best type of goat to eat
  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    I am sorry if this posting comes off as offensive, I know we have vegans and vegetarians on the forum. I was planning to get a goat for the pups and dogs for training and I intend to slaughter the goat but there are so many different kinds. I know we have some forum members that are farmers, what type of goat is best for eating?
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3419
    Boer
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  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2081
    Yup, get a meat goat like a Boer.
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  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3419
    Be prepared for an enormous amount of guilt. Goats are wonderful pets. They stress really easily around dogs and are noisy when separated from their herd, so I would look for a pair.

    What sort of training do you think a goat will help with? Have you ever slaughtered anything before that you raised?
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  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3419
    Kiko goats are another excellent meat breed.
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  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    @lindsayt--I have never slaughtered anything that I raised. When I was small, my parents told me they got me a pet rabbit and I raised it, a couple of weeks later, they killed it. We need to slaughter a goat every year (for religious reasons) and the hub goes to the farm to do that (i never go). However, since we have the pups, I thought it would be cool to have a goat around for them to test their drive/hunting skills with (I am not quite sure I will go about this yet, it is all preliminary; all in my head). I have heard of people testing their dogs with pot belly pigs but I don't eat pig and I don't know how I would feel with a little baby pig running around the backyard. Basically, I am trying to research tests to do with these pups to make sure that their future owners know EXACTLY what kind of pups they are going to get. I know I messed up with this accidentally breeding so I want to try my best to find the best home for them and keep the future owners FULLY informed of everything.
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3419
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    Post edited by lindsayt at 2012-09-16 23:00:13
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3419
    I considered asking some local farmers if I could bring my dogs to their boar pens to see their responses. That may be an option for you, and any herding facilities or sheep farms also, or deer farms.

    I will tell you my personal hesitation with keeping goats and dogs and why I decided not to get any, or sheep, although I have had plenty of experience around both on the farm (and this isn't meant to try to discourage you at all, I think a type of hunt drive test sounds like a neat plan for these puppies):

    Goats are not like anything domestic dogs would hunt legitimately, so all it tells me is that they are learning how to harass livestock. The goats can get so stressed around dogs it's actually IMO cruel to the goat to let dogs hassle them.

    Anyways, it will be interesting to see what their reactions are as puppies to real game.
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  • HeidiHeidi
    Posts: 3379
    I would go with a boar for testing dogs. Do you eat pork? Which religion is the goat slaughter for? If you don't mind me asking.

    Hmm... not sure what other animals you could really keep (I'm assuming bears are out of the question, lol). I wonder what Gen or Shigeru think of using goats. @TheWalrus @shishiinu
    Rakka 落下(Shikoku Ken), Sosuke 宗介 (Kai Ken), Hester, Stephanie, and Batgirl(cats)
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    Post edited by Heidi at 2012-09-16 23:44:41
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 2993
    I agree a boar would be better since most people who hunt big game is boar. Beer and bobcats also, but that's not feasible and safe to do.. lol

    Maybe get a boar pelt, squirrel pelt and see their reaction?

    I have a squirrel pelt I use for fun pelt flirt toy and Saya loves chasing it.

    laika owners seem to also hunt squirrel with treeing them..

    Not sure if Gen has any more boar hide, but that be good first step too.

    If you don't eat pork well you can use the boar for testing and let Gen have it's meat? that way you won't be eating it, but the meat won't go to waste?

    There is scent out there too not sure if it'd help, but boar scent might help get their prey drive going? I dunno.

    I have no experience with hunting with dogs only read some, but not enough to inform you well..

    I'd worry too with the dogs thinking it's OK to hunt a goat.. Like if the hunter was hunting boar and the dog comes upon a herd of goats on farm?

    I mean yeah there is ways to break a dog on chasing wrong prey too..

    Good luck hope Gen or Shigeru can steer you in right direction.

    I can understand wanting to try find right home for each pup and making sure the right personality goes to right home.
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  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    I could buy some rabbits @thewalrus @shishiinu do you guys think that is an ok alternative?
  • I don't know...it's one thing to raise animals for slaughter, which would be hard in its own way, but I wouldn't want to test the dogs on them....that just seems unnecessarily cruel, like Lindsay said. Rabbits or goats.....why do that?

    Testing hunting drive is important, and I could see doing it on the boars, but I don't see testing hunting drive on livestock animals, and that would include rabbits, which would be very different from wild rabbits.

    Lisa, Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akita), and Leo (Kai Ken)
  • If you try and test the pups on rabbits, you may very well not have to slaughter them. They're easily scared and can be scared to death.
    Post edited by NotoriousScrat at 2012-09-17 01:17:13
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1977
    I think that you would be crazy to do this in the state that we live in.

    I mean, it was only a few years ago that the sighthound people had to fight off legislation against open field coursing. (Dogs hunting wild jackrabbits in an open space with the jackrabbits often times escaping the dogs).

    What you'll be doing in essence is a canned hunt using domesticated rabbits (not jackrabbits) who have no sporting chance to get away. And for what future purpose? To create rabbit-hunting dogs? Are you sure future hunters would like pups to be imprinted on rabbits ("trash" for them) instead of other game animals?
    Post edited by ayk at 2012-09-17 11:00:20
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3964
    Like what was said, using domestic animals will not only upset the animal rights people, but will also cause further confusion for the pups. Showing them that it's alright to "hunt" goats or domestic rabbits may risk them becoming livestock chasers and getting shot by farmers for being a nuisance. Plus, any hunter who wants to hunt with them could have issues with trying to redirect the pup to the game that they should hunt, and would have to go through extra work to train the pup to stop hunting animals they shouldn't.

    Why not use skins and a flirt pole to test drive? It's not quite the same as a live animal, but it will help "teach" the pups what smells are ok to hunt for. You could probably get boar, wild rabbit, or any other animal skin from local hunters. Use it to test their hunting drive with, or even to give them a good start. Doing it this way will prevent upsetting the animal rights activists or concerned neighbors who sees what you are doing.
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    Post edited by Calia at 2012-09-17 12:20:38
  • I understand this is a 2 birds/one stone thing with the religious/goat aspect, but do the new owners want you to do this? As I understand it, laika are most often employed in squirrel hunting in this country. That should not be hard to test. Plus you only have them 8 weeks, and theres a lot of other stuff to learn in that time...:)
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  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    @ayk--I know you are just speaking you mind, but along these lines, before anyone else gets worked up, I would like to clarify something.

    I have not bought/obtained any of these animals! In fact, I am NOT a hunter nor have I bred anything. That being said, I had an accidental breeding and my first priority is that these pups go to homes in which the future owners know EXACTLY or get them AS INFORMED AS POSSIBLE what the pups personality are (to TRY to prevent future problems and surprises). That being said, both the parents are from hunting lines. I have some people who are interested in the pups who are not hunters or who does not want a dog that barks too much (this is one is actually the one I am worried about because Kilbe barks and whines a lot; she is very vocal) . That being said, I would like to give them the pup that doesn't have such a high prey drive. I know boar/pig is often used for testing but I don't personally don't eat it. So, if someone is willing to take it off my hands afterwards, that is great. However, I DO have to slaughter a goat every year so that is why I brought it up.

    If anyone with more experience has ANY temperment test that I could try, please feel free to let me know.
  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    @Calia--I will definitely try the skin/flirt pole thing!

    thanks everyone for your suggestions! :) Thanks for bearing with me while you guys may think its common sense but I may not. This is why I put my thoughts on a public forum.
    Post edited by ttddinh at 2012-09-17 12:46:17
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 2993
    Someone who doesn't want a barker? I hope their pup doesn't have too much laika traits.

    I don't know how barky shikoku are I only met one about three or four times and she's been silent..

    Good luck with this. I'm going to get some leather string soon to use with Saya's boar hide.

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    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • I understand you were just trying to think this through, but I don't think using domestic animals to test hunting drive is going to work here. And you know, probably you don't need to worry about testing drive in any more serious way than observing them play, perhaps trying the flirt pole etc. You can get a sense of prey drive without ever "testing" your dogs on other animals, if you're only trying to assess if the dog has a relatively high prey drive.

    You're not breeding and selling hunting dogs--you're trying to place an accidental litter. So unless you decide to buy more dogs and start breeding hunting lines, then probably worrying about hunt tests on these dogs isn't necessary, and honestly, sounds like you're just adding WAY too much work for yourself. The new owners can test for hunting prowess if they choose.

    Now if you decide you want to raise goats for your family for meat, that's a whole 'nother thing! Just remember what Lindsay noted about the goats. There was someone on the NK FB page looking to rehome a gorgeous Kai Ken import because he harassed her goats, so keeping goats and NKs may be a difficult mix, depending on the dogs, of course.
    Lisa, Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akita), and Leo (Kai Ken)
  • HeidiHeidi
    Posts: 3379
    You could probably try something as simple as live-catching a mouse, rabbit, squirrel, or whatever other small critters may be around. Let it loose in the vicinity of the puppies and maybe record their reaction. Or just ask an experienced hunter what they would do. I realize that this is a first for you and you're just thinking of ways to make this work. I'm going to assume most of US wouldn't know what to do, either.

    Someone's probably written an online article about puppy testing for hunting dogs somewhere...
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  • I apologize if im repeating someone elses comment, I only skimmed through te posts. IMHO I would stay away from using live stock from "testing" a dogs hunting ability. There are too many things that could go wrong such as neighbor complaints, the state of California, puppies getting hurt, etc. I purchased free range hogs (Eurasian boar) that were pretty much wild animals. But I only did this because I hunt with my dogs and it was the only legal way to do so.

    I'm not big into intentionally using domestic animals for the purpose of seeing if a dog has prey drive or not. I think if you plan on wanting to hunt with the pups, wait till about 4 or 5 months to start although some will wait a year before training a NK for hunting.

    So that being said if you want to test a dogs hunting ability, either go to a sanctioned trial or purchase hogs like I did to keep things legitimate.



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  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2081
    I agree with getting a skin on a flirt pole, that seems like a good way to test drive. My Shiba's got a lot of drive and I didn't have to intentionally test him to see that, but a skin helps ramp it up.

    Due to the Laika blood I'd really avoid placing these pups with people who don't want barking. I didn't know Conker barked so much until well after I had him, but I'm perfectly fine with that. Most people, probably not.
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  • By the way I think i sent a pice of hog skin to you Ttddinh. If I didn't let me know I think I may have some left.
    Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12209
    I think it's great we, as a community, can discuss a topic with so many sensitive bits (religion, animal slaughter, hunting, etc...) and not lose our cool.

    Along the lines of Beth's comment, I bet the same place your husband goes for goats can provide some skin and such from some of their animals (tho I dunno how much that will help since they will be from domestic animals).

    Also, what Heidi, I know a lot of squirrel hunters will live-capture a squirrel then release it in an area letting their young dogs search for it... BUT, I dunno that you will get that much info from such young pups even if you had a non-domesticated live animal to test them on.

    ----
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 2993
    Do all puppy buyers experienced with spitz breeds, Nihonken, laika or hunting breed?

    I know brad and Jen are experienced since they own both.. hehe

    I like shishiinu advice.

    Boar hide or you can get a squirrel hide maybe there is a squirrel hunter around your area or taxidermist place maybe you can have them give you one without any harsh treatment done to it. I'm not sure how taxidermist people do things.

    Saya my shiba chased after two adult wild rabbits at age of 9weeks old it was crazy she just charging at them they were by the woods so once they went in Saya returned to me..

    I didn't notice any rabbits so thought she'd been fine off leash. lesson learned look around more better.

    One important thing is try expose them to things like grass, different surfaces that would be in a house or outside.. Plenty of fun toys and flirt pole play time. and working with potty training and stuff.

    I dunno how hunters or people who hunt with laika start their hunting pups sorry.
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