"Real Meat" brand air and freeze dried foods

I'm looking to change Kouda's food since I learned the Nature's Variety he's on uses tapioca as it's starch component, and tapioca is a goitrogen. Kouda is borderline hypothyroid (by my judgement, but not of concern to Dr. Dodds, but that's a different topic!) In small amounts, this is probably ok, but as the main starch in his diet, it makes me uncomfortable.

So I've been looking at different foods that don't contain goitrogens, and I came to Real Meat's options. They are a small company in Southern California, and manufacture their products in the USA with meats sourced from USA, New Zealand and Australia. We currently get their jerky treats, which Kouda loves, so we figured their food was worth a try. I bought small bags of both the lamb air dried and lamb freeze dried food online, and the order is to arrive in the next few days.

I searched the forum, and also dogfoodadvisor, and didn't find anything on them. Here is their website - http://shop.realmeatpet.com/Real-Meat-Dog-Foods_c22.htm

1. So what do you guys think of the ingredients? The air and freeze dried formulas have different ingredients and nutrient breakdowns. Here they are:

Air Dried
Ingredients: Lamb, Lamb Liver, Lamb Heart, Lamb Kidney, Pumpkin, Inulin (from Chicory), Vegetable Glycerin, Ground Lamb Bone, Yucca Schidigera(BioAide), Pea Powder, Kelp, Parsley, Rosemary, Sea Salt, Betaine, Choline Chloride, Mixed Tocopherols (Vitamin E Supplement), Pomegranate, Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Sulfate, Vitamin E, Flaxseed, Barley Grass, Yeast Extract(Agrimos), Iron Proteinate, Selenium Yeast, Copper Sulfate, Nicotinic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide (source of iodine), Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Folic Acid.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein (min) 34%
Crude Fat (min) 22%
Crude Fiber (max) 2%
Moisture (max) 15%

Kcals 4300/kg
Freeze Dried
Lamb, Lamb Liver, Lamb Kidney, Carrot, Pumpkin, Peas, Apple, Kelp, Lamb Bone, Green lip mussel, Manuka Honey, Choline Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Iron Sulfate, Vitamin E, Iron Proteinate, Selenium Yeast, Copper Sulfate, Nicotinic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Sea Salt, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide (source of iodine), Riboflavin Supplement, (Vitamin B2), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Folic Acid, Cobalt, Biotin.

Guaranteed
Analysis Crude Protein (min) 37%
Crude Fat (min) 38%
Crude Fiber (max) 4%
Moisture (max) 4%

Kcals 5750/kg
2. Kelp! The ingredients look good to me, but of the research I've done, kelp is sometimes listed as bad for thyroid, and sometimes good.

3. High protein. The NV kibble he's on is 433 calories per cup, Crude Protein (min): 29.0%, Crude Fat (min): 18.0%, Crude Fiber (max): 3.5%. Kouda is 13 months old, so we don't have to worry about any more puppy growth, but I've read that NKs don't need a high protein diet, and may do better on less-than-30% protein. If I wanted to lower the daily protein intake, should I add a premix or other filler to level it out?

Thanks for any advice you can give! :)

Comments

  • Can't really say much about the kibble as I no longer use it, but I still find it funny that so many brands have such high protein content. Most pet dogs should be give around 25%-30% protein, too much could cause weight gain, and growth and digestive issues. The Sibe racing kennel that I got Titan from doesn't even go above 35% for her dogs, and these pups get a heck of a lot more exercise than most any pet gets.
  • My brother's dog did best on Orijen's Regional Red (really high protein content - 38%). He kept weight on and had great energy. He's on a lower quality/protein food now, but needs more supplements to maintainweight and digest properly.

    TK seems to do vest on relatively high protein content (current: 33%) - but maybe it's just the ingredients in the Acana.

    London bloats up like it's his JOB when he's on a food with super-high protein levels. He's adjusted to earthborn (32%) well, but did not do well on other foods like TOTW and Acana or Orijen. I'd prefer a food with a lower content (Natural Balance), but his skin/coat didn't do so well on it.

    I always thought of air-dried and freeze-dried food as supplement or treats, not as the main part of the diet. I would be worried about protein that high.
  • The protein % in the diet means nothing, what matter is the digestibility of the proteins. If these 32% are from eggs, it will all be digested, but say they are from e.g. corn only 50% of will be digested.
    On this page is a short list of some very common protein sources in dog food and their digestibility: http://www.petmd.com/dog/nutrition/evr_dg_principles_of_dog_nutrition
  • @paranoidparrot - thanks for the link! That was a good read. Before I moved I had a great vet who thought our dogs did well on the half raw, half wellness core diet. Our new vet seem good, but started lecturing me intensely about the fact that I feed some raw. It's nice to hear another vet concerned with nutrition!

    @zandrame - the plant species are different, but I would check about the yucca. It is similar enough to cassava (also known as manioc, or yucca and from which tapioca is derived) in its early discovery to have been mixed up with that plant. I don't know if the similarity extends to nutrition content.
  • @Calia it's not like real kibble. It's freeze dried and air dried not baked.

    @zandrame I'm familiar with this product and had Koda on it for a bit when I would go out of town and he was on a raw diet. For obvious reasons, boarding people are not comfortable with raw diets and preparing food. It's a good product. I little pricey, but from a local company (I'm in CA). You may also want to check out Great Life which is another freeze dried kibble that I believe comes out of the same plant. Actually funny thing is they switched the packaging on these two products last year.

    Here's a link to Great Life http://www.doctorsfinest.com/category_s/54.htm
  • Wow, that was a great link on canine nutrition. Even had something I've long been looking for, which is nutritional information on bones. Great resource, even if I don't agree with everything said about feeding bones.

    Also, zandrame, it's timely that you're wondering about the tapioca. I'm talking an herbalism class and we were just covering endocrine issues,and the teacher had warned us about goitrogens.

    I don't really know about the high protein, so can't comment much on that, but will throw this out: one reason I don't feed lamb is that my dogs--all of them--get terrible gas from lamb. It can't be that all dogs do, but most dogs I've had have gassed me out on lamb, so I gave up on it!
  • Thanks for the link @paranoidparrot! I'll copy the digestibility table here. I'm surprised fish is equivalent to soy.

    Egg whites 1.00
    Muscle meats (chicken, beef, lamb) .92
    Organ meats (kidney, liver, heart) .90
    Milk, cheese .89
    Fish .75
    Soy .75
    Rice .72
    Oats .66
    Yeast .63
    Wheat .60
    Corn .54
    @violet_in_seville, good catch on the yucca. It seems really hard to avoid all goitrogens. :( Since it's 9th on the ingredient list it might not be so bad. But I will take note. Thanks.

    @shibamistress, lol at the lamb farts! Kouda's food is lamb now, so I wanted to stick with a familiar protein to start with. He does fart on occasion, usually while sleeping in my lap of course, but I figure that's the least of his problems! They do have a few other flavors we could try.

    @tjbart17, I'm glad you've tried it! If it was good for big Koda, it's good for little Kouda! :D
    Great Life was another brand I looked at, and it's rated well. But I wanted to try to avoid kibbles with grain, and their grain-free formula also unfortunately uses tapioca.

    I found the following lists of good and bad foods helpful:
    Bad - http://www.lowthyroiddiet.com/foods-to-avoid.htm
    Good - http://www.lowthyroiddiet.com/foods-to-eat.htm

    So I'm thinking if I need to add a filler to this food to lower the total protein, I can make a mash of things like carrots, beans, and quinoa. I wonder if he would even eat that!
  • @zandrame Thanks for the info on the tapioca. I did not know that. Keep us posted on your search. I don't feed raw anymore so it's always good to find a new kibble.
  • @zandrame I didn't know about the tapioca either! We don't have thyroid issues that I know about, but we're coming to the end of our Nature's Variety kibble so maybe we'll try the sample pack of these. The ingredients list seems great!
  • I I believe quinoa is a a complete protein so I would leave that out of the mash
  • @cdenney, I'm unfamiliar with designing dog diets, but a complete protein sounds great - why shouldn't it be included? Just too much protein? But if I then reduced the meat content?

    Update - we got the food delivered yesterday. The air-dried is a good kibble substitute, the texture is pretty similar, and nicer than Ziwipeak in my opinion (which is too greasy feeling). The freeze-dried on the other hand is dry and powdery with no consistent shape. I think it's definitely meant to be rehydrated. Kouda got some tonight mixed with mashed carrots and green beans. He liked it. :)
  • Just that if you're adding a filler to lower the total protien having a protien based filler would defeat the purpose, BUT im not sure if dogs are able to digest quinoa the same way we do
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