Socializing Puppy to Gunshots and Other Loud Noises

tmd

I'm interested in socializing my future-puppy-to-be to gunshots and was wondering what advice the community might have on that: what age to start, how close, best way to generate a positive association (treats or something else), and anything special about different calibers since each can have a distinct sound?

Also, along those lines, has anyone tried those sound socialization cds for desensitizing a dog to a variety of sounds (Gunshots & fireworks, Sirens, Children Playing & Screaming, Vet Office, Traffic, Groomer, Airport, Thunderstorms, Kennel, Machines & Tools, Infant crying). Something like this http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DTB748
Any positive or negative experiences to share?

NotoriousScrat

Can't speak to real gunshots, but I can say that constant exposure to violent video games and movies piped through surround sound seems to have left Zim with nothing more than a bit of a start (woke him up) at fireworks and firecrackers going off right in front of the apartment.

shishiinu

I should have a thread somewhere on my method training my Kishus. The basic theory I use is start early and start small meaning start with a cap gun or a .22 cal and start them ASAP. The older they get the harder it's going to be. And use lots of treats so that the pup will associate the gun shot to something positive.

WrylyBrindle

one thing that is critical is that if you pair the sound with a Really Good Thing, you want to make sure the sound comes first, THEN the cheeseburger (fetch ball, etc). The noise means a good thing is coming. If you do it backwards (here have your food! bang bang bang!) then the food predicts scary noise...and you dont want that.

PoetikDragon

Same thing with doing it simultaneously, too. If they happen at the same time (here is food AND noise!) then there is no predictor at all. Order is important.

souggy

Having good nerve is a clincher. Some dogs are just not afraid of gun-shot, no matter how late they were exposed to it. For a lot of breed which are not bred for serious hunting, the earlier the exposure is-- the better.

What I have done is use a small calibre (.22LR) and just took the dog out hunting and shot the critter out of the tree at about 50 to 100 yards while the dog was staring at the critter. I wouldn't use a medium- or high-calibre rifle; or a shotgun in this case until the pup understands .22 equals raining squirrels/birds/cats/whatever.

And make sure the dog is staring at the animal. It's easy to ruin a pup if the dog is not being occupied with the strong prey drive at that precise moment in time. If the dog is not staring at the critter, then the connection gun-shot equals dead animal may not be made.

But before you go out with the dog, clean the rifle in front of the dog and take the rifle (empty, to avoid temptations) with you in the bush while walking with dog off-leash for a few weeks before actually shooting. Some dogs become afraid of the sight of the actual rifle or shotgun itself when they hear it for the first time-- even though they are not afraid of gun-shots from a far-off distance.

lindsayt

When Farrah (Shiba) went to her sport hunting evaluation, she was super keen on the birds and retrieving it was a huge reward, so they had me get her amped up on the bird, then launched it for her to retrieve and then fired a pistol about 30-40 feet away. She couldn't have cared less about the noise since she wanted the bird so bad. I guess their theory was that doing the work was the dogs reward, but in Flyball when we begin box work (it's loud) they trigger the noise and I feed the dog tasty treats, which is also very effective...

I've been playing the "Puppy Sounds" cd for her babies starting at 4 weeks for one, and at 8 weeks for another, and it's been interesting watching their reactions to various noises, seeing which puppy recovers faster or doesn't care. I think the sound exposure at an earlier age is very helpful, but Farrah had never heard gunshots until her eval as an adult, and it was just her temperament not to care about the strange or loud noise.

MapleTwinkie

My dog is not fazed by much. As a puppy, we made it a point to walk him around downtown where there was lots of people, loud construction, horns blaring, jack hammering, cars whizzing by etc.

We wanted him to understand that these are normal noises. He was scared initially but now he's amazing, we bring him to watch firecrackers and it's nothing to him. We didn't reward him for good behaviour because we wanted him to understand that this is his environment, so "get used to it!". They also take cues from you; if you're scared and bothered by those loud noises, or are fearful and anxious they will feel the same too.

I think early and frequent exposure (vs rewarding behaviour) is key.

But i'm a first time dog owner and I think each dog is different. There's been dogs that are fearful from the beginning and continue to be fearful.

tmd

Thanks all for your advice.

It seems like the Sound CD can't hurt as long as the association is positive. Along with that, as long as the sound is the predictor of good things or at worst neutral things, whether its from a CD or an actual gun doesn't seem to matter.

ETA: Oh and start small (or softer), then build up to larger caliber or louder sounds.

shishiinu

Now is this for training a hunting dog or is it more for training a pup to accept everyday noise? Because training methods for hunting dogs is much different then training a pup to deal with everyday noise.

tmd

Well, I live in a rural area where much hunting and target shooting happens near our property, so while it isn't necessarily about training a hunting dog (though I'm not ruling that out), it isn't strictly about training for everyday noise either. Mainly I wanted to make sure my dog can handle hunting season and the random gunshots that can be heard in the area throughout the year.

shishiinu

That being said I will tell you this. All three of my kishus, my rotti, and my lab have all been trained around gun fire and they have no fear as long as we are hunting. When Fourth of July rolls around and the fire works and neighborhood gun fire erupts, the dogs go insane to where we have to kennel them in the garage. So that being said just because a dog is trained around gunfire doesn't mean it will be ok around other gunfire.

I can fire my 44mag right next to my kishus and they will automatically go look to see what I shot but when they hear distant gunfire they go absolutely ape shit with fear.

tmd

That's good to know, I'll have to work on that when the neighbors are shooting. I'll just become the super treat dispenser whenever that happens.

oddball

This brings up a question I wanted to ask. Is there any sort of hearing protection for dogs out there? Or do i just try to make sure that the dog is behind me when i fire. I ask because my .454 hunting revolver is really friggin' loud.

StaticNfuzz

Speaking from some observations around non Nihon field hunters....

I would urge caution for anyone randomly wanting to send off a round and just hope for the best as far as the dog's reaction. Usually there is a particular foundation built before this is attempted….. So important not to do anything that would sour him/her as far introduction to guns. You want the dog excited by gun fire in context to what you want him to do. It only takes one mistake to have a problem on your hands and have a gun shy dog.

Overall trainers pair good things (bird or toy or even food/scent) and have a decent drive to that/those things before introducing gunfire. All good things in training are paired!! Your dog must absolutely associate good things with gun fire to build anticipation in working around it.

It is essential to avoid scary over-caliber on the firepower in the beginning. Stick to small gauge to start or starter pistol. Gun proofing takes time, it can require training + acclimation two miles from the source depending on the dog. It is progression to slightly louder sound and over shorter and shorter distances, with huge proofs on rewards built on drive from lots of early foundation work.

How sensitive a dog will be is part of it's genetic make up but it helps to have a plan of action that builds to success to avoid potential fall out if the dog does not anticipate what's going on. Research it and work with some hunt club professionals to get an idea how to introduce humanely.


Snf


About hearing protection, there are Mutt Muffs. Keep in mind this requires acclimation to wear it and still does not preclude foundation training for working around ammo etc.

tmd

That's great advice, thanks! I'll have to see about some of the local hunt clubs around here to find out how they can help me take a measured approach keeping everything said here.

On the flip side, there is a high likelihood where I live for there to be random gunfire within 3/4 of a mile through trees so the sooner I can make it a predictor of good things the better off we'll be.

Heidi

Sosuke is my dog who is not afraid of any loud noise. He has accompanied me to the shooting range and he's stood right next to people while they fire rifles and shotguns, and it's like nothing is going on. I also have a story posted here somewhere about a time when we were camping and a severe thunderstorm came and almost blew our tent away, and through all that and the thunder and lightning, he just napped. I think it's partially that he was born that way, and then partially good socialization on the part of his breeders (Brad and Jen) and then us after we got him.

Our favourite off-leash spot happens to be close to the firing range, so we can start out where the shots are quiet enough that even the scarediest dog wouldn't notice, then progressively walk closer while we're having outdoor fun. Obviously, not all firing ranges are surrounded by great dog-walking land, but if you could do something like that, that would be great. Assuming it's necessary. You might get lucky with a dog like Sosuke who doesn't care if the sky is falling.

WrylyBrindle

I have Sosuke's sister, Juno, and she is just like him in this regard.

Calia

Something I find odd and funny, Tetsu has always been noise sensitive, generally freaking out during fireworks and thunderstorms. But when we bought the house 3yrs ago, we didn't realize that there was a skeet shooting range about a mile away in the park we take walks in. You can hear the shots from the house and surprisingly enough they don't bother him. Even when we're walking close enough to watch, he still remains calm and is more interested in marking the trees.

tmd

What a great idea, I'll see if there's an outdoor range that has a park or walking path near it. At least then I'd have more options for moving closer and away. I bet the hunting groups in the area have a place they use.

Losech

My neighbor is a retired police officer and has his own personal shooting range on his property. He keeps his shooting skills nice and sharp every Saturday morning. Sometimes he's got a buddy with him.
Juneau (my loud noise phobia dog) has done alright with it so far. She certainly isn't happy but she hasn't freaked out too bad yet. It doesn't phase Sasha. Conker's been trained for hunting, so when he hears gunfire, he looks around for a squirrel falling from a tree.