Yamabushi no Orry (Sept 2015)
  • As I mentioned in my intro, we recently had the privilege of bringing home a Nio x Ayu pup. We named him Orry, which has a few meanings, but the one we were drawn to is "Bear." This especially stuck after seeing a few pics that Brad and Jen posted on Facebook...the pups definitely looked like little cubs. After having Orry for over a week now, his name seems very fitting. He has an even-keeled way about him but he's a very brave little guy when he needs to be. The other night he had no problem standing his ground and confidently meeting a Great Dane that approached out of the dark from my neighbor's yard, which I was very impressed by.

    Anyway, so far Orry has been an exceptional pup. House training, friendliness with both people and dogs, walks, etc. have all gone very well. We are extremely stoked to have him! The hardest thing so far has definitely been the hard puppy biting that my two young daughters are not so fond of. We've tried lots of re-direction, yelps, and ignoring him, but I think time will be the main thing that helps this....he's still so young and he does seem to learn well. If anyone has a magic formula to solve this, I'd love to get some advice. It's especially difficult when he gets ultra hyper for short periods of time and is hard to calm down. Like I said though, he's overall pretty calm for a pup and we couldn't be more thrilled with him. He's doing great.

    Here are some pics of Orry. Some are a little dark and out of focus, but I think these show his look pretty well. It was so hard to get a straight on shot, so my daughter had to help on the first one.

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    First day of harness training during a typical Montana winter day. He loves the snow!

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    For some reason, he looks a little "Nio-ish" to me in this pic, although it's a bit blurry.

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    When he sleeps, he's out!

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    Thanks to Brad and Jen and their Yamabushi Kennel for such a great pup!
    Post edited by MontanaKai at 2015-09-24 16:01:54
  • Cute pup!

    I must say I am a little uneasy by the photos of a Kai off leash in the street, after having so many bolt and get lost recently...
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
    Post edited by PoetikDragon at 2012-11-27 01:16:41
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3012
    Such a adorable pup! :)

    Love the brindle on him too.

    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • Orry is awesome!

    What I tell my daughter is to give him a Yes- as in no, you cant bite my hands/toes, etc, you should bite THIS- and stick a toy/chewy etc right in front of him. If the yelping isnt working, dont do it anymore. Sometimes it just makes everything more exciting and hyper. (or in the case of my husband, an unconvicning actor, the dog just doent buy it- "really? you say that hurt you? You didnt *sound* serious..." munch) I am fortunate to have 3 other dogs for Matsu to practice bite inhibition on, BUT...I still spend QUIET time letting him softly mouth my hand and giving him information. (this is not for kids! For the dog's clarity- "no mouthing kids" needs to be blacking and white. this is just a Matsu and me quiet-time activity. not a crazy-time activity.) If he is mouthing softly, I speak to him softly and rub his gums even. If he presses hard, I tell him - AH! and he'll usually stop and look at me and I let him mouth my hand gently some more. After a few minutes, I offer him a rope toy, or a puppy chew bone and transfer him over and he'll relax and chew that. (for the duration of his puppy attention span, anyway!)

    Another simple game, for kids, is to teach "kisses". An easy way to to this is to rub a little butter on the kids palms and fingers and have them holding their fingers together, palm open. Call him over to lick the butter on their hands and say Kisses, good boy! Good Kisses! He will WANT to lick, not bite. When he seems about done licking, direct him into some other play (ie. dont just watch him stop licking and see what he wants to do next- in that moment where the pup thinks "what do I do? I dont know, I guess I'll do ....THIS!" you suggest any non-biting game, so he does Kisses! and then Ball or a walk or something. He needs to see that Kisses is it's own thing, a good thing, and isnt part of Chomping, which is something else and isnt allowed.

    He will need to chew stuff badly for several months as he teethes, so think of it that you are teaching "what do i do when my mouth feels this way?" and establishing a default choice for him. Protocol!

    When we got Juno, she liked to play rough pouncing and 'attack' biting, jumping at my face if i was sitting. Ending play can be very effective- standing up Game Over, but when she took advantage of opportunities, so I did finally have to take a cue from my older dog's book and roar at her NO! like I REALLY meant it (and its how i felt getting bit on the nose in that moment) and she understood and toned things down. Take it out on your plushy toys, pup, because no matter how much I love you and how cute you are, that is a game we will not play! Puppies need reminders, once you teach them something, (make sure they know it first! not fair to 'remind' them of something they dont understand) so expect to continue to redirect him onto toys, anticipate if he seems like 'this is when he gets bitey', and try to appreciate that he stopped biting more quickly this time after, or wow, he is using thebone more ("Youget what you pet" and "catch him being good" are important phrases at our house. If I see the pup chewing his bone, especially when noone told him to- he just chose it- I go over and give him enough loving to let him know I think hes a *really* good & smart boy, but not so much attention that he leaves the bone completely and refocuses on me. Its a fine line, which is why it's a science AND an art! I want him to know that relaxing with a good bone is AOK!
  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    CUTIE!!

    Yeah... we got bitten a lot during Goro's first few weeks... It was painful and we still have a few marks!

    We did a few things one of them was putting a treat (we used kibble) in our hand and closing our hand in a fist around it. If he bit at my hand I would correct him with "A-AH" and say "Kiss". He would bite 10 times and give 1 lick and when he did I would praise him with a very happy "good boy" and give him the kibble in my hand. After a couple of days of this (painful) exercise he was able to give licks on command. It did not eliminate biting completely, but he figured out that biting gets him a "A-AH" and licking get him a reward. Another thing that we realized what not to try to play with him when he was super excited from playing with ChoCho... he just wanted to transfer that energy to his month and my legs. I know you shouldn't run away because they will just think you're playing, but I ran up on chairs and the couch a lot! hahahaha He was a monster...

    Overall puppy biting is a pain (literally). It will pass, but it's important to establish rules when they are young.
    Post edited by Hinata23 at 2012-11-27 12:30:05
  • @Hinata23 Haha, that made me laugh about running from Goro as a pup and jumping up on the couch. My girls keep doing that and although I tell them not to for the reason you mentioned, I can't say that I haven't been tempted to do the same. I definitely think he'll get it, but you're right, rules are pretty important when it comes to biting! We've definitely noticed that this behavior is very much elevated after play with another dog, so I know what you're saying about not playing with Goro after his play with ChoCho....we'll most likely implement this rule too. Thanks!

    @WrylyBrindle Thanks for all of the suggestions! These are very helpful. I've already noticed after a week of redirection that the duration of his bitey period has shortened. It's pretty much down to his hyper spurts, usually in the am, and after he's played with another dog. The yelps worked at first, but like your husband, he especially stopped buying it with me. I think he started to think it was a game...not good! He's probably a little young for "Leave It" but surprisingly he seems to respond to it when he's locked on to our pant legs, but only when he thinks I have a treat in my hand. I'm afraid he's sort of a smart little pup (or maybe Kai are just smarter than the dogs I'm used to), which is good and bad, lol.

    @poeticdragon Yeah, I hear what you're saying about the off leash thing. However, although that looks like a street, it's more like our driveway. We live at the end of a cul-de-sac and don't really have any traffic. I read about the missing Kai and their tendency to bolt before getting our pup, so I'm aware of this issue. In fact, this is why I plan to do as much off leash training at a young age as is possible. Orry will be my hiking companion, and I hope he'll adjust to being able to do this both on and off leash. I don't want to him to grow up having only spent outside time on a leash. My fear is that there will inevitable be a time when he's outside without a leash, and I don't want him to "freak out" because he's never experienced it before. Instead, I'm hoping that by training him young he'll maintain his composure in these situations. I'm realistic though, and if he shows a tendency to be a "bolter" we'll adjust. In talking with Brad, it sounds like both Nio and Ayu are pretty good off leash so I'm hoping this was passed down. Trust me, the last thing I want to do is lose this pup...I've already grown quite attached.
  • My female kai Juno is an off leash hiking dog, it can be done! Talk with me anytime about it... as you are doing, practice early in life, stack the odds in your favor ridiculously with training and always giving great attention to auto-check ins- when he comes to you on his own idea, you will go a long way to reaching his potential. We have lately been training Juno with coming to me to be leashed, (as at trailheads or summits) so that THAT isnt the end of the world to her either. "Come!" vs "Leash!"- she does the same thing, but "come" is frequently "come here and see me" then I release her back to play/hike.
  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    @MontanaKai Totally agree with what @WrylyBrindle said! I used that technic for when Goro found a shoe/sock/remote/book to play with. I would calmly grab one of his chews/toys (you don't want them to think you're going to start the chase game. Don't make a big deal out of it) and trade him. It's a good way to practice "drop it".
  • MirkaMMirkaM
    Posts: 1248
    Welcome :)!
    Kai will lay down its life to protect its master.
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    Kennel Gekkoo No: http://gekkoonoen.webs.com/index.htm
  • @WrylyBrindle Awesome. Great attention to auto-check ins is a really good tip. I've so far only been rewarding when he comes after being called. I definitely may hit you up for some more ideas as he grows and we venture out. I've ordered a Tagg GPS so that should help for a worst case scenario. I'm not sure if all puppies do this, but so far, Orry follows me very well outside. People have even commented that they're shocked by watching this...I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this behavior will continue to some extent. I know it will change some when his prey drive kicks in.
  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    Oh Orry is so cute!!! What a Nio face!! When Kilbun gets excited, he likes to jump and tear my hair from its scalp. Definitely a big no no. I just stood up, left and ignored him. He does it (less often) now. As for off-leash training, my other dog is horrible at off-leash (I don't even attempt with Kaiju because we live in the suburbs with roaming rabbits), but my hub wanted Kilbun to be an off-leash dog. So, when we go on walk, I carry his favorite toy (a squeaky ball) and everytime he runs too far off, I squeak the toy, and he comes running back and then treat. Sometimes, we play hide and go seek. Where we would hide, squeak the toy, then let him find us, then treat. @wrylybrindle, you said to treat when Juno comes back and checks in, so do you just let her be until she comes back by herself? Or do you leave her on a long line?
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Posts: 4055
    Oh holy crap he is frickin' adorable!! I can't get over it. What a looker! Oh my....

    @MontanaKai I have a 3 1/2 year old male Kai who has been off leash since he was four months old. He would never bolt, and I don't worry about him. My parents have a 4 year old female Kai mix who is great off leash. She's a hunter and will go off a bit, but always finds her way back.

    I have a 7 month old female who feels like she never has to listen to me. She stays on leash. I know that everyone says that we should keep our Kais on leash, but I'm not sure where they got that reputation in the US, from one breed line or breeder? The fact is they are hunting dogs, and are meant to be off leash working with humans. I think that it's definitely do-able. Even though my little monster is horrible, I'm sure she will be able to hike with me off leash someday. I just haven't worked with her enough.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3012
    Tag GPS is great just in case. :)

    I gotten these ID tag for Saya and Bella I like them as they're attached to the collar can be put on harness too.
    http://www.boomerangtags.com/store/list.php?A=collars

    This is how the ID looks I just drew over my phone and address.. hehe
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    I figure they'd hold up better if the dogs go into the woods then the dangling type tags as it might get stuck on a tree or bramble..

    Saya my shiba does well off leash, but I've been working on it pretty early it was long line at first when I did chores and couldn't watch her she enjoyed dragging it around and exploring. I eventually worked up to some off leash time once her response was better on recall.

    Be sure to work some on recall daily make it fun. I love hide in seek game Bella loves doing it.

    I seen this dvd recommended for working on recall not sure if it's good I really nee get it to see..
    http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=dtb810p

    Teaching command leave it, drop it is good in case the dog is going to eat some animal poop or gotten something. Coarse sometimes it's too late.. :\

    Saya dropped a thing of deer poop she was off leash walking in the trails she was behind a bit sniffing and I saw her pick up something so I said drop it. Luckily she did and she coarse got a dog treat for doing it.

    I use fish fudge, string cheese, dehydrated meat, ziwipeak dog food for recall treats. I try rotate so it's a mix of it or something different each time..

    Each dog is different on what they consider high value in rewards.

    I have a squirrel pelt and also a flirt pole and Saya gets to play with that as a reward too.

    Saya is food motivated so treats works much better for her recall reward.

    I live in the country so I have decent bit of space to practice it. Shiba aren't really good off leash due to their independent nature and ability to have shiba selective hearing.

    I'm glad both parent's do well off leash maybe that will help.

    I'm fine with working off leash, but be sure an collar and id tag is on in case something happens.

    I sometimes take collar off for pictures and then once done I put it back on.
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    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    Orry looks very happy. That first pic (and last pic) is super cute.

    I'm so used to the puppy biting thing I don't really notice it, but I know how hard it can be to manage around kids. Everyone already gave good input, so I don't have much to add. I will say that the way I deal with it with our dogs is to just leave if they mouth me. So they learn that if they put their mouth on "dad" he leaves. This seems to work pretty well as the mouthing is typically an attention seeking behavior and if the bite make the attention go away, the pup learns that it's not working.

    About him having a little puppy zoomie freak-out. When he gets that way and is being too nuts, pick him up and put him in his crate with a chew or something. He'll probably pass out - like with a child - it's probably a sign he needs a nap.

    Keep the pics coming! :o)

    PS: RE: the great dane... Orry was probably like "psst... you don't scare me, I used to beat up on a CO when I was younger!" ;o)

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  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    I should add Nate ( @MontanaKai ), you met our dogs. They're not exactly polite... So maybe you shouldn't take my advice. LOL
  • @brada1878 haha, yeah the great dane didn't seem to phase him at all. The funny thing is, the only time Orry has really perked up and barked was when I showed Samantha the video that I took on my phone of Luytiy wanting to eat me. Orry got up right away from a sleep and was very interested in what he was hearing...he knew that sound from somewhere! I'm very glad he got to be around a big dog like a CO. He seems so calm and confident when big dogs greet him, which I really like.

    Considering how many dogs you have, I'd say they were really well behaved in our meeting. The only one I can honestly remember really trying to get my attention was Kishin. It was in a playful way though so I didn't mind at all. He's a super cool dog.

    I'll definitely get some more pictures up as Orry grows. Next time I'm going to get some help from our friend who is a photography. She has a very nice camera...these were taken with my phone.

    @Saya Those tags are great. We have a little shop in our town called Hattie Rex that just opened, and they make custom tags just like that. We bought one for Orry, but it's a little big for him right now. Thanks for the dvd link!

    Thanks all for the helpful training suggestions!
  • I started Juno on a long line at a few months old. She wore a harness and the line at first was a cotton clothesline- veyr long and very light. She could explore, and naturally wanted to follow me and Reilly, and to stick with the group. The line ensured success and no loss. Later she graduated to a bright orange line by Permatack- this line is heavier than the clothesline, but visible and doesnt pick up burrs or soak up water, so its ideal for forest training.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1755945340571&set=a.1664606777164.80079.1297085320&type=3&theater

    I recall her, and train her to "come," "wait," and 'follow' commands: "This Way!" and "Let's Go!" I meniton the auto check in because it is so easy to take it for granted, or to say "yeah but Simon Didnt Say"- when in actual fact anytime the dog does something you want to see again, reinforcing it is the most powerful way to ensure you WILL see it again! So, when we are in the woods to this DAY, and Juno breaks off her hunting action to come say hi to me, she gets pats and talk 100% of the time and a variable small food reward as well. (Reilly will play me for the snacks, but Juno isnt a pest about it.) Remember that a variable reinforcer maintains the surprise factor and is the most powerful tool in R+ training.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3501993950695&set=a.1664606777164.80079.1297085320&type=3&theater

    When I felt Juno had earned my trust time and again I graduated her to her blaze orange collar and bell, and retired the long line. With the bell I can hear her, which is important to my serenity :) as we go along. I am comfortable with her out of sight briefly, but not out of earshot. And I dont like to take her off leash near roads, trailheads, junctions or houses. She has been a terrific little hiking dog (and a superb scrambler!)- We hike off leash for an hour each morning in the National Forest, and longer on weekends, so she has lots of practice!
  • Gorgeous pup!
  • CarabooACarabooA
    Posts: 551
    So cute!! Orry looks great!

    @WrylyBrindle - I kept meaning to ask you the name of your leash again - Kunai is due for one :o) We plan on ordering one for him as he is a lil like Mika in the "huh, did you say something to me?" when we are out walking/hiking... lol
    What day is it?
    Why, it's Today....
    Ah, my favorite day!

    PrettyKi11-13-12 OutsidePlease11-13-12-1Mirraheartssnow
    Kitora (Kai Ken), Kunai (Kai Ken) and Mirra (Siberian Husky/Border Collie)
  • @WrylyBrindle I checked out the Permatack leads and I can see why you like them. Do you know approximately what length Juno's bright orange one is? You may have said this somewhere already but I think I missed it.

    Juno looks like such a great dog. It sounds like you've put in a lot of time with her....that's awesome. I love the idea of using a variable food reward by the way. I've been using the same treats with Orry for the past week and I never thought to change it up yet. I could tell he was much more receptive when I first starting using them. It makes sense...the surprise factor! Thanks for the tip.

    I believe that's a picture of Matsu on your signature line. He looks awesome! Can't wait to see more of Orry's brother.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3012
    So lucky you two have pup from same litter.

    I wish Saya's siblings were on the shiba forum would been nice to see how they grown up looks and personality.. I only met one of Saya's brother he was vocal pup. hehe

    I love Nihon ken pups hope to see more pictures. :)

    Saya was mouthy as a pup, but now she doesn't mouth and if she does it's soft, but not often it's only when she greets my mom she gets over excited and happy to see her.
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    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • I think I bought the 25 foot line but cut it into a 15 and a 10-

    re: variable rewards- sometimes its diff treats, but its also diff amts of treats. So 100% of the time they get my attention, happy talk and pats, 95% of the time they get a small treat- like 1 little zukes mini. But once a walk or so, randomly, they get a repeat delivery of one, another and another zukes mini, before I say "Okay, Let's go!" and release them. In this way, they also stick around and give you eye contact and dont just watch the hand get the treat and blast off again, because there *might* be an extra treat coming. When they hear "Okay, Let's go" the treats are done, and YAY! I can go back to sniffing & hiking!

    Another tip is to build-in a collar touch - so you call them, they come and maybe sit if you require it, but as the treat is coming (and later before the treat comes) while you are giving a quick pat, touch and gently handle the collar. When hes eating the treat, let it go. This gets them used to you taking their collar and prevents the "I'll come *this* close to see if you have treats/grab the treat and bolt away." If you practice this in your recalls, it sets you up really well for when you have to call him and leash him, he wont spook that you have his collar or reach near his head. We may have to do this quickly in an emergency someday and nothing is worse than the dog flciking away or panicking.

    In addition, whenever you call him and its a really great performance, like you call him away from a distraction or a danger- JACKPOT REWARDS! :D
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3012
    Nice post.

    At puppy class trainer sent home work for owners one was getting the puppy used to having collar grabed.

    I worked with Saya and Bella with it and it's worked well.

    My neighbor's lab/mastiff mix is very dodgey she won't let me pet her.

    She dodges almost like she thinks I'm going to hit her.

    Her owners can't really control her or get leash on her easily when she is off leash.

    It's sad.

    It makes me happy I worked with the dogs and they come to me or doesn't flee from me if I come over to pet them or put leash on them.

    I hope things work out with him.

    Puppies grows up too fast I miss how small and silly Saya was.
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    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • Saya still has the sillies! she's a super dog and very cute!
  • These are extremely helpful tips. I'll definitely be working the touch on the collar as I noticed Orry already likes to play "catch me" when he sees I have the leash and I start reaching for his collar to get it on. I would certainly prefer this to be a seamless transition, especially if we're in a stressful situation.

    The good news is that I found a really good 5 week puppy course for Orry to take. Bozeman is a pretty pet oriented community and it sounds like the trainer knows her stuff...she apparently has some popular books out (one specifically about hiking w/dogs!!) so we're excited to get going. I've grown up with dogs my whole life but it's been quite some time since I've raised a pup. The course should be nice refresher.

    The other good news is that Orry's biting was less today than yesterday and yesterday was less than the day before...we're liking this trend. Maybe it's because he loves his toys so much, like this one, lol:

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    Post edited by MontanaKai at 2012-12-09 23:05:41
  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    orry--ur so cute!! what a lovebug
  • So I had to post some updated photos of Orry. A couple of things about these pics. We've had a couple of white-out blizzards in Montana in the past few days (finally) and all of these shots were taken during one of them. The lighting is incredibly bright, so much so that you can't even see the border of the photos. This is simply how they came out since Orry is completely surrounded by fresh, very white snow. With that said, I thought they turned out kind of cool in a unique way.

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    Love the intense stare.

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    It's rare to find Orry outside without a good amount of snow on his noes like in the above photo...I think he actually enjoys it.

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    He really did his best to pose for the "above the fireplace" pic, lol.

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    Showing his deep love of the Montana winter!
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3012
    Love the pictures. I think the whiteness really made them nice almost intentional.. hehe

    Orry is growing up nicely.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • CarabooACarabooA
    Posts: 551
    Cute!!! Love the snow pics!
    What day is it?
    Why, it's Today....
    Ah, my favorite day!

    PrettyKi11-13-12 OutsidePlease11-13-12-1Mirraheartssnow
    Kitora (Kai Ken), Kunai (Kai Ken) and Mirra (Siberian Husky/Border Collie)
  • I *LOVE* the last one!

    Orry looks great!
  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    I love these pics! I love orry!
  • Wow he looks great! Really really cute! He is going to be a stud when he gets bigger.
    photo 10428883_10202259399228531_564340254_n_zps82bfd9ba.jpg
  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    He reminds me a ton of Ayu :)
  • @WrylyBrindle Thanks for the off leash tips! Ana and I have been working on this with Akuma. We have a long way to go but he's getting there.

    @MontanaKai and his brindle looks like it will be really nice! Glad he's biting less and has been such a good pup!
    photo 10428883_10202259399228531_564340254_n_zps82bfd9ba.jpg
    Post edited by rafatturi at 2012-12-10 13:59:55
  • What a cutie! Can't wait to see what he grows to be.
    Snf
  • @WrylyBrindle I love the last pic too! I wish it were in better focus, but it really captures this "thing" that he likes to do...nose up with eyes closed and very relaxed...just taking it all in. It's a cool sight.

    @Hinata23 Yes, he reminds us a lot of Ayu too. There are certain expressions that seem pretty Nio-ish, and he seems to be a nice mix of both, but I think you're right in that at this age he's showing a little more of an Ayu look. It will be really interesting to see him develop. I got to meet both Ayu and Nio in person and they're both incredible looking (and super nice temperaments too)!

    @rafatturi Thanks! he's definitely a little stud in our opinion, and seems to know it...he really eats up all the attention he gets when we're out, lol. His brindle is really nice. It's hard to tell from the pics because of the coloring, but it's not quite as red looking in person as it is in the last 3 pics....it's really more blonde. Orry is very dark where he's dark and very light (blondish) where he's light, if that makes any sense. I really like this strong contrast on Kai.
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Posts: 4055
    The pics are great!! Orry is one very handsome pup!!
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    Orry looks awesome! I can't wait for the chance to take Ren to some real snow, Orry looks like he's having a blast in it. That last picture says it all :)
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
  • Thanks everyone! This is a little off topic, but does anyone happen to know the best size for a Kuranda Standard Bed for a Kai? I ordered a medium for Orry because of the company's weight chart (medium=40-55pds), but when it showed up I thought it looked tiny. I'm thinking I'll return it and get a large.
  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    We use the medium for Goro and he's pretty big. It also fits perfectly in the crate. I think large is too big. Maybe they sent you the wrong size.
  • @Hinata23 Thanks. If it fits Goro, then a medium should definitely work for Orry. I've gathered from the forum that he's a pretty good sized Kai. I hadn't actually put the bed together yet, and was just judging by the fabric so maybe that's why it seemed so small. I called the company and the sales guy told me that their size chart is misleading (of course, why would they make it accurate??) and that I'd need a large. Maybe he was just trying to upsell me though since the bigger one is more expensive. Thanks again for your help.
    Post edited by MontanaKai at 2012-12-11 18:10:53
  • tjbart17tjbart17
    Posts: 4055
    A medium should be fine.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    @MontanaKai - Thos pics are really cool. I LOVE taking pics of Kai in the snow as the refraction creates the perfect light to show their brindle.

    Jen is gonna email you RE: bed sizes, she ordered them originally so she knows the sizing.

    About the "chase me" game - whatever you do, don't chase him. I would hold a treat out and ask him to come to you, then hold his collar and leash him. Give him the treat while you grab is collar.

    ----
  • EidenEiden
    Posts: 102
    Orry is a very cute puppy *_* I like very much your pictures ! It's original not to see anything but Orry !!
  • Kuma123Kuma123
    Posts: 825
    Love the snow pictures! Orry is a beautiful pup :)
    My goal is to be as good a person as my dogs think I am!
  • @brada1878 Thanks Brad. I received the email from Jen, and she pretty much confirmed what the others said about the medium working fine for adult Kai. Thanks too for the advice on the "chase me" game. He's seems to be pretty good with me when it comes to this, however, he definitely likes to push it with Samantha. He starts class next Wednesday, so that should help.

    Yes, snow pics seem to be the way to go when photographing Kai. Do you have snow down there yet? I'm looking forward to seeing some pics of Jaaku and hearing about his personality. I've seen a few on FB...he looks really cool! It will be fun keeping track of this litter as they grow.
  • i'm in love!
  • The adventures continue with Orry. He's a true companion and loves to be outdoors, especially on top of the world!

    IMAG0362

    IMAG0358 2
    On the way up....checking back on me to make sure I'm keeping up, lol.

    IMAG0347
    Forgive the slanted horizon, the photo was taken looking downhill.

    IMAG0368


    IMAG0366
    Once again, Orry is showing that he's simply too cool to look directly at the camera! lol.
    Post edited by MontanaKai at 2013-01-02 18:22:20
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3012
    Love the pictures! Looks like a very nice place to take walks. :)
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • Orry looks so great! and he's a good hiker just like his brother! :)
    BEautiful there in MT!
  • Yes, MT is awesome! I feel pretty lucky to have spent the majority of my life here.

    @WrylyBrindle Orry is a very good hiker. I'm glad Matsu is too! I think Nio and Ayu are as well, so they must've inherited some good hiking genes. I thought he was a little young to go at first based on what I've read about puppy development, but I discussed it with two different vets, and both gave me the "green light." Essentially, they both said to keep the distances relatively short and not allow him to run down steep hills yet. Apparently, the concern with hiking with young dogs is more geared toward the large breeds, and especially those with known developmental issues. I'm glad I asked though, because I think it's been extremely good for his socialization. It makes hiking much more fun too!
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    Orry looks awesome and Ren & I are super jealous of your snowy mountains! The snow really brings out their coats too, he looks great! How'd he do with his recall? Did he do the "come close but stay just out of reach" or did he come right up to you?
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
  • @cezieg Thanks! His recall has been really good overall, although it's still not as consistent as I'd like. It seems like he goes through phases--one week his recall is exceptional and the next it's just average. I think consistency is key so that's my goal. So far I'm just happy that he's never gone through a bad recall phase. Although when other dogs are around, I will say getting him to come is difficult. His drive to go play with them is very high.

    When we're out, he's never had a problem coming right up to me. I think rewarding auto check-ins, a really helpful tip given by @WrylyBrindle above, has made a huge difference. When we're hiking, he'll hang back or go in front a short distance, but he always comes back to me to check in without me calling him. I've been rewarding this behaviour with treats, and I definitely think he's getting the idea.

    I've still been using a combination of on and off leash on each hike. Coming down back the trail, for instance, I'll often put the leash on to help keep in check his instinct to run downhill. Switching up the leash seems to work well for him overall.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    He looks great! I wish I lived in MT, I love that area. I'm envious.

    Hiking him on leash and off leash is really smart, I know I've ended up with a few dogs who hate to hike on lead because they always got to hike off lead in the woods.

    Also, I only let my dogs off lead when we are in remote low-traffic areas, so I have run into an issue where some of our dogs (Kona, for example) are GREAT on the trail but kinda freaked out when we walk in a more urban environment.

    Anyway, just sharing my experience, not saying you will have that issue, Nate.
  • @brada1878 Thanks Brad. Orry is growing really nicely and I think he's definitely enjoying MT. He's changed a ton over the short month and a half that we've had him, which has been fun to watch. His color has lightened up (it's turning more reddish which is really cool) and he's more than doubled in size. He's still the smallest pup in his class, but he sure as hell doesn't seem to care much, lol...he goes right for the big guys!

    You've had many dogs and your input has a lot of value, so I'm always glad to hear of your experiences. Yeah, variation with the leash, I think, has been super helpful. I do need to get him used to a more urban environment, which is something I haven't done yet. I really need to take him downtown Bozeman on a leash. Several of the stores are "pet ready" with treats to give out, so it'd be a good thing while he's young. Thanks for putting that thought in my mind!
  • I've really been enjoying the photos of Orry's littermates (and all the other Kai of course), so I thought I'd keep the pics coming too. Here's some recent photos of Orry hiking...

    IMAG0398 2
    Finally got a face shot.


    IMAG0403
    Since the last time I posted, he's obviously grown a lot, but I've really noticed his tail thickening up quite a bit. I'm guessing this is pretty typical from 4 to 6 months with Kai.


    IMAG0399
    Unfortunately I cut off his tail in this pic...bummer.


    IMAG0407
    Orry loves the rocks. He often stands in perfect pose on them and looks down the mountain as if he owns it. Two more examples of this are shown below.


    IMAG0409


    IMAG0410 (2)


    Although this does not do it justice, I shot a video on my phone of a part of one of our favorite hiking trails, which is only about 5 minutes from our downtown. I tried to pan around at one point to get a view of the valley, but it really only showed so much. For anyone out there that may know the area, I'm in the Bridger Range and the quick pan is looking toward the Gallatin Range.




  • Say Brother! Orry looks so great, and you have a really nice place to climb and hike! what a view... its so open.

    Orrys got nice color and his tail looks more fanned out already than Matsu's tail. Orry has a sweet face :)
  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    He looks great! I'm jealous of all the cool hiking spots you guys have... One day!
  • @WrylyBrindle Yeah it's very open in the valley, and even in the mountains where it thickens up, there's still nice patches that open up....I think that's why we're known as "Big Sky Country." His tail has definitely started to fan. Not sure it will ever be quite like Ayu's, but these little guys seem to change so much in regards to coat and color as they age so who knows. He does look very much like her. His right back leg is basically Ayu's coloring, but the rest of him is still much darker. There's a photo of her on Brad's site that looks so much like him it's crazy...kind of a mommas boy I guess.

    @Hinata23, If I remember correctly from your posts, you live in Florida. I have cousins there so I'm somewhat familiar. You definitely need to hike out west some day! I'm sure Goro would love it! We're an hour and a half from Yellowstone National Park, so there's lots to see...one day.
  • thegelathegela
    Posts: 350
    Orry is really handsome! And I'm incredibly jealous of your living situation! So beautiful!! :)
    Hana - 2yr (10-22-11)/ F / Kai Ken / shy, sweet, cuddly, silly, loves the woods
    Yezo - 6mo (07-11-13) / M / Hokkaido / foodie, monster, lovebug, loves winter
    -------------------
    instagram - gelabot
    hana yezo's tumblr - http://hanayezo.tumblr.com
    my tumblr - http://angelaan.tumblr.com
  • CarabooACarabooA
    Posts: 551
    He does look awesome! I just love all these Kai!! He's a very handsome boy!
    What day is it?
    Why, it's Today....
    Ah, my favorite day!

    PrettyKi11-13-12 OutsidePlease11-13-12-1Mirraheartssnow
    Kitora (Kai Ken), Kunai (Kai Ken) and Mirra (Siberian Husky/Border Collie)
  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    @MontanaKai West as in the west coast of Florida or West as in "The West"? We lived in Utah for the first few months of Goro's puppyhood... but we never got to take him out to hike the mountains! I totally regret it!
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    Hi tail is looking GREAT! :)
  • @Hinata23 "The West," and Utah definitely qualifies. My wife is from Park City, so I know how pretty that area is as well...I"m sure that Goro loved it!

    Been a little bored at work today...here's a few more.


    Orry1


    Orry2
    I posted this one to show how his back leg is super light when compared to the rest of his kurotora coat. He's part chu-tora lol.


    Orry3
    This is definitely his goofy side. Overall, Orry (and probably Kai in general) has a serious, somewhat intimidating look to him but sometimes he just looks like a total dork! The angle doesn't help either which makes his front legs look much shorter than they actually are.

    Post edited by MontanaKai at 2013-02-05 21:18:08
  • cdenneycdenney
    Posts: 961
    He seems more of a chutora than kuro to my inexperienced eye.

    Sachi is def a black base with blonde stripes where he seems a red/black mix
    image
    image
    Post edited by cdenney at 2013-02-05 18:15:55
  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    @montanakai Park City is gorgeous!! I seriously love that place. My in-laws have a time share condo there and we use to stays there often. Such a cool place :)
  • @cdenney You may be right, especially as he gets older. My eye is inexperienced as well, and differentiating between a heavily brindled kuro and a chutora is difficult for me. Either way, I love his coloring.

    @Hinata23 Definitely a cool and beautiful place...can't wait to go back to visit! Bozeman has a similar feel, just a little less "resorty."
  • cdenneycdenney
    Posts: 961
    @montanakai he is gorgeous and i love his little mask
    image
    image
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    He's registered (or will be when we get the pedigrees) as a chutora.
  • @brada1878 Thanks for the clarification Brad. That makes sense. He keeps getting lighter and lighter so that seems to be most fitting. I'll get the distinction between the two colorings down one of these days. The extreme examples (as in very light chutora vs very dark kurotora) are easy to identify, it's the line between the two that still confuses me. I remember there was a post on this topic...I'll have to go back and read it again.
  • cdenneycdenney
    Posts: 961
    Can you link it? I haven't seen it, it would be interesting. I know the akatora is a red dog with brown stripes, no black, but I have issues with the other two.
    image
    image
  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    @cdenney Here's a link that can help: http://nihonken.blogspot.com/p/kai.html

    The way I think of it is the Kuro-tora is black with lighter strips (red, gold, or brown) and the Chu-tora is lighter (red, gold, or brown) with black strips. Aka-tora is red with brown strips.
  • cdenneycdenney
    Posts: 961
    Thanks!
    image
    image
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3012
    Orry is growing up nicely. :)

    Saya my shiba loves climbing up hills, rocks or fallen trees fun to watch her go up she makes it look easy. haha
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • @cdenney In Shakko's thread, about midway down the page, there is some more discussion, but it focuses on the differences between akatora and chutora....still pretty interesting.

    http://www.nihonken.org/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/157448#Comment_157448
  • cdenneycdenney
    Posts: 961
    Cool, thanks!
    image
    image
  • Orry...love this little guy! Since I don't use facebook, I need a photo outlet, so here is yet another photo (probably over spammed at this point lol).

    IMAG0106 3
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    No such thing as over-spam!

    He is really handsome. This litter is turning out super nice, I'm very pleased!
  • @brada1878 Me too! The only bad thing about it is getting stopped by every passerby wanting to know more about the breed. LOL maybe I need some socialization work!
  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    @MontanaKai I feel you! It got so bad during walks that I made cards with the breeds info as well as the forum's website on it LOL

    There's no such things as too many photos! We love to be updated on the pups!

    @brad1878 Nio and Ayu were meant to be! :) All the pups look great! Akashi was just that bad boy she couldn't help herself with LOL
  • Just read this entire entry! I feel like I'm going through all the same things, just 2 months behind haha.

    Ginko has learned not to puppy bite me, but my roomates on the other hand...I'm trying to teach them to give him a toy and re-direct, but they just say 'stop' repeatedly. So he jumps on them.

    The tip on crating him when he gets to flying around the apartment is great @brada1878. It's funny until he flings himself off the top of the couch at a full sprint.

    As for off the leash, I'm too nervous to let him off at all. However, when I have the leash in my hand before we go outside he'll walk to the door and sit. And in car rides, he sits and waits for me to grab the leash before jumping out of the car. So maybe it wouldn't be that bad.

    By the way @MontanaKai, it is crazy looking at your photos. When you did get Orry's eyes, he looks EXACTLY like Ginko. Cool to be able to follow his family grow as well. Keep up the posts please.
  • @nrmorris Orry's puppy biting has died down a ton, so I'm sure Ginko's will do the same with time. It's pretty rare that there are any issues with it now. Don't get me wrong, he still loves to chew, just not on our hands and fingers. I did the re-direct thing too, and for awhile it didn't seem like it was working, but it eventually does.

    He also doesn't really get the puppy freakouts/zummies much anymore...he's actually pretty chill. That couch comment is hilarious. I've seen Orry fly off of many things and even into glass doors when he's in that mode.

    From the pics I've seen of Ginko, I think they do look a lot alike. The last one of Orry's face that I posted is probably what he looks most like in person. The few before that that were taken indoors show his coloring well, but he has a wide-eyed expression that he rarely makes. In person, his eyes are pretty small and dark like the last one.

    Keep the pics coming on your end as well...Ginko's a little stud!
  • What a beautiful... i mean handsome and manly Kai! I love the snow pictures.
  • thegelathegela
    Posts: 350
    Again... super jealous of your stunning neighbourhood! Wish I had mountains and forests to hike with Hana in!! Orry is handsome! :)
    Hana - 2yr (10-22-11)/ F / Kai Ken / shy, sweet, cuddly, silly, loves the woods
    Yezo - 6mo (07-11-13) / M / Hokkaido / foodie, monster, lovebug, loves winter
    -------------------
    instagram - gelabot
    hana yezo's tumblr - http://hanayezo.tumblr.com
    my tumblr - http://angelaan.tumblr.com
  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    I don't have a kai, but I love KAI SPAM!!! :) Thanks for sharing!
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    Definitely no such thing as over-spamming pictures! Every picture you put up of hiking outdoors with him is amazing. I'm a few hours south of @hinata23 and have similar landscape, flat lol. The Everglades are nice to hike in for looking at things but the hike itself is rather repetitive, seeing as how it's the same, repetitive terrain. Ren and I were planning on heading out to NW Nevada before a rooming situation fell through. Now it'll be another 2-3 years in FL while finishing college before hopefully moving out to the Pacific NW. Definitely planning some road trips West in a years time to meet up with other NK'ers!
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    @cezieg The Pacific NW is amazing! I'm so bored with Florida...
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    Let me just say Ohio sucks.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

    DSCF0686IMG_0940 - Version 2DSCF0714IMG_1151

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  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    @sjp051993 Looks nice compared to what I'm used to here in Florida... At least you guys have nice hiking areas. We have swamps and mosquitos! lol
  • I am very happy with Vermont!
  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    @WrylyBrindle LOL With a backyard like yours, who wouldn't be?!
  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    I'm kind of regretting moving back to Florida. Utah had super nice trails that Goro and ChoCho would've loved... :'(
    Post edited by Hinata23 at 2013-02-23 19:30:31
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    Hiking areas are starting to be hard to come by. Alot of areas do not allow dogs that to irresponsible owners. Very flat and the mosquitoes can be quite bad during the summer. Anymore I limit my hiking to my parents land. Only place that it is really safe.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

    DSCF0686IMG_0940 - Version 2DSCF0714IMG_1151

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  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    @Hinata23 Yeah it is! My sister and her husband moved to Vancouver, WA in January and have been posting pictures all the time. It's beautiful and the weather is really nice too. Very cool for most of the year. The military isn't happening (as prior service, only eligible for Reserves, which they forgot to mention until the very end, and they don't have much education assistance) so I'll be finishing my Associate this year then transferring to FAU or UCF for Computer Science. Once I'm done it's definitely hitting the road back to San Fran or somewhere near Washington to be close to my sister. Endless terrain for dog hikes and other fun outdoor stuff!
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
    Post edited by cezieg at 2013-02-23 19:37:00
  • sjp051993sjp051993
    Posts: 1605
    I was gonna ask about the military. You had not said much more about it. Ren will be happy you won't be leaving for the military.
    Stacey living with Tora, Kazue, Ritsu and Kuma the Shiba
    www.suteishiikennels.com

    DSCF0686IMG_0940 - Version 2DSCF0714IMG_1151

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  • Hinata23Hinata23
    Posts: 1444
    @cezieg That stinks... but I'm happy for Ren! I wasn't sure how she would react once you left. Sounds like you have a pretty sweet plan for the future! :)
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    Flagstaff is pretty cool. Might want to check it out @cezieg

    Wait, I thought you were enlisting???
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12221
    Oh, wait, I missed the comment above. Cool. I was worried about Ren too!
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    It's a bit of a let down but it just put's me on a focus for my degree vs holding out for funding for aviation, which I can do as a hobby no big deal!

    @brada1878 It also means Ren can have a little brother in 2-3 years instead of 5-6 years... so I may have to be calling you or @poeticdragon in a years time for 2015/2016 ;)
    I'm definitely going to look into Flagstaff more. It sounds like a great area!

    @MontanaKai Out of curiosity what kind of collar is that? Kong?
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
    Post edited by cezieg at 2013-02-23 23:04:26
  • TrzcinaTrzcina
    Posts: 331
    That last picture (his head) is absolutely gorgeous. He's a handsome dog, and with the background... very cool!

    Yeah, I wish we had hiking areas like that around here, too. There are a few good trails here and there, but SO many mosquitoes in the summer.
  • @thegela Thanks. I feel really lucky to have such amazing access to the outdoors. I've always enjoyed it growing up, but it's crazy how much adding a dog motivates me to get out even more. I think this is the most I've ever hiked in the winter. Where are you from?

    @cezieg The Pacific NW is amazing as @Hinata23 mentioned. I spent my first 10 years of life in Alaska and I've been in Bozeman now for 20. I have a brother in Portland, OR...definitely wouldn't be a bad place to end up. It's a little busier than where I am, and to get to the less traveled trails you have to drive 30-45mins whereas for me it's more like 5-10mins, but out there you have coastal access which is a good tradeoff. Bozeman, as small of a town as it is, actually has a growing high-tech scene, which may be interesting with a CS degree. As Brad mentioned, Flagstaff is really nice too. I was able to check it out when I picked up Orry.

    I'm actually not sure the maker of Orry's collar. I got it at one of our local stores, and they had their own branding on it, but I know they didn't make it. I cut off their tag though because it bothered me. It's a really nice store (dee-o-gee.com) though, so I'm sure they use a good company for their collars.

    @brada1878 Took Orry downtown over the weekend. He loved it, and had no problem receiving all kinds of attention from adults, kids, and other dogs. Thanks for the suggestion!

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