last resort or in a carrier while traveling.
  • When you take the pup out to potty, put a leash on him. Don't just let him run around and play. Don't engage him till he's done his business, either - then, make a huge deal of it. Its the BEST THING he's ever done, ever! Puppy party time, every single time.
  • haha puppy party time!
  • Oops, I though it said "Akita Puppy and Horse Training"...
  • Wow, thank you everyone for all the tips. I really appreciate it! I think I just wrongly assumed that he would be as easy to house train as my Shibas. The good news is, he had less accidents today, so I guess that is progress! Thanks again everyone :)
  • I can remember what a PIA training Kaede was. It didn't take long but I remember having some ups and downs. When I'm back on the computer I'll do a search on Nihonken and see of I can look up what I did to get through it.

    Since this is an introduction post... Would you mind introducing yourself. Nothing deeply personal but simple stuff like where you are from. Is this your first Akita inu stuff like that.

  • True, I didn't even realize this was an intro. thread. :)

    I actually think it's likely all dogs are different, and I'm not convinced you can even tell what they're going to be like--it may not be reflective of their early training necessarily (though it could be). Some puppies just get it quicker than others! I also find girls harder to housetrain than boys. And I also agree take them out as much as they need. There was no way Zora could have gone two hours in those first weeks (though she was always fine overnight, oddly enough). I kept thinking she should be ok for an hour, and she wasn't, so I had to adjust...

    But really, Shibas can be so fussy, which can work in their favor! I got Toby at 7 weeks and he had very few accidents in the house at all.
  • My first question for you, is the puppy playing a lot? The more they play the more they pee. Playing can stimulate the bladder more as well as increase the need for water thereby increasing urination. My personal suggestion is do not yell no when the puppy goes in the house, this is negative attention and dogs would prefer negative attention over not attention at all. Plus, time is of the essence with dog training and by the time you tell him no he is done peeing and has no idea why you are telling him no. If the puppy is food/treat motivated I would also bring treats outside and in addition to lots of praise when he pees outside give a treat. Again, timing is everything and make sure you praise and treat immediately. Do you still have your 2 shibas? Older shibas are GREAT mentors and teachers. Send the akita puppy outside potty with the shibas. My male akita did not stop peeing in the house until about 5 months. His accidents were not during the day or night but when everyone was home and there was lots of activity going on and he was playing and active with us or our older shiba. We were just patient and cleaned up puddles until they stopped. Kept a mop and bucket out and changed the water every day. We were also potty training our son at the time so we were in the mindset and just patient with everyone. If one wasn't peeing the other was. I will say we had very few poop accidents. That was nice. For what it is worth, my shiba peed just as much as the akita. I wouldn't say she was easier or better than the akita, in fact the akita was probably easier because the older shiba showed him where to go and what to do. We were put out with the shiba because we read so much about how they are easy to housebreak and ours was stubborn. She had accidents probably all the way through 9 months old.
  • Yeah sorry, let me introduce myself. My name is Tiffany and I'm originally from Texas. My family has 2 Shibas, Akina and Pixie, 6 and 8 years old. I moved to Paris, France last year for my boyfriend and we just got our first Akita Inu, Haku. Before I got my Shibas, I researched dog breeds and came across the Japanese Akita. As much as I wanted one, I was still in school, and the rarity, price, and living in apartments, made me think the Shiba was a better choice. So after all those years, I'm happy to say I finally have one :) thanks everyone, I really love this forum because it's really helped me out a lot.

  • I almost forgot, Id avoid the "piddle" pads. They really just make it harder to train a pup to go outside as you are giving them an acceptable place to potty inside. Use them only as a last resort or in a carrier while traveling.
    I think this is unreasonable and makes training unnecessarily difficult and confusing for the dog and frustrating for the owner. Here's why. The end result of house training is not just a simple command but complex set of behaviors:

    1. Puppy stops what it is doing.
    2. Puppy moves away from the play area to designated area.
    3. Puppy asks to go outside to potty.
    4. Puppy waits while human gets ready to go outside.
    5. Puppy goes to designated outdoor area and relieves itself.

    You can't jump straight to #5. If any point the puppy can no longer hold it he will pee right where he is, failing in the desired objective. Positive reinforcement is all about setting a dog up for success - only asking it to do what it is capable of doing and then rewarding it when it succeeds. When a dog fails, there is no reinforcement given, and it learns nothing. Worse still, it may become confused because the commands / rewards seem sporadic and unpredictable.

    Instead, each step should be reinforced individually.

    Now, most puppies I know can do #1 by 8 weeks of age so that one should be in the bag. (I do know a few really excitable breeds that just keep peeing while they're playing and wrestling though, so they've got a bit more work cut out for them.)

    The pad is crucial for step #2. Give the pup a designated area that it can easily get to and use during the middle of a play session. Don't try to make the dog hold it any longer at this point - the only goal is to teach the dog that it can't just pee anywhere, but must go somewhere in specific.

    For steps #3 and #4 I argue that you still need a puddle pad so that if the puppy cannot hold it any longer despite its best intentions it has an acceptable place to go potty you can reward it for. Without the pad, the puppy will just pee on the floor by the door and that's not its fault but yours.

    When the puppy is reliably doing #4 then and only then you can then retire the puddle pad.
  • @Navydog and @PoeticDragon - both gave very good examples of PROs and CONs for pee pads.

    IMO- It depends on the dog. Just like @Navydog said, with Hades he refused to pee anywhere besides a pee pad. I would take him out for hours when ready for him to start going out and he would hold it until we got in the house and then pee in the house. I had to put pads down for him until about 6mo because of this and he still thinks its ok to go when taking him to friends house. He got better because i had to pretty much wait it out (MANY HOURS), hanging with him outside, and at the DP for him to realize it was best to do your business outside.

    On the flip side, like @Poeticdragon said, Athena is very smart and was semi pad trained before we left the breeder. She then took to pads fairly easy. It took about 2 days to get her to pee outside but that's because she is also learning from Hades. however The day when I think she is perfect, i fell asleep on the couch and she peed on the floor. No warning no ringing door bells (Which she also does). I since put down pee pads and she hasn't used it except, when i was in the shower and came out. I noticed she had peed on it. SMART GIRL.

    The Above reinforces the point @Poeticdragon made about:
    #2. Give the pup a designated area that it can easily get to and use during the middle of a play session. Don't try to make the dog hold it any longer at this point - the only goal is to teach the dog that it can't just pee anywhere, but must go somewhere in specific.
    Conclusion: Do whatever you have the patience to be consistent with and what works for your pup. I do think the hybrid (@Poeticdragon) approach is the best when you have a cooperative dog.

  • edited February 2014
    I don't think the puddle pad should be the only option for the puppy. The owner should still be trying to take the puppy out every single time it needs to pee. It is not a case of using the pad *instead of* taking the puppy outside. And the pup in question is already being taken outside and peeing outside, so the odds that it will start refusing to potty outside are low. Introducing a pad in place of taking a puppy outside [like pet store puppies] and using only the pad for the first few months after weaning would likely cause problems.

    Now... I have a dog that was raised outside until 8 months who refuses to mess in her run and also refuses to poop on leash (although she will pee). To make matters worse she always takes forever to find the perfect spot to go, sometimes upwards of a half hour. It is incredibly frustrating trying to get her to pee and poop before I put her up in her run, especially if I am in a hurry for any reason. If I leash her she wont poop, if I don't leash her she wants it to be play time. I really want her to poop and pee before I put her in the run; one time when she stayed out in her run overnight she held it for *36 hours* and I know that can't be good for her. Its also a pain to go on trips with her, because it takes until the second or third day before she'll finally poop on leash, or we have to find an off-leash place for her on the way.
  • edited February 2014
    @Shikoku, Everyone that I know who has used pee pads has had that same issue which is why I advise against them. Also if you read the package, most pee pads are scented to encourage the dog to pee on it. I'm all for having an alternative absorbent place for a pup to pee on rather then my carpet but I'd (personally) rather take them out before they pee then use something that encourages her to pee indoors. In fact that is why you try to remove the scent after an accided, because the smell will encourage more accidents. As long as th smell is there, the dog will pee on it. To each their own however so really it's up to the owner & the dog to decide what works for them.
  • @Shikoku, Everyone that I know who has used pee pads has had that same issue which is why I advise against them. Also if you read the package, most pee pads are scented to encourage the dog to pee on it. I'm all for having an alternative absorbent place for a pup to pee on rather then my carpet but I'd (personally) rather take them out before they pee then use something that encourages her to pee indoors. In fact that is why you try to remove the scent after an accided, because the smell will encourage more accidents. As long as th smell is there, the dog will pee on it. To each their own however so really it's up to the owner & the dog to decide what works for them.
    Yep. That was my issue, too, until my breeder suggested I use Chux absorbent pads (which are for hospitals, and have no scent in them). I wish I had started with that, because while I'll never know for sure, I suspect the scented pee pads really helped my pup think, oh, this is where I pee. I mean, I still absolutely needed pads (see above! :) ) so I didn't have to keep cleaning her up all the time, but it would have been better to start with the non scented pads I think.

    It's not a substitute for regular training--it's just a management tool, especially for the difficult to train and less fastidious dogs.
  • @shibamistress I didn't even think about using the hospital ones! That's a good idea. I agree, I like the use of them to protect your floors or to line a kennel as long as there is no scent and its not used as a substitute place to pee. I think pups learn faster if they are taught from the beginning that inside is never an acceptable place to potty
  • I wouldn't have either--so it was a great tip from my breeder! :)
  • edited March 2014
    We 'planned' to use the pee-pads with Nero since we are on a third floor. This was the first time trying to train a dog from this environment. Our last dog we trained we were in a house. The day we brought him home he pee'd on the tile by the sink. Twice. So I used an enzyme cleaner but also decided that was where I would put the pad.

    I used it as a backup though. I was determined to work around his schedule all week and work with recognition factors for potty time.

    Ultimately I realized that the pad was really for my sanity when he left a puddle. So I had to ignore the fact he pee'd there, clean it quickly and show him no real recognition for it.

    Potty time outside we make a big deal out of.

    Our typical day:

    4:30am wake up and take Nero out for pee break,
    I have slip on shoes, jacket and hat ready to go so he doesn't have to wait too long.
    We have a bell at the door (thanks @NavyDog ) we ring every time but he cannot access it yet on his own.

    He pee's, I give him lots of puppy praises "GOOD BOY!" "INSIDE"
    He turns and runs right for the door.

    Because I do have to walk him and don't have access to a yard yet, I have 2 directions. One is potty and back in. The other is 'lets go for a stroll' On cold days he has no interest in strolling. LOL That has helped him understand the difference.

    I feed and water him then wait 30 or so minutes.

    5:00am I take him for a stroll. This time I'm looking for a bowel movement and 1-2 pee stops before I bring him in.

    5:45 quick pee stop and I'm off to work.

    Now here is where we mix him up a little since my daughter's schedule changes. The rest of the day he'll get a couple of short breaks and one pass around the complex. He gets water only before the long walks.

    He is crated for a few hours either in the morning or afternoon depending on schedules for anywhere between 3-4 hours. This is why we give him a few walks before he goes in his crate. We want to help him succeed by insuring his bladder is as empty as can be.

    5:30-6PM My wife takes him for a quick break. She feeds and waters him when she comes in.

    6:30-7PM I get home and take him out for a stroll.

    He gets a couple more short breaks before bedtime between my daughter and I.

    Taking him out so frequently can be tiring, but it's also incredibly rewarding. He averages about 4 1/2 -5 hours in his crate at night without making a peep. He manages his few hours during the day in the crate peacefully. When we are home we cordoned off the kitchen and the living room for him to join us. The kitchen is tiled.

    The trick here as so many before have said is we make a BIG deal out of success. We don't allow him many opportunities to miss by taking him out frequently enough and at key times. (Wake up, coming home, after eating, etc) He is beginning to recognize that outside to certain areas means "potty! I get happy stuff and petting, I run back to the door for more petting!"

    I know he will miss at some point. Likely it will be because we miss some sign. But with diligence he has not had an accident in 6 days except the one where my daughter put me on speaker phone and he got excited and pee'd.

    Now he uses the pee pad as a place to nap. Same one has been on the floor for 4 days.

    This is just an example of what worked for us. It's been a lot of work, but i can't say anything else I've done lately has been as rewarding.
  • Great example of puppy routine! And I agree, sometimes the pads are just for your own sanity and ease!
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