Raw feeding and throwing up bile

Dragonfly

I've switched kiyoshi over to a raw diet. I did it gradually starting out with small portions of raw at a time and still offering some kibble for inbetween meals. I've now weaned him off of the kibble and had started just feeding him twice a day, once in the morning around 9am and again in the evening around 9pm. I thought that would be sufficient. Except I forgot to take into consideration that raw food takes much less time to digest than kibble does. So he was throwing up bile twice a day, always in the early morning and early evening, about 2-4 hours before I would have fed him. I've read that he's throwing up from having an empty stomach filled with stomach acid and nothing to digest lol Has anyone had this happen to them before?

Yesterday I split his daily portion into 3 meals and also fed him some biscuits as snacks right before bed, and again in the early morning and also made sure he had bits here and there throughout the day. It appears to be doing the trick as he hasn't thrown up since then.

Does anyone have any better ideas for snacks? Should I continue the snacks until his stomach gets a bit more adjusted? I just feel so bad watching him vomit Will he stop throwing up over time? What kind of experience did some of you have with the transition?

Losech

Yeah, when I fed the dogs on a schedule. I don't do that anymore, so they aren't anticipating a meal at a certain time. Mealtimes are random, in the evening usually, but random, can be anytime from 5 to 9. Sometimes they'll get their meal in the morning or early afternoon.
Snacks helped out when I was doing scheduled mealtimes and as they were adjusting to eating the raw foods.

Kiyoshi is still pretty young, I'd keep him on 3x a day meals until he's a bit older, then switch to 2x a day. I feed my older pups and adult dogs once a day.

Saya

I never had this issue sorry..:\

Saya gets cooked meat, dehydrated and home made dog treats I make myself for training treats throughout the day. she gets dog biscuits and kibble for low value treats too.

The treats I make is usually cooked ground meat and organs with buckwheat flour and oats plus egg cooked in oven. treats depends on what I have I keep a stock pile on the home made treats in the freezer two big batches last me long time.

Chicken gizzards, hearts make a yummy snack. Coarse being new to raw I wouldn't overload with too much new variety. Maybe give bit of chicken gizzards or hearts as snacks..

For Saya Snacks are usually either a egg, canned sardine or salmon, chicken gizzard or heart. small pieces of beef, pork, or lamb heart or chicken foot.

There are probiotics for dogs which might help with transitioning. some use human kind, but I'm not sure what to look for and what to avoid with human brands..

This one I read about it's called gentle digest. the local pet store near me sells it. I'm not sure if stores like petsmart or petco has it..
http://www.arknaturals.com/gentle-digest-probiotic-capsule

It'll probably take time to adjust to things.

The PDF file on this site is nice read it is mostly on prey model raw type, but if you plan to feed barf kind of diet I'm sure this guide is still helpful for info..
http://www.chanceslittlewebsite.com/prey-model-raw.html

I don't feed barf kind my style is sorta my own type raw I follow the prey model raw guideline, but Saya gets stuff for small snack or treat every once in while.

Stuff like honest kitchen zeal, caned pumpkin, cooked apples from my apple tree. she doesn't get those things daily, but as a treat I have tons of fruit trees so usually have extra she loves ripe pears and eats tiny bit of those on the ground when hanging in the yard.

This spread sheet here is useful for figuring out amount of food to give. Keep in mind some dogs need bit more or less depends on age, metabolism etc. Puppies usually need bit more food compared to adults.
http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_Diet/thread/491589

Starting slow is good advise especially once the dog is ready for organs like liver, kidney and heart. those things are very rich and important to go slow with introducing those things give tiny piece at a time. Coarse organs are usually introduced bit later once the dog is used to raw.

Eggs can be rich too for some dogs so go easy till you know how the dog will take to it.

Saya got raw egg since she was 6months old so when she was starting raw she did fine with eggs.

Like Losech said stick with three times a day meal and once older can do twice.

Saya always got random meal times with her kibble and when she was on raw too I kept it random.

She is an adult now and she gets fed once a day sometimes she gets snack or twice meal a day, but I keep the meal random sometimes at am, lunch or dinner.. She gets her treats during the day too.

My last dogs always got their meals at or close to the same time like clockwork and if you missed it for too long one would bile vomit. Yucky..

I read varying the meal time some helps with that.

WrylyBrindle

Kiyoshi is a puppy still, right? nothing wrong with three meals. 12 hrs is a long time. MY dogs exercise a ton, and I find two small meals and a biscuit in the evening works well for them. Rei and Juno will puke bile in the morning if I forget the biscuit. The boys don't seem to have this issue, and Sage sometimes only eats breakfast, but Matsu is always excited to eat- like I never, ever feed him. He's a hungry teenager.

Calia

Miyu has always puked bile in the morning if her breakfast is late, even when she was on kibble. Nothing wrong with her medically in that aspect, it has just become something to expect of her should her stomach remain empty for too long. Though I have to admit that since our work schedules keep us from feeding the dogs at the same time every day, I have noticed Miyu puking less in the morning.

Dragonfly

@Saya - Thanks for the info and the links. I haven't started feeding him any organs yet, I've kept it pretty simple with not a whole lot of variety at the moment while he's still getting use to it. I'll have to look into the probiotic, it certainly wouldn't hurt to give it.

@WrylyBrindle - Yes Kiyoshi is still a puppy. I'll keep it at 3 meals a day. When he was on kibble before he didn't seem to be very hungry during the day. I'd feed him in the morning and he'd eat maybe half his kibble and id leave it out for him incase he came back for the rest but he normally wouldn't touch it again until almost dinner time anyway. He eats all of the raw every time though, and he didn't scarf it down either, he takes his time which is nice.

@Losech - I'm gonna have to try the random feedings. That'll help a lot since I'm not always home at the same time in the evening.

Dragonfly

Update: It's only been a couple days but he hasn't vomited at all since I started feeding him 3x a day plus some snacks in between. As snacks I've given him checken jerky, yogurt drops, or some homemade chicken meatballs

He was vomiting every day since I started the raw over a week ago so this is a great improvement. Bile really stains carpet...

StaticNfuzz

Sounds like you have it covered...

hummm….I wouldn't randomize meal times just yet given his age. On young dogs randomizing usually means random elimination as well. If you are on a work schedule it's important that a pup keep to routine for digestion. It's a matter of picking your battles if you will. Over time (in our case) I have noticed that high metabolizes also seem to throw up more if meal times are widely spaced or too few.

He is really young and honestly with the growth spurts you will see coming up, he should have multiple feedings (like you've started doing)….. if nothing else smaller amounts at a sitting but often.

If you randomize, I say randomize days you will feed raw. You could also go the route of say am is Kibble and pm is raw, or, MWF raw and the other days kibble. Again at this age you want to make sure that your puppy will optimally get what they need nutritionally from every calorie of food. You will notice differences in appetite with growth spurts and you can adjust on those days. In six months you probably can begin to back off a meal safely if you think he is slowing up or not sufficiently interested.

Also adding something into the raw such as pumpkin or rice may help in buffering his tummy and introduction to raw, or easing digestion, or balancing out days that he has kibble.

Snf

MapleTwinkie

I agree with @StaticNFuzz - keeping feeding times regular keeps him on schedule

Also, regular feeding with plenty of snacks in between helps prevent stomach bile from building up. Yogurt is also a really good option as it neutralizes the acid. Keep a lot of water available, and maybe even a small bit of kibble through the night so your pup can feed and this will probably also elminate morning bile.

I feed my dog raw and i'm a huge proponent of it; however I only started my dog at 9 months of age. I don't know if your pup is too young or perhaps it might take him a bit of time to adjust. Are you feeding prepared raw or unprepared raw?

Dragonfly

@StaticNfuzz - Thanks again for all your advice, it really is helpful. I've been giving him a full portion in the morning and evening and a half portion late afternoon. Someone is almost always home with him so going out to potty isn't an issue right now. The pumpkin and rice is a good idea. I was actually going to make some pumpkin treats tomorrow if I find the time.

@MapleTwinkie - He seems to be doing better on the raw rather than the kibble, especially now that I have the meals and snacks figured out. His poop was always so runny when he was on the kibble, I couldn't figure out why, and I kept waiting for his poop to get more solid before I switched him to the raw but finally I just gave up and did it anyway. His poop is much more healthy looking and solid now from being on the raw. It's unprepared raw.

Saya

I know a few breeders who start their pups on raw when ready for solids. There is a few people on a forum who started their dog on raw at 8weeks.

Yeah the random thing is best when dog is an adult. for me I was home a lot so had no issue with potty stuff..

My next pup will start raw when I get him/her.

I'm Glad Kiyoshi is doing well. Saya loves plain greek yogurt she gets a bit once in a while as a treat. I used that mixed with peanut butter as doggy icing for Bell's birthday dog pumpkin cupcakes.