• kimputaikimputai
    Posts: 245
    Ok, here is my problem. I have a Tosa from Canada with a UKC pedigree. I tried to register the dog at the FCI, but the refused it, because the UKC is not a recognized organisation by the FCI. They said that I would have to ask a Certified pedigree and a registration certificate from the American kennel Club, but a Tosa isn't registered there. Besides, the dog is a Canadian. Searched the internet for some info, the UKC and the AKC don't seem to be getting along well, but that's not my problem really. So according to the rules of the FCI and the AKC my dog isn't purebred......... So, any ideas?

    My dog has to run her AD the 6th of may, but that organisation really don't care what kind of pedigree the dog has.
    Post edited by kimputai at 2012-03-17 08:21:52
  • PoetikDragonPoetikDragon
    Posts: 2875
    Why do you care about the FCI? Why doesn't it have a CKC pedigree?

    Anyway, yeah, America and Canada are not members of the FCI.
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    Post edited by PoetikDragon at 2012-03-17 08:31:41
  • kimputaikimputai
    Posts: 245
    Why do I care about the FCI? Because I live in Europe and have to deal with them.
  • kimputaikimputai
    Posts: 245
    That doesn't mean I agree what they do, BTW.
  • kimputaikimputai
    Posts: 245
    And the CKC doesn't register Tosa.
  • MirkaMMirkaM
    Posts: 1248
    "Why do you care about the FCI?" Easy answer for people who don't live in US because it's the only worldwide kennel club! In Europe (as well in Asia, Africa etc.) all countries main kennel clubs are members of FCI.
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  • kimputaikimputai
    Posts: 245
    @MirkaM you are right. But that doesn't mean that the FCI does a great job, the most important thing that they do is make money out of dogshows and pedigrees. They really don't care about the downfall of some breeds.................it's just the only official organisation where most countries have to deal with.
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3975
    What about seeing if you can register them under the Japanese Kennel Club and then FCI?
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  • MirkaMMirkaM
    Posts: 1248
    @kimputai Do you have some kind of special register in your country? In Finland we have special register and both of my dogs belong to that register (because both are originally registered to not-FCI recognized pedigree).
    Kai will lay down its life to protect its master.
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  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    My understanding is that you are required to registered with each country that is in FCI. So if you show in finland you need to get one there, mexico is another, etc etc. My question is where where the parents registered from? Do they have UKC pedigrees as well?

    I also noticed that AKC will take certain dogs with UKC pedigrees.

    The bad news -and I'm sure you looked at the website:

    "We have received many e-mails from around the world, but one that did catch my intention was a person that wrote from Europe, that bought a female Tosa - Inu in the United States for forty-five hundred euro’s with a UKC (United Kennel Club) registration. The breeder assured the buyer that the puppy would have an International certification by the FCI. The puppy’s parents were brought from Japan but were not certified by the Preservation Committee or the JKC in Japan. Therefore, the American breeder was trying to register the puppy’s parents in Mexico in an attempt to obtain an international register. This procedure is illegal and does not meet the requirements established by the FCI.

    In order to counteract this type of fraud the Japanese Kennel Club and the FCI require breeders to implant a Micro-chip or ID in their Tosa in order to receive a Certified Export Pedigree or any International Certification. The information provided in the implant then must be confirmed by the JKC.

    The processing of a sport pedigree for a Tosa in the JKC only lasts a year. If more than a year goes by from the date of importation of the Tosa and the new owner has not received their certification or registration, this means that the application has not been legally submitted to the JKC."

    http://www.shaku1.com/registration.html

    That said, I would look at the parents. If they are UKC then I think you are out of luck but if they are imports you can look at getting them registered.
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  • MirkaMMirkaM
    Posts: 1248
    "My understanding is that you are required to registered with each country that is in FCI. So if you show in finland you need to get one there, mexico is another, etc"

    This isnt' true. It would be catastrophe if there was rule like this.
    Kai will lay down its life to protect its master.
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  • kimputaikimputai
    Posts: 245
    @JackBurton thanks for the help, but the person that you linked imports Tosa and sells them to Europe on a Puerto Rico pedigree, so that info doesn't mean much to me. Dogs with FCI papers have more value? In fact it's just a piece of paper with names of the dog, it says nothing about the dog itself. So why all the problems.
    Never heard of a sport Pedigree from the JKC, especially for a Tosa, Tosa's that sport you can count on the fingers of one hand. So, I should contact the JKC for the registration of a dog? The JKC doesn't care for a Tosa.
    Strange, a friend of mine bought a dog in Europe, with a FCI pedigree, and could register the dog with the UKC without a single problem.

    @MirkaM....no, we dont have another register like you mentioned. If my dog passes her AD, it will be written in the working dog files, but you won't see that title on her pedigree.

    @Calia...thanks for thinking with me....wouldn't that be strange, there are some yokozuna lines in her pedigree, but most of the Tosa's in her pedigree the Japanese never heard of....
  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    Maybe it is an issue for when Akita Inus are sent to Europe. But I've been told from a couple sources that they need to be re-registered with that countries national registry and given new numbers. We have a JACA member with AKC registered JAs who needed to do that to show in Mexico. Once again this might be JA only.

    If that is not the case that is great but I feel bad for the people that are having to go through this each time.
    www.akita-inu.com
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  • kimputaikimputai
    Posts: 245
    Funny thing.....I got a UKC pedigree, have to get a JKC or AKC pedigree so I can change that for an FCI pedigree............how stupid can it be.
  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    Sadly very stupid. On your pedigree where are the parents from? Are they UKC as well, CKC, JKC?
    www.akita-inu.com
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    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
  • kimputaikimputai
    Posts: 245
    The mother is from Europe, she has an FCI pedigree. The father is only UKC registered, just like all of the dogs in his bloodline. There are Yokozuna and Ozeki dogs from Japan in the pedigree, but they are all UKC registered. I think the UKC doesn't make to much fuzz where the dog comes from. In fact, at this moment in the eyes of the AKC and the FCI my dog isn't purebred............
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    Will the FCI accept AKC-Foundation Stock Service registered Tosas?

    If so, then an option would be to try to use the UKC papers on your pup to get AKC-FSS.
  • *JackBurton**JackBurton*
    Posts: 1369
    Sadly your issue isn't UKC it lies with the agreement that FCI signed with AKC item 3 and their agreement with CKC item 2 and 6

    http://www.fci.be/uploaded_files/Letter of understanding FCI_AKC_16072008.pdf

    "It is up to FCI to decide about the registration of dogs born in the USA belonging to breeds not recognized by the AKC"

    http://www.fci.be/uploaded_files/CKC-FCI.pdf



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    pedigrees.akita-inu.com
    Post edited by *JackBurton* at 2012-03-17 16:05:08
  • kimputaikimputai
    Posts: 245
    @JackBurton thanks for the help. I did send emails to the AKC, CKC and FCI, see what the answers will be. Even the breeder in Canada will call the AKC.
    @ayk my dog isn't a pup, she will be 3 years old in June. She was born in Canada, sold to a person in Belgium but he didn't register the dog.
    In september they asked me if I could take the dog for whatever reason. Or else the dog had to return to Canada, that's the agreement the breeder made with the pup buyers. There were already plans for a single litter breeding with my male, so I took her in. Never thought that the UKC wasn't recognized by the FCI or other organisations. Personally I don't care about a pedigree, some pupbuyers do. My only thing was to breed a litter in which 4 AD titled dogs were used, never happened in Tosa breeding before. Because AD titles aren't mentioned on a pedigree anymore, I personally don't care about a piece of paper with some names, it's the dog that really matters.

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