red brindle akita
  • timkimtimkim
    Posts: 377
    I think these two red brindle akita are awsome. I know there is one more red that I really like but I need to find pic. i will update it when I find it.
    Photobucket
    Photobucket
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2081
    I really like this coloration. Silver brindle (is that what it is called?) in the Akita is my favorite, but this one is stunning too.
    image
  • I like brindles that have good stripes. I feel like many of the ones in the US are too "muddy."
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
  • venusvenus
    Posts: 285
    we have same issue in the uk Claire, in fact i don't think there is a brindle i like at all here.
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3965
    Very nice! Red brindle is my favorite JA color, it kind of reminds of the childhood coloring books, taking a black and white image and adding color to it.
    image
  • Hmm...nice looking dog, though I admit I find the red and silver together a little odd.

    My Kai Ken has some pretty amazing stripes on him! :)
    Lisa, Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akita), and Leo (Kai Ken)
  • jellyfishjellyfish
    Posts: 1081
    Both of these dogs are really well put together, and theyre brindles and this is always awesome. what kennels are they out of?

    Red brindles are my favorite and I agree with Claire that there are a lot of muddy pups in the states. Good pups, but as a matter of opinion, muddy. I like very distinct stripes and very vivid red, which is really hard to come by it seems. I would like to see lines of high quality red brindles that focus in the brindle part. There are some excellent silver brindle kennels, but I want red :D

    And with what is popular at the moment: black brindles and silver brindles, as badass as they are, it doesn't seem like there is much hope for improving red brindles. But I have hope and I know this is going to happen in the foreseen future :)
    Post edited by jellyfish at 2012-08-04 15:19:43
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1977
    Can you guys post pics of what is considered a black brindle vs. silver brindle? There are blue brindles as well?

    What is considered "not muddy"?
    Post edited by ayk at 2012-08-04 16:43:29
  • jellyfishjellyfish
    Posts: 1081
    not muddy: Toramoru Go Shirai . This is Toki's daddy.

    some_text
    http://pedigrees.akita-inu.com/dog.php?id=221

    I can't really find many good photos of him on the web that really describe him well, but this one is pretty good
    Post edited by jellyfish at 2012-08-04 16:54:54
  • jellyfishjellyfish
    Posts: 1081
    black brindle:
    of Shun'you Kensha
    some_text


    silver brindle:
    @timkim's very own awesome Karin, which I jacked from his thread of his brindles on this forum ;)
    some_text

  • That's not Toramaru's good side heh. I think your Toki or Zuma would be a better example.

    By "muddy" I refer to dogs that have a mottled pattern of brown and black like camo instead of clear distinct red and black stripes.
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
    Post edited by PoetikDragon at 2012-08-04 17:19:31
  • jellyfishjellyfish
    Posts: 1081
    Pshhh I disagree, this is my favorite side of Tora! :D
    Though his other side is more to standard, but not muddy either. Still really distinct.

    Toki is like that in regards to his father, his left side is significantly more clear than the other.
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1977
    So the difference between a black brindle and a silver brindle is amount of black striping? Black brindles can't be "non muddy"?
  • jellyfishjellyfish
    Posts: 1081
    That is my assumption, the amount of stripage. It's like you need either a dog to be so thick and muddy with stripes that the dog is "black brindle" or you need the dog to have not very much stripage at all. One extreme or the other. Which I am okay with, I like black brindles.

    I think it would be great if one could pinpoint and prove how to control the amount of stripage genetically. I've had discussions of this before, mainly just absorbing information, but it doesn't seem like there is an efficient way yet to breed for distinct, bold, sparse stripes, which, is what I prefer on a dog. I mean, you won't get a black brindle out of the red brindle I posted, but that is about as much as I know if one was to accurately predicting brindling.
  • Silver Brindle:
    image

    image

    Brindles need to have a clearly defined stripe pattern. In one of my many books this is how they defined the brindles. They only kept it to three styles:

    Kurotora, Akatora, and Shimofuri. All brindles have the following colors mixed into them: red, black, gray, and white. The amount of each color indicates which category it falls into. On all brindles, the thin stripes should be clearly seen. The black brindle (Kurotora) should be basically all black, gray and white; the red color should not be apparent. In a red brindle (Akatora), the should be a combination of all four colors, but red should be the most prevalent color.

    The subtype mentioned above is the Shimofuri(There is no English translation for this word.) However the word is derived from when frost covers the cut part of rice plants. These plants are cut from the base, and that appearance is called shimofuri. Can be based as a Kurotora or Akatora but it has white hair interwoven in the facial area. The white color is not spotted or streaked, but it weaves through the brindle pattern.

    Today people take Kurotora and define it further with black brindles that produce a blueish tint and silver brindles that represent the other end of the spectrum. I always thought it was interesting that the author didn't feel that the Shimofuri pattern could go into the body. This was written in 1990 and over time, terms and tastes have changed. I feel like I am seeing less and less Akatora's in the Akiho magazine and more and more Kurotora's (showing more silver than black in them.)
    www.akita-inu.com
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    Post edited by *JackBurton* at 2012-08-04 20:18:34
  • jellyfishjellyfish
    Posts: 1081
    wait, I"m still a little confused as to what Shimofuri is. does it occur on a part of the body? I guess I am confused because I have always seen brindle as black stripes -overlaying- a white and red background, so I don't really see how white stripes can weave -through- a brindling pattern. And by no means am I disagreeing, I really just don't understand?

    I've heard that the brindling on the legs of an akita should look as if they just walked through snow, fading gradually and from the white socks to the deep brindling of the upper leg. (except kurotora, that would be impossible) Does this correlate with shimofuri or am I completely way off?
  • According to the author, it occurs in the face. If we look the silver I posted and Tim's Karin, I think what the author is talking about is the white striping jumps out on the silver female that I posted where as the black stripes dominant on Karin.

    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • Red Brindle - image

    Shimofuri
    image

    image

    Kurotora
    image

    image

    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
    Post edited by *JackBurton* at 2012-08-05 11:36:11
  • I have seen brindles that lack a white blaze or visible urajiro in the face, but do seem to have "greying" (not due to age) on the muzzle and cheeks. Its kind of salt-and-peppery and seems most common on silver brindles. Maybe that's shimofuri?

    Google images for the term reveals that its a name of very marbled cut of meat:
    image
    image

    By the way @*JackBurton* I visited that puppy (posted above). He's no longer a silver! His coat is very ... unique.
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
  • The meat is the perfect example.

    That's cool about ??? does anybody know his name yet lol. Can't wait to see him this winter.
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • Carol told me his name numerous times but I have forgotten it, haha.
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2081
    Oh wow that meat looks heavenly!
    image
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1977
    Is the shimofuri age-dependant? Not geriatric greying but taking say a year or two to develop?

    @poeticdragon - Is there any indication that it's "G series" in effect?

    Post edited by ayk at 2012-08-04 23:24:02
  • timkimtimkim
    Posts: 377
    shimofuri
    Photobucket

    and here is another good example of good red brindle.
    Photobucket
    Photobucket
    one of very nice red brindle in japan. Unkai. won 2nd in 126th hq show.

    Photobucket
    another red brindle. won 3rd in same show. but I don't prefer this color.

    It's really hard to find border for silver and black.
    My karin is more black brindle. she was really black when she was pup and getting more grey. and tachi is more red brindle.
    i personally don't like light red(orange color) brindle. it's just my preference but I do like this Unkai type of red.

    here is example of black brindle.
    Karin's dam
    Photobucket
    Post edited by timkim at 2012-08-05 02:38:59
  • timkimtimkim
    Posts: 377
    you can't really describe silver brindle=white stripes on face.
    Photobucket
    karins sire. he is silver brindle.
    Photobucket
    same dog after 1 year. i don't think this dog is black brindle but has black stripes.
    also japanese breeder consider these dogs to be silver brindle.
    Photobucket
    Photobucket


    my question. what do you think about this brindle color below? is this silver? black? Kozaki(breeder) told me this female has best color coat ever from brindle.(not overall quality but coat only^^)
    Photobucket
    Post edited by timkim at 2012-08-05 02:37:43
  • jellyfishjellyfish
    Posts: 1081
    as I must point out, being a photographer, photographs can be very deceiving, especially when judging Akitas online because you have to account for: "did they stand in a bad pose for 3 second while the camera flashed, were they out of coat, was the camera angle bad for the angle of the fur, was the photo taken when the dog was so concerned about something else that their tail fell off their back, ect..."

    BUT having said that, I think that the akita you asked about, (presumably female?), her coat looks great. Color doesn't matter, it is the quality of the coat. The fur looks to stand at a 90' angle, or you know, pretty close to that.... i don't think any dog's coat stands exactly 90 degrees, but you know that i mean.

    Also, to judge from that photo, it cannot be said if the dog is silver or black brindle simply because the lighting sucks in the photo. There are so many shadows coupling with the angle of the dog facing the camera that it is impossible to make a definite decision. Sorry, but the lighting isn't informative enough to answer your question.

    I would recommend photographing a dog inside, have the body face towards a -very open- window, and photograph with the sunlight shining on the dog. The light will be diluted at best, but still be harsh enough to bring out the brindling. Trust me, I am a photographer with an iphone. (and also a canon 5D markII, but that is not what i use to photograph my pup most often).

    All are good looking dogs nevertheless! A photograph can never lie about soundness :)
  • I think that's why brindle never gets broken up into defined subgroups. Figuring out red brindle vs black is easy. That is why I like the definition that I used as it defines a brindle by the largest % of a certain color.
    www.akita-inu.com
    www.Japanese-Akitas.com
    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • I really don't like the heads on the early dogs in the photo. I know that is how the show the dog but sometimes it gives our dogs the akita version of a double chin or double forehead for that matter. I like the head set for the ones you posted later in this topic much much better.

    Jf is right on the money with the camera comment. I almost always find myself using lightroom just for the fill-light feature.
    www.akita-inu.com
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  • timkimtimkim
    Posts: 377
    There r not that many expert photograHer in akita world. Lol fun part of brindle is color. U get different color every time u see brindle.
  • timkimtimkim
    Posts: 377
    Yeah japanese handlers pull their leash too much sometimes and trying to make their dogs head looks bigger.
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    @jellyfart "Trust me, I am a photographer with an iPhone"
    LOL I'm sorry but that just had me cracking up, watch out she's armed and dangerous! :)
    Speaking of iPhones, it's funny that a lot of my friends ask what kind of camera I use and 95% of the time I'm just using my iPhone 4S.

    These are all really fantastic dogs and I'm learning a lot about JA just lurking. Can't wait to meet one in real life.
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
  • @cezeig Come meet Princess ConeHead, California is great! lol
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
  • ceziegcezieg
    Posts: 1050
    @poeticdragon Next time I'm in-state I'll definitely send you a message :) I was telling Tara about my planned move to northern Nevada in January, so some road tripping is definitely on the To-Do list! I was also born in Walnut Creek and have most of my dad's family in the Bay area, love California!
    Ren, Kai Ken (f, intact) 02-01-2012
    Kirin, Alaskan Noble Companion Dog (f, intact) 05-04-2015
    Post edited by cezieg at 2012-08-06 10:49:19
  • teer912teer912
    Posts: 14
    these pics just made me want a brindle akita so much T_T
    I'm waiting on PoetikDragon to come back from the Japan trip and see if my puppy questionnaire arrive :D

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