Choking herself...in a harness!!!
As Beth will tell you, Dragoon has started doing something pretty insane during walks. She chokes herself to the point where she's constantly "wheezing" for lack of a better term...and in a harness!!! We've tried two different types of harnesses, and yet she manages to choke herself regardless! We've also tried clipping the leash to the front of the harness, but then she ties up her front leg & can't walk. Have also tried walking her on her collar, which, oddly enough she chokes herself less on, but still does it nonetheless.
Not sure what to do. She's still only 6/7 months old, so I don't want to go out & spend a ton of money on a harness she'll outgrow, but at the same time it's practically impossible to take her for a walk this way!
Yes, I've tried the turning when she pulls, using treats, etc. Doesn't work, apparently, choking herself is more rewarding.
Any advice / ideas / help guys would be really appreciated! ~
Not sure what to do. She's still only 6/7 months old, so I don't want to go out & spend a ton of money on a harness she'll outgrow, but at the same time it's practically impossible to take her for a walk this way!
Yes, I've tried the turning when she pulls, using treats, etc. Doesn't work, apparently, choking herself is more rewarding.
Any advice / ideas / help guys would be really appreciated! ~
Comments
I'd just try retraining her to walk on a leash, from step one. I did the clicker training with Conker and it worked great. With Juneau, that didn't work so much, so I had to walk back and forth back and forth (for days) until she quit rushing out ahead of me. It's difficult but after a while Dragoon should get it that you won't put up with nonsense and that she has to listen to you, and try to never give her the chance to pull like that. If she pulls because of another dog, turn and walk away or have her sit nicely until the dog is gone, or whatever else the distraction might be. You might have to start inside or in your yard and work up from there.
I'm pretty liberal with leash manners. I don't require my dogs to walk beside me at a heel all the time and do let them roam, sniff, and pull a little, but if one of my dogs did this constantly I would enforce (nicely) stricter rules about walking on a leash until the dog no longer did the undesirable behavior. If that means walks are no longer fun, so be it. I'd rather have my dog be bored than hurt themselves on a walk.
Sorry my tips are so lame. It's easier when you can just pick up the misbehaving dog and march home (this REALLY pisses Conker off and usually works in getting him to listen) instead of have to deal with whatever their issue is.
Like @Losech, I'm a bit 'liberal' in our regular leash walks and let him walk ahead and take his time sniffing around and checking the news but he hardly pulls anymore unless he sees something that antagonizes his prey drive. Even then, he's easily brought back to my side (we did this training, originally, on a flat collar and LOTS of very stinky, high-value meat treats (hot dog, steak, chicken, fish).
Training my foster Bloodhound more recently, the stop-and-go method worked a lot more than anything else. Stop when the leash is tight and go when it's relaxed. It took me an hour to go a block the first time, but it got better from there.
How much running around time (on or off leash) does Dragoon get? It might be easier to train her after an exhausting off-leash run or a day of daycare or anything she can get out all that energy before training for leash walking.
Hope this helped or others have more imput!
http://www.dtdogcollars.com/DT-Harness-High-quality-Nylon-Dog-Harness-p/dth6.htm
You could use long wooden spoons to reward non pulling. Place peanut butter or cream cheese on spoon and stop be a tree when dog pulls. When dog comes back or eases up, reward. Also teaches the dog to work along side to stay at pace. Work in the drive way or short distances and then over a block at a time. The gobs on the spoon should last you if you only allow a small bit at a time. Big bits for a job well done or end a session.
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As to how she does it...NO idea!!!! LOL I wouldn't say she's "choking" per say, more putting pressure on her throat so she can't breathe well. [ horrible, horrible rhasping sound as she walks ]
These are the type of harnesses we've tried on her:
- www.petco.com/product/109938/Bison-Pet-Real-Tree-Hardwoods-Adjustable-Nylon-Dog-Harness.aspx
- http://www.petco.com/product/118706/Coastal-Pet-New-Earth-Adjustable-Personalized-Soy-Comfort-Wrap-Dog-Harness-in-Cranberry.aspx
I've tried the ezywalk, [ found one I had for Wraith as a pup ] however, she loosens the harness so much I worry she'll slip out of it. [ that and she tangles herself up in it, since it clips from the front ]
We're pretty liberal about how they walk too. I don't care if they pull or walk in front, I would just prefer they don't choke themselves in the process! lol
Guess I'll go back to bare-bones training for now!...wish me luck. hahaha
@sunyata - Thanks Casey! But I'd feel horrible if something happened to it :x [ you know how dogs are! lol ]
I vote for a head collar or anti-pull harness of some kind. Maybe you can take her for a quick run or bike ride first to take the edge off.
ETA: I also find that easywalk harnesses loosen so much that they're not very effective. The sides don't seem well-designed, either, since the vertical strap isn't continuous (it has those o-rings with straps that attach to it and can therefore swivel around and don't keep the harness in place). I also think that limited slip thing in the front is counter productive. It just makes it so the leash can slide to either side. I think a front attachment that was as stationary as possible would work better. With the easywalk, everything slides and loosens so much that the leash is essentially attached at the side of the dog's chest, which really doesn't work.
I've been thinking that I'd make an anti-pull harness that stayed put and see how that works.
If you make that stays put, let me know how it works!!! ~
The alaskan collars are really inexpensive if you want to just give it a try. They're used for escaping breeds like Siberians. I have these on all my dogs all the time and they can also be used during walks without the fear of them slipping out.
http://www.alpineoutfitters.net/secure/scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=22
The description says not for chewers, but that's mainly for tethered dogs who pull against the tether and create just enough length to chew off the collar.
With my guys, I let them have the opportunity to pull with the use of pulling harnesses and tethering them to a belt around my waist. By walking them this way, it has allowed me to work on loose leash while hooked to a collar without having to restrict their walks. It works pretty well this way, they learn not to pull with a collar and get that pulling energy out on harness. They also tire out quicker with pulling since they are putting more effort to walk the same amount of steps.
My Malamute friend also has soft slip collars from these folks. Their webbing is very soft and the store makes claims that it doesn't break hairs.
http://www.whitepineoutfitters.com/catalog_category.cfm?queries_index=index6&title_bar=Soft Web Collars&ProductCode=1
Those are the exact same collars I use and they work really well. I personally hate the rolled leather collars. The dye rubs off and leaves a greasy ring.
limited slip/martingales are good so dogs can't escape them, but for a puller, it does not help with the choking themselves thing at all. Any collar seems problematic since the press against them so hard.
Wish I had some more advice about the pulling against the harness, but I don't. I've tried most of the harnesses above too. I like the Comfort Flex harness, but I can tell from experience it won't solve your problem--I had Bel in one yesterday and she was managing to choke herself in it, though I can't quite figure out how she does it.
I wonder about the ruff wear harness? In addition to the regular ones, I have a really cool one for Leo called "the stow and go" which is very light and thin, and it has a V front which looks like it should NOT cause the choking problem. The problem is I don't think they make them anymore--I was able to get one on discount because they were discontinued and had only xxs left (which he will soon outgrow).
I also think the halti or gentle leader might work, but it is true they hate them...
I tried the peanut butter on a wooden spoon thing. Worked for the first 5 minutes of the walk, then she got bored! lol The whole "be a tree thing" isn't really the problem, as if I stop walking...she stops pulling & just sits! haha
For now, I've clipped the leash to the front of her regular harness, & while it makes it awkward for her to walk, it also stops her from pulling / choking herself on it.
I think when she gets older, I'll get her a nice leather agitation harness. [ used in bite sport training so the dogs don't hurt themselves ] Unless of course, I can train her out of it / she outgrows this phase first
I don't know why the rolled leather collar works, but it does. I suspect it is the shape and the fact that it is thin. I like leather, though, because they are softer on the dog and on my hands, so I always get leather. (It didn't stain Oskar's fur at all). It was pretty cheap, too, at the pet store I got it at. Like $15 or less.
As a quick fyi, peanutbutter with spoon is not supposed to be used for a long walk or high distraction environment but in short training sessions at 5 min intervals in the most boring area, building up of d's over days or weeks following the "three d principal" http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/three-d’s-dog-training-and-why-you-need-know-about-them
Some dogs find peanut butter a bit much or just do not care for it as much as other things particularly since it can make them thirsty.
The drive to be on the move and mental distraction (excitement of a wide environment) certainly seems to be the motivator for your dog. Being a tree does work in most cases BUT it has to be taken in baby steps with the right reward. One session or even 5 is not gonna do it. Using a pelt to tug or allowing a go sniff is a reward that can be used in place of peanut butter. If you go that route with pelt do not allow access to it at other times, only for training on you and with your permission or command to take it..
So yep in this case you are better off with a harness for anything more for walking in reg daily. You could try short training sessions and change directions before leash tightens keeping the dogs on its toes for the unexpected. Again this has to be done in short sessions and expect the other free time to be just that.
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pic: http://imgur.com/RaACg
@Sangmort Yeah I feel you on this, Tsune occasionally gets excited and will choke himself somehow on his harness too, thanks for posting this we could use the tips too lol.
So far I haven't noticed it leaving a ring around Conker's neck like flat collars do.