Dog park problems

im just wondering how your shikokus do in public dog parks?

Ghost is usually fine but lately he growls more, its the normal shikoku play growl we all are used to, but other people tend to freak out. it seems like a lot of owners coddle their dogs more these days and overreact at the slightest sound. ghost never bites anybody (occasional nip) and he does like to wrestle, but more often than not the other dogs instigate the wrestling as well.

now my problem is that some dogs play and wrestle with him and when Ghost gets on top of the dog, it will start whining and crying like crazy, even though i can clearly see that Ghost isnt hurting the dog at all. obviously the other owner freaks out.

the other day that scenario happened with a husky. i quickly jumped in to pull Ghost away from the husky and while i was doing that (ive already grabbed Ghost) the damn owner comes in and starts elbowing Ghost in the face and seemed to be grabbing his neck with the other hand. that pissed me off and i pushed him and gave the guy an earful. he obviously was yelling back and i was just in his face the whole time. i was hoping he would throw a punch or something so that i can defend myself by wiping the floor with his face but he ended up backing off.

i can understand someone pulling my dog off theirs if im not close enough to do it myself but physically hurting my dog shouldnt happen. especially if ive already pulled him off the other dog. anyways i dont think i did anything wrong defending my dog but i shouldnt have sworn and raised my voice so much since there were other people around too (many left) and there may have been children. some lady reprimanded him afterwards but i was definitely doing more of the swearing.

anyways do you guys think i was wrong? have any of you gone through something similar? if so how did you react?
is there anything i can do with Ghost to make him chill out more or growl less? maybe play less roughly? he never hurts others but hes quite boisterous.
i like going to the parks but im too old to be getting into fights and i really dont want to lose my gun licence or get charged over a scrap.

cheers!

Comments

  • edited October 2012
    While I don't have a shikoku, I definitely don't think it was necessarily 'wrong' to reprimand someone for attacking your dog, especially if you already had Ghost controlled and away from the other dog. I probably would have veered away from losing my cool, but in the heat of the moment we, as dog owners and defenders, tend to make the choices we feel most with our hearts. I don't blame you!

    This is, however, the reason I will not go to a traditional dog park. I can handle the dogs, but the people drive me up the wall. They make illogical choices all the time and everyone knows, as dog owners, the 'my dog would NEVER ...' syndrome. (My dog would NEVER do that; My dog NEVER does this; My dog NEVER does wrong, etc). I don't trust unknown owners well enough to go to 'dog parks' and I don't think my dogs ride the social short bus well enough to go to these free-for-all madhouses.

    I can tell you that I find being vocal during play raises tension, so I encourage quiet play where I work to keep the dogs happy and calm. I do this by separating dogs when they get vocal and encouraging dogs when they're quietly playing. Separated dogs are only so for a few seconds - enough to get them less focused on what's stimulating them and more on me or whatever is going to calm them down (normally I have them sit next to or under me and give lots of praise once they're calm-- it's sometimes a waiting game). After that, I let them join the group until they start being too vocal again. Rinse and repeat until they realize the can still play withiut the growlies and barking in other dogs' faces. I do this with my boys if they're playing with dogs they or I don't know well, but tend to let them get vocal with each other or well known dogs.

    You'll never be able to control how owners act and at parks, interfering with other peoples' dogs is probably a nono, even if they're doing something 'bad' for the group. Like I said, I stay away from small 'dog parks'. My dogs are quite vocal and high energy, rambunctious players that I know bringing them to these parks often sets them up for failure; they are generally good in the controlled environment where I work, however, and get lots of play with dogs we meet at a local state park where owners tend to be kinder and interaction isn't as stressful.
  • Not a shikoku owner, but I'd advocate for a different type of recreation regardless of dog breed. When we did 'dog park' it was actually a 35 acres field that everyone walked around with the dogs, forming little groups that joined and broke apart and *Kept Moving*...even tho Reilly handled this great for 5 years, Sage found even this to be overwhelming and even tho he was NOT the aggressor, his wild looks perhaps combined with the Not MY Baby syndrome caused him to get kicked in the face by another owner for trying to growl away a persistent asshat of a dog. It's not worth it. The solution was not to try to get Sage to play like an acquiescent doormat of a dog, or to suck it up and be more diplomatic, it was to provide him a social environment in which he was understood and could succeed as he is. Although some dogs do well being socialites, mature dogs are generally xenophobes and it comes more naturally to them to know a small group of others well, more so than to have lots and lots of superficial relationships 'Hi, Bye". That's fair to the dog. Ghost is a grown up now- isnt he over 2?- and he plays like a shikoku, and an NK which carries some pride and intensity and other people with bubblehead goldens that love everyone wont easily understand. You might try what we did, which was meet specific friends and their dogs who DO get long and enjoy Ghost at other places for walks together.
  • I am also not in favor of dog parks regardless of breed but especially for primitive spitz breeds.
  • I would have done about what you did. Which is why I don't go to dog parks either. But I also have dogs that are not only just typical NKs, but are reactive ones (Leo the Kai aside), so there is no way it would work out with mine. I mean seriously, if someone hit/kicked/elbowed my dog in the face (unless it really was a fight), I'd be hard pressed not to lose it. But I did laugh at your "I'm too old to get in fight" line.....and not worth it either.

    It's just too unpredictable. There are too many asshat owners and dogs that shouldn't be there, and sometimes just too many dogs period. (Leo, who is pretty good with other dogs, got overwhelmed at his puppy play group when there were more than 5 dogs there, and he's turn his head to the wall, poor boy! Of course I always took him home at that point).

    I'm beginning to think they are a bad idea for MOST dogs. I mean, really, which dogs do well at dog parks? I've watched my friend's GSD and terrier play, and there is still a lot of growling and squabbling and biting among them, and their temperaments were much more suited to the dog park than my dogs.
  • I have never taken kaiju to a dog park but I think @crimson02 takes Kurenai to one. Kaiju is not neutered and given his past issues, I never wanted to take a chance.
  • I think most shikoku are probably not suitable for dog parks. The naturally make a lot of growling noises during play and and rough players. They seem to play well with others that have their play style. But that can be hard to find in many dog parks.

    Can you find 1 or 2 other dogs that he plays well with and have play dates? My two shikoku play all the time, but roughly and noisily. I am sure many dog owners, who are not used to this play style, would think they are fighting (but they are not).
  • You have to be super diligent in throttling your dog's play (and excitement) in dog parks. Most other dogs' play energy is usually around a 3 to 6 out of 10 in a dog park (small breeds are usually around 5 to 8 but they are small so they are excused). To new people, I've always described Shikokus as "intense" in everything they do. Their gaze, their prey drive, and even their play. Kurenai's play energy is usually at a 5 or 8 when she is in dog parks for the first 30 minutes. Dog's running (especially smaller ones) will kick her prey drive in so fast that she shoots up to 7 and 8 when she gives chase. By the time she catches up, trips one up and sends it tumbling (and crying), she's standing over them lording over them and I imagine other owners think she's about to devour their dog. It's unfortunate, but it's instinctual. If there's anyone with a large breed adolescent puppy, I find Kurenai tends to gravitate to them and wrestle more with them (much to the delight of their owners).

    If you want to keep going to the dog parks to enjoy your dog and others, you should probably give Ghost a really long walk or exhaustive training session right before you go into the dog park so their energy level better matches other dogs. The dog parks I go to usually have a small breed and large breed side and small breed owners do coddle their dogs as they run amok. However, they expect to bring their dogs to a place where they can run free off-leash (leash laws in CA) and not fear for their dog to be "hunted" down by a coyote-lookin' medium sized breed. I can understand that. Kurenai fares better with large breeds (adolescent large breeds).

    Jesse
  • I agree with all above. :)

    "a lot of owners coddle their dogs more these days and overreact at the slightest sound"
    Saya is very growly during play she also makes various light screams, shiba shrieks and play noises or whatever. Other owners tend overreact and it caused their own dog to get nervious which before they played fine..

    Eventually Saya had two bad experiences at the dog park and Saya had enough with these dogs and she would just explore the dog park and tell dogs to back off she never bitten them, but mostly growled and bared teeth. Sadly most dogs don't seem get back of signals..

    "I can handle the dogs, but the people drive me up the wall"
    I agree with this 100%

    The owner of the lab mix, and bully type dog she made all kinds of excuses of her dog going for Saya then 10 minutes or so later her dog caused another fight or argument with a golden retriever that never had caused any issues when ever I gone for the year.

    Saya only real buddies which had similar play style was Mollie the brindle boxer, blue the dachshund and Genji shiba.

    Oddly she liked Mollie the boxer, but other boxers she didn't like Mollie was much calmer and initiated play more politely while other boxers wanted to box her and get too rough..

    I don't go any more, but Saya does have some friends she plays with lab/mastiff mix, my cousin's pug, Bella my mom's boxer..

    Jesse has a good idea exercise Ghost bit before going to the dog park a lot of dogs I notice are so hyped up and excited for the dog park they act too nutty..

    One guy he only brings his dog to the dog park for his sole exercise.. When ever it rained hard and the dog park flooded and closed he'd complain because his dog isn't getting exercise.. I mean go walk your dog geez! "

    Other people would tell their dog to go play and say go get him to try get their dog to play..

    I don't care if my dogs don't play at all if they want to explore the park then great park is for them to enjoy how they want not how humans want.. lol

    It was very hot those days so dogs mostly greeted each other then walked around then lay in the shade.
  • I've always felt that dogs learning to play nice with other dogs was something that can only be taught by another dog. Dogs try really hard not to cause conflict and want to fit in, but I think only another dog can teach social adeptness to another dog. There is only so much a human can teach a dog, and sometimes there are things that dogs can only give to other dogs.

    I would just work on finding dogs that Ghost gets along with, and owners that you get along with. I generally avoid dog parks with Toki, but me telling you that doesn't really answer your question. I think that you handled the situation correctly. The guy was essentially attacking and disrespecting your dog. Not cool.
  • Oops, she's right, I forgot to answer your original question.

    I'm always proactively chasing my Shikoku to make sure her greetings don't quickly escalate. I am able to identify the "right" dog owners when it's their dogs being chased and they're telling me, "Don't worry about it, they're just playing".
  • I would have front kicked that guy off my dog and sent him flying no joke that would have surprised him enough to give me time to get my dog out of there and start waking.
  • thanks for all the responses. ya thats the crappy thing about dog parks. too many paranoid owners that coddle their dogs too much and dont really know about dog behavior. i guess i just have to be more vigilant if i go back to another dog park. i guess Ghost is also getting rowdier as he gets older and more confident. (he is now almost 15 months old)

    anyways, i guess there really isnt much else i can do but try to assocsciate with dogs that he gets along with. its sometimes hard though because he can easily run to different areas in the park where other dogs that he should avoid are playing.

    i saw that Ghost was essentially okay, despite what the guy did, but if Ghost was even the slightest bit injured then id definitely lay this guy out on the floor. anyways im just glad that Ghost is fine, im not charged and that i still have my firearms licence.
  • No kidding, It sucks that if you get into a fight that you can lose your cc. It's probably a really good thing that things didn't get ugly while you were carrying it always looks bad if you have a firearm and get into something. Glad everything turned out good for you and Ghost.
  • I've taken Rakka to dog parks lots and she's never hurt another dog, but she's scared some a few times and upset a few owners. She is very intense, even when she's not doing anything. Her stare is enough to send some dogs into hysterics. So, I tend to go to the dog parks when the weather is bad so no one else is there, or I take her on the long line and just stay further from other people and their dogs. I don't go there to see the other dogs, I just go there because it's a nice, big open space where I'm allowed to have the dogs off leash.
  • We just had our monthly meetup at one of the local dog parks. This is an extremely well designed, community supported dog park. It has small dog, large dog, and optional use areas. The small dog area is about .75 of an acre. There were about 25 Shiba folk and 20 Shibas there as well as a contingent of other breeds and their owners. Everyone, dogs and people, seemed to get along pretty well. (On the other side of the fence, with the big dogs, there were occasional rumbling noises, but no major events.)
Sign In or Register to comment.