Hana: updated april 4 (with spam!)
Hi everyone, I know I've been away for more than a month, but now we're back from our trip from Thailand and have picked up Hana! I'll try to break down our experience without too much confusion.
Dec. 1 - We picked up Hana from the airport in Buffalo at 11pm which is a 2 hour drive from Toronto. The pickup was very easy, but she smelled like really stinky poop. It turns out she did some diarrhea from the stress. The border guy was an ass and gave us a little trouble, but eventually let us go, so it wasn't the worst experience ever. As soon as we got home, we HAD to wash her because she had poop all over her feet and stuff, so we took the crate straight to the bathroom, closed the door and opened the crate and let her come out at her own pace. She was very curious and would step out for a bit, look and sniff around, then dashed back in. This went on for another 10 minutes or so, with her coming out for longer periods. My husband and I just sat there letting her smell us, and get to know us, and she eventually let us touch her and pet her, but still nowhere near letting us bathe her. I was about to call it a night, because I didn't expect to actually be able to wash her that night, (it was already past 2am at this point) but with very little struggle, (no real force because she just stood there in the bathtub afterwards) we were able to give her a bath.
The bath itself was not that painful as I thought it would be. She was pretty much frozen the entire time, but tolerated everything. I tried to be as gentle as I could, and the only trouble we got was when we wanted to wash the other side and her feet, and if I tried to nudge her even a little, or touch her feet, she would squirm a bit. We finished her bath, and I towel dried her as best as I could because the blow drier freaked her out, and she was off discovering our home.
She did some pacing, but mostly explored parts of our home. She jumped on our bed, smelling and surveying different areas of our home. Surprisingly though, she responded when I called her, but I mostly let her do her own thing. Eventually at 3:30am, we all went to the bedroom, and went to bed. Hana's spot kept changing from different parts of the room to her crate, but she settled in her crate at the end.
Dec. 2 - Hana let me put a raincoat on her AND her harness. (Thank you @brada1878 and Jen) and we went for a short, extremely rainy walk. She wouldn't poop or pee for a while, and I was getting worried because I knew she had to potty, but eventually I think she finally got comfortable enough to go. The rest of the day was just hanging out and going for short walks. She was eating a little too fast, so I put her food in a kong, and she seemed to enjoy that. She learned to paw at it real fast instead of just licking the hole.
Dec 3 - Walks with Hana are a little challenging because she gets spooked by a lot of things. We have a fair bit of cars going by in our area, and the sound of them driving by REALLY freaks her out. We try to keep the walks short, finishing up as soon as she pottys, but on THIS day, while my husband was walking her, she knocked over this really cheaply made lamp thing in the neighborhood, and she freaked out. She was trying to run away and nipped my husband a bit, but eventually made it home, and went upstairs as soon as her harness was off in her favorite safe area. She wouldn't come down or out of our bedroom even if I called, her, but I think she was hungry so after feeding her kibble by kibble with my hand, and inching towards the door, she finally came down.
Since then, it's been getting a little better... (emphasis on little..) walks have been really painful and I don't know how to make it easier for her because all the sounds in our area seems to really freak her out. I know it's a matter of LOTS of patience and short walks with happy encouragement.. but is there anything else I can add to that to make it easier for her? She was so stressed she wouldn't even eat chicken. (But she did eat her own kibble food... maybe she likes kibble better?)
Dec. 1 - We picked up Hana from the airport in Buffalo at 11pm which is a 2 hour drive from Toronto. The pickup was very easy, but she smelled like really stinky poop. It turns out she did some diarrhea from the stress. The border guy was an ass and gave us a little trouble, but eventually let us go, so it wasn't the worst experience ever. As soon as we got home, we HAD to wash her because she had poop all over her feet and stuff, so we took the crate straight to the bathroom, closed the door and opened the crate and let her come out at her own pace. She was very curious and would step out for a bit, look and sniff around, then dashed back in. This went on for another 10 minutes or so, with her coming out for longer periods. My husband and I just sat there letting her smell us, and get to know us, and she eventually let us touch her and pet her, but still nowhere near letting us bathe her. I was about to call it a night, because I didn't expect to actually be able to wash her that night, (it was already past 2am at this point) but with very little struggle, (no real force because she just stood there in the bathtub afterwards) we were able to give her a bath.
The bath itself was not that painful as I thought it would be. She was pretty much frozen the entire time, but tolerated everything. I tried to be as gentle as I could, and the only trouble we got was when we wanted to wash the other side and her feet, and if I tried to nudge her even a little, or touch her feet, she would squirm a bit. We finished her bath, and I towel dried her as best as I could because the blow drier freaked her out, and she was off discovering our home.
She did some pacing, but mostly explored parts of our home. She jumped on our bed, smelling and surveying different areas of our home. Surprisingly though, she responded when I called her, but I mostly let her do her own thing. Eventually at 3:30am, we all went to the bedroom, and went to bed. Hana's spot kept changing from different parts of the room to her crate, but she settled in her crate at the end.
Dec. 2 - Hana let me put a raincoat on her AND her harness. (Thank you @brada1878 and Jen) and we went for a short, extremely rainy walk. She wouldn't poop or pee for a while, and I was getting worried because I knew she had to potty, but eventually I think she finally got comfortable enough to go. The rest of the day was just hanging out and going for short walks. She was eating a little too fast, so I put her food in a kong, and she seemed to enjoy that. She learned to paw at it real fast instead of just licking the hole.
Dec 3 - Walks with Hana are a little challenging because she gets spooked by a lot of things. We have a fair bit of cars going by in our area, and the sound of them driving by REALLY freaks her out. We try to keep the walks short, finishing up as soon as she pottys, but on THIS day, while my husband was walking her, she knocked over this really cheaply made lamp thing in the neighborhood, and she freaked out. She was trying to run away and nipped my husband a bit, but eventually made it home, and went upstairs as soon as her harness was off in her favorite safe area. She wouldn't come down or out of our bedroom even if I called, her, but I think she was hungry so after feeding her kibble by kibble with my hand, and inching towards the door, she finally came down.
Since then, it's been getting a little better... (emphasis on little..) walks have been really painful and I don't know how to make it easier for her because all the sounds in our area seems to really freak her out. I know it's a matter of LOTS of patience and short walks with happy encouragement.. but is there anything else I can add to that to make it easier for her? She was so stressed she wouldn't even eat chicken. (But she did eat her own kibble food... maybe she likes kibble better?)
Comments
http://www.nihonken.org/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/8014/sachi-big-win-baby.-/#Item_124
I went the route of taking Sachi on longer walks but did it during less busy times of the day really early am, really late at night and a short midday walk. Our walks were an hour/hour and a half just to do a loop around the block. The lesser traffic gave her time to get used to road noise with out it being overwhelming-now I am cool taking her out (and she is happy to) anytime but rush hour because she likes to stop in the middle of the street and this area is known for the worst drivers in the U.S..
I started feeding her after her walks and taking a handful of kibble on the walks with me. When I could tell she was just mentally elsewhere I will drop it and it would make a little audible ping and she would go to inspect. This worked then about 50% of the time, now around 75% (and paired with a command), but better than nothing--also I will if we are at a stop for awhile make a quiet noise as I crouch down as she will know I am coming closer and not startle but also approach for comfort. @sjp051993 has it right find another very calm dog to walk with, everything has gotten better for us since then.
A woman once ran into us on the road with her tibetan spaniel and saw that Sachi was just in her dark place and wanted to meet the dog but was on the defensive so she kept her dog quiet and at a distance so Sachi would just become comfortable. After about five minutes of utter stillness we moved on our separate ways. Next day happened to meet again and this time we were able to have Sachi walk behind the terrier maybe 20 yards before we broke off for home and that really has made a difference. We have had a walk date but Sachi is pretty good on her own.
It seems Hana has made strides in your home walks will happen and be fun but Jen said the magic time line of a week and she will be normal. A week has shown huge improvement, you all are doing great.
I've only had hana here for a few days now, and while our first few walks lasted 30 minutes, our walks now last 1 minute after her scare. it feels like i backpedaled 29 minutes. haha! literally she will just want to go out to potty, then go straight back home. the problem with our area is that there's no real time where it's not that busy with cars. we don't necessarily live right in the heart of the city, but we're by a major road and there's always cars, buses and trucks roaring by. last night, it was literally poop/pee go home, but this morning we went to the end of our courtyard before it started to get too much for her and we headed back. walks with another calm dog is an interesting idea. i will have to look into it.
it's like night and day with how she is at home and how she is outside. at home, she'll hang out with us on the couch, or by the stairs, whatever she feels like, she's started to get a little more playful. - she even got so excited she kind of... straddled my arm and kind of humped it a little - but outside she's completely wild. she can hardly focus, won't take treats, and will try to find her way home, but it's weird because she doesn't really know where our home is. or maybe it's because she's so freaked out she can't focus on following the scent back to our home. either way, i know it's something i have to be very patient with. i hope she doesn't get fat until she begins to enjoy walks. hahah
she's definitely more attached to me than my husband. she'll listen to me 90% of the time on recall, and my husband probably 20%, but he doesn't work everyday, so when he's home, he works on bonding and recall with her, and earning her trust. he also works on going for shorter walks more often.
i think our biggest milestone was hana joining us on the couch and falling asleep there while we watched tv. she's definitely improving.
@thegela treats and a hungry kai. I like @hinata23 idea. How does Hana do in the car?
i'm going to drive her to the park tonight and we'll see how that goes.
All that aside, I'm writing to encourage @thegala to keep trying! It sounds like you're in a place where you're able to keep Hana (excellent name, btw) safe while you help her acclimate. And I wanted to share that, during our few days with Yu-chan, I started using a technique for urban walk training that I think would have worked over time. Basically, I would use treats to draw Yumi's focus away from the many distractions and anxieties of Outside, and toward delicious liver fist. She would walk toward the treat, rather than standing still and refusing to move past whatever was scary/interesting/not-the-direction-she-wanted.
First, at home, I would attach the leash to her harness, then praise her and make sure we both were calm, and then start out. Once she'd had a chance to acclimate a bit, I would show her a treat, let her watch me tuck it in my palm, and then trot ahead of her or alongside her while keeping the treat sniffable and the lead short. A little walking, then a reward. When she froze or got distracted I would say "Let's go!" and show the treat, then trot again. I would do this for a block or two tops, then take a break to deliver the treat along with calm praise (and to wait for a Walk signal). My hope was that this would reward Yumi for focusing on me and on walking, rather than on everything else. In the short term it got us to and from the safer, grassier places where she could relieve herself more comfortably. (At least, it helped. Still, she had her limits and our walks were tough.)
Obviously this would work less well for less food-motivated kai. I think too, for recently relocated kai, not even treats will automatically override the weirdness of the city. They're such curious, sensitive creatures... I think the strategy of taking it slowly and gently makes a lot of sense.
And this is why I've come to think that grass delivery services may be serious game-changers for urban kai ken kin. Has anyone tried this? We are planning to do this next time, at least during potty-training, and we hope it will take the pressure off a bit. (We'll do it in addition to, not instead of, walks and hikes and dog parks.) Porchpotty.com seems to be national. I haven't used them, but there are a few places like this that will deliver fresh sod and remove the used on a subscription basis. I like this idea because it separates walk training from potty training and also allows less-stressful elimination. In theory.
Anyway, sending lots of calming, encouraging vibes to Hana as you settle in together, @thegela.
-(also) Hana
-On the "grass delivery services"... I'm not sure that would necessarily work with dogs like the Kai. Most dogs go the bathroom when they sniff something in the grass (other dogs) and would usually go in the same place. If you're replacing that patch of grass all the time, not sure how the dogs will respond to that... Could create more stress. I would make the transition as less confusing and complicated as possible.
The method of trying to distract a dog with food while in a busy part of the city might have worked, like you said, "over time" (but it could just be the dog getting use to walking in that environment), but with rehomed Kai being so sensitive a less stressful process would have been more appropriate. Like most NK, the Kai shouldn't be forced to do or be somewhere that makes them feel uncomfortable or scared. We kind of have to work around their fears and figure out how to help them out little by little. Brad always told me to "set your dog up for success!" Don't make them do something you know it's going to turn out bad or not work out. It all about little victories. EX: When ChoCho was scared of being on the main floor we let her explore for a few minutes and right before she started to get worked up we'd praise her and take her back into our room. Next time we tried it for 2 extra minutes. Small victories.
Since Brad's Kai live in an urban area... the city is probably WAY too overwhelming for them, with or without treats. I remember trying to feed ChoCho (a rehomed Shikoku) treats to distract her from things she was scared of and she would take it (because it was food and she's a major foodie), but continued to be stressed. She was very smart about it. "Take the treat. Continue my thing." Starting slow in your own neighborhood or a near by park (not too many people, quiet, tons of new smells) would have been the way to go, and even that in Hana and Sachi's case is still a bit overwhelming for them.
@thegela and @cdenney are doing awesome! I'm glad the forum is helping them survive the first few days of owning a rehomed NK and hopefully has given them hope that it can be done and that it's worth it
The porch potty sounds interesting. Sachi is weird cuz she will just drop wfere ever to go, no sniffing, no real regular spot as of yet, I'm thinking it might work?
Here's something of a backwards step though - she started to poo on our door mat.
She first peed on that doormat when we were getting her ready for her morning potty walk at 7am, but we usually go out at 6:30 am, so I thought maybe it was because we missed her "potty time" and she relaxed a little too early right before we went out. She "almost" did the same thing next morning, but we got her out just in time. Then TODAY, my husband gets home from work early to discover she pooed on that mat!
We're definitely getting rid of that doormat that's acting like a pee pad for her, and maybe crating her when we're not home to re-potty train her. So strange.
Does anyone else have thoughts as to why she might be doing this, or how advice on how to change her habits?
Also dogs don't generalize well and stress makes them more confused or forgetful ie. What was the norm in the hold house is not related to/remembered/retained once in the new enviornment. Back track on the potty training, use of a crate is a good idea. Keep to a strict schedule. It seems Kai in particular are extremely sensitive to change.
Snf
When I first got Bea (she was 6 and lived in a kennel a her life in the desert), she was scared to death of cars, manholes, everything. I just ignored her and not make a big deal of it (but make sure I am holding tightly onto her leash). She eventually got over it, and is fine now. Though she still prefers to walk around the metal things that are on sidewalks.
@StaticNfuzz yeah I thought she was completely empty after her potty, but maybe not? Also that makes sense about Kai. Lots of people have written about Kais sensitivities to change and stuff, so we'll probably retrain her and stick to a strict schedule. Thank you!
@ttddinh that is so cute how Beat walks around metal things on the sidewalk. My dogs in the past have always jumped over the metal part that joins the ground and the bridge whenever we walked over one, and they always avoid and walk around or jump over little puddles that accumulate after the rain on the dips of the sidewalk.