Awww, sorry about the chi. Unfortunately, I wouldn't recommend continuing trying to socialize them together. Puppies learn life-long habits from these early encounters. It's better to socialize him with dogs who enjoy puppies so he continues to think other dogs are great. Just think, do you want your dog learning social skills from a dog who has none? I made that mistake with my Shiba, and a friend's unsocialized Maltese. Kouda loved the other dog, but as a result of constantly being "attacked" has become more reactive.
As for the goose, wow! Impressive little hunter. And he brought it back to you! Will you be hunting with him in the future? What did you do with the bird?
Sorry for the typical Chihuahua I really despise those "dogs". They've always been teh most vicious dogs that I ever had to work with. I even prefer the 100lb+ "junkyard" dogs that have to have their head + vision blocked off by their owner, otherwise they'd murder whoever tried to handle them lol.
The goose episode sounds really awesome! That's pretty great that he stalks rather than charges. I really like how NK minds work. Any pictures of him and the goose?
Hmmm...maybe no pics....if it was a wild goose, given laws about migratory wildfowl etc.
(impressive though....geese are pretty tough birds)
Yeah I'd skip trying to have him around the chi. Doesn't sound like it is going to work out. I find them pretty obnoxious dogs, too, though I'm sure there must be some nice ones somewhere.
Kiyoshi sounds a lot like my Shikoku, Jack. He was ultra confident from day one, never afraid to play with bigger dogs, and was a very early leg humper. He also liked to pounce and nip other dogs in the butt (not hard at all, just playing). It was fine while he was little, but when he got a bit bigger it was annoying because he would get into trouble when playing with other dogs and rightfully so because he was the one being rude.
Shikoku generally like to play rough, so none of that was abnormal and I didn't want to inherently change his playstyle. So my trainers recommended that I start working on "call aways" really early. i.e. send Kiyoshi out to play for a few seconds and then call him away from the play and back to you, where he gets a treat and can then go back out to play. A long line is helpful for this so you can guide him back to you until he gets the idea. For me, the exercise was really helpful to get Jack to reset if he was getting crazy and to let him know when he needs to tone it down a bit. Although I do change the level of crazy I let him get to depending on the dog he's playing with...
Anyway, I'm not an expert, that's just a little something that helped me with my pup.
BTW, in defense of the Chihuahua...a lot of them are monsters for sure, but I've met some really cool ones who were properly socialized.
I have to agree with twobirds. I have met a couple very nice, well behaved Chihuahua also. I have also met some really nasty undersocialized ones.
I think that many Chihuahua owners don't realize that they are dogs and not toys, and think that their snookums is too cute and sweet and tiny to ever harm anyone, despite it growling and nipping and guarding up a storm. Behavior that would never be allowed from a German Shepard is just called "cute" in these little ankle biters. Idiots.
Try to remember that it isn't the Chihuahua's fault that it is terrified, aggressive, and unpleasant to be around. He's likely a stressed out, scared mess.
Also bear in mind that your friends mom is likely to blame any fighting/biting on your dog. I speak from experience on this one, having my mom's two friends dogs go at it. Friendships were destroyed that day. I was a little kid, but it made a lasting impression on both me and the dogs. This is the worst kind of "socialization" because it teaches dogs that strangers are randomly violent when you defend yourself.
I agree with the others, you should keep the dogs separated. The mother clearly doesn't know dog body language. It isn't worth the risk to your dog.
If the mom tries to prevent your dog from "attacking" her Chihuahua and gets bit by your dog, it will be Kiyoshi that is blamed and marked with a bite history (and possibly sued, or worse). Even if this woman is not bitten, she could beat Kiyoshi for being "agressive" to her little Poopsiekins, I've seen it happen.
If Kiyoshi kills the Chihuahua then he will be blamed, because he's bigger and stronger, regardless of what the Chihuahua did to deserve it. If your dog can kill a goose (impressive hunting instincts!) it can easily kill a Chihuahua. In my experience, the friends mom will go ballistic if a tiny scratch appears on her little darling (regardless of the chunks missing from your dog.)
This isn't about right and wrong, or good dog and bad dog. It's about keeping your dog safe from idiots who have no business owning dogs.
It's crazy how Kiyoshi went and hunted a goose because Kurama (Jiro) is quite sensitive to the new sounds and I've yet to see him move into "hunt" mode.
I had a similar situation with my mom's ChihuahuaXCorgi (ChiChi) when my shiba (Kiyomi) was a puppy. Whenever I visit my mom, ChiChi get's put in the den. It's the ChiChi's room, where her food, cage and bed are kept normally. There is a doggy door that connects the den room to the rest of the house, so we just close the doggy door in order to keep them separated when we're there. I feel bad that ChiChi gets locked in her room and can't come socialize, but because of the experience she had as a puppy, Kiyomi instantly goes into attack mode if she sees ChiChi.
You can try to encourage your friend's mom to train her Chihuahua but you might also want to consider keeping Kiyoshi in a travel crate while you're visiting. You don't want to keep exposing Kiyoshi to negative dog experiences.
Another thing you can do is bring a clicker and do some individual clicker training with the two dogs. It sounds like you go there often enough. Even if the dog never gets professional training, at least it'll associate you as someone who has established boundaries with interacting with the Chihuahua.
From experience... You don't want a fearful Shikoku. When crap starts going down hill, it starts going down hill fast and it's hard to help them get over it. It's not worth it.
Might also want to crate train the Chi as well . For every time she runs over to Kiyoshi , freaks out and runs away, you should click and praise Kiyoshi for not reacting:). For all we know she's inviting him to play but also is scared shitless he's so big.
I wonder if this book might help in giving you pointers?
You might also want to try taking the Chihuahua out for a walk by herself to expel some of that nervous energy she has, and then possibly graduate it to her walking with Kiyoshi together before they "chill" in the house.
Social manners can still be taught despite how old the dog is. Good luck in building that strong relationship between the two.
Yeah, I have the opposite problem. Kurama won't leave Kurenai alone in the house:). Constantly wants to play, bite, mount, etc. I would restrain him but I'm having a bit of a sick/twisted pleasure watching Kurama serve karmic vengeance to Kurenai.
@Dragonfly To be fair... it's her house and her dog. It is unfair for the chihuahua to be closed in a room in its own house and your pup free to roam the house. I would be bothered if I had to lock up my dogs because one of my kids friends wants to bring his pup over all the time.
I would bring a doggy gate and crate and keep your pup in one area of the house and chill there with it and your friend...
I still stand by what I said earlier about limiting your pups exposure to aggressive dogs. Shikokus are super sensitive dog and can take a turn for the worse if it's limits are pushed.
Take the opportunity of Kiyoshi being at home to clicker train the Chihuahua when you're there. Your personal feelings for the owner's behavior with the dog aside, at least you know the training you invest with the Chi will serve your own interests in the end to having a calmer and more well-behaved Chi for your Shikoku to interact with.
Comments
As for the goose, wow! Impressive little hunter. And he brought it back to you! Will you be hunting with him in the future? What did you do with the bird?
The goose episode sounds really awesome! That's pretty great that he stalks rather than charges. I really like how NK minds work. Any pictures of him and the goose?
(impressive though....geese are pretty tough birds)
Yeah I'd skip trying to have him around the chi. Doesn't sound like it is going to work out. I find them pretty obnoxious dogs, too, though I'm sure there must be some nice ones somewhere.
Shikoku generally like to play rough, so none of that was abnormal and I didn't want to inherently change his playstyle. So my trainers recommended that I start working on "call aways" really early. i.e. send Kiyoshi out to play for a few seconds and then call him away from the play and back to you, where he gets a treat and can then go back out to play. A long line is helpful for this so you can guide him back to you until he gets the idea. For me, the exercise was really helpful to get Jack to reset if he was getting crazy and to let him know when he needs to tone it down a bit. Although I do change the level of crazy I let him get to depending on the dog he's playing with...
Anyway, I'm not an expert, that's just a little something that helped me with my pup.
BTW, in defense of the Chihuahua...a lot of them are monsters for sure, but I've met some really cool ones who were properly socialized.
I think that many Chihuahua owners don't realize that they are dogs and not toys, and think that their snookums is too cute and sweet and tiny to ever harm anyone, despite it growling and nipping and guarding up a storm. Behavior that would never be allowed from a German Shepard is just called "cute" in these little ankle biters. Idiots.
Try to remember that it isn't the Chihuahua's fault that it is terrified, aggressive, and unpleasant to be around. He's likely a stressed out, scared mess.
Also bear in mind that your friends mom is likely to blame any fighting/biting on your dog. I speak from experience on this one, having my mom's two friends dogs go at it. Friendships were destroyed that day. I was a little kid, but it made a lasting impression on both me and the dogs. This is the worst kind of "socialization" because it teaches dogs that strangers are randomly violent when you defend yourself.
I agree with the others, you should keep the dogs separated. The mother clearly doesn't know dog body language. It isn't worth the risk to your dog.
If the mom tries to prevent your dog from "attacking" her Chihuahua and gets bit by your dog, it will be Kiyoshi that is blamed and marked with a bite history (and possibly sued, or worse). Even if this woman is not bitten, she could beat Kiyoshi for being "agressive" to her little Poopsiekins, I've seen it happen.
If Kiyoshi kills the Chihuahua then he will be blamed, because he's bigger and stronger, regardless of what the Chihuahua did to deserve it. If your dog can kill a goose (impressive hunting instincts!) it can easily kill a Chihuahua. In my experience, the friends mom will go ballistic if a tiny scratch appears on her little darling (regardless of the chunks missing from your dog.)
This isn't about right and wrong, or good dog and bad dog. It's about keeping your dog safe from idiots who have no business owning dogs.
Jesse
Another thing you can do is bring a clicker and do some individual clicker training with the two dogs. It sounds like you go there often enough. Even if the dog never gets professional training, at least it'll associate you as someone who has established boundaries with interacting with the Chihuahua.
Good luck!
Jesse
I wonder if this book might help in giving you pointers?
http://www.amazon.com/Click-Calm-Healing-Aggressive-Clicker/dp/1890948209/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388938071&sr=8-1&keywords=click+to+calm
You might also want to try taking the Chihuahua out for a walk by herself to expel some of that nervous energy she has, and then possibly graduate it to her walking with Kiyoshi together before they "chill" in the house.
Social manners can still be taught despite how old the dog is. Good luck in building that strong relationship between the two.
Jesse
I would bring a doggy gate and crate and keep your pup in one area of the house and chill there with it and your friend...
Jesse