“Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket. But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.” --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear
"Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination." --Brandon Sanderson, the First Ideal from The Stormlight Archive.
I've been looking through the blog and man, I am REALLY interested in these dogs. They seem to be kind of all over the place with size, color, and body but their faces all have that same look to them - large and triangular.
I like their look a lot, but I'm really interested in learning more about them. Does the breed have a written standard or is there any good (English) resource for information? I seem to only be finding a lot of pictures and little blurbs about them, but not a lot of information on their temperament, health, etc.
Love the black
and I (think I?) found a few pictures from the blog of the Jomon on boar(?) & after a hunt
Those are cool pics! Honestly, my shibas are nearly the right size (though they don't look like Jomon Shibas). I'm pretty sure Bel could take down a large animal, if she had help. Or at least seeing what she did to Toby, and how tenacious she is....
Anyway, very, very cool to see Shibas hunting.
Lisa, Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akita), and Leo (Kai Ken)
Furthermore,JSRC and Shibainukenkyukai became indipendent of Shibaho. http://www.jomon-shiba.com/http://shibainu48.la.coocan.jp/ Time and reason are not known. I have 2 Jomonshibas.One of the begining is from JSRC the 2nd one is from Shibaho. Less than 20 years ago separated.Because,if the pedigree of 2dogs is seen,it understand.
My dogs are belonging to three associations. Nippo, Shibaho and Jsrc. I am thankful to three associations, it does not have a strong sense of belonging. I would like to make the remark which maintains a neutral position and leads to prosperity of kind of the Shiba in this forum.
I began bleeding of the Nippo Shiba 17 years ago. Here is my old home page. I have already forgotten the password. Since it moved out, I am not in the address currently written.
Nippo shiba is popular, Jomon shiba is few rare in Japan. Jomon shiba moves more actively than a Nippo shiba and violently. Nippo shiba is suitable for those who connect a dog. He walks according to an owner. To those who want to run a dog freely in a mountain like me, Jomon Shiba is more interesting.
The Jomon Shiba is more and more interesting to me. It seems like each new thing I learn makes me want to learn even more about them. I wish they were more readily available so I could see one in person.
One puppy is sent to USA from Shibaho on December 4, this year. It is written that a puppy is in the Akita branch now. There is a e-mail button at the bottom of this page. http://www.shibaho.net/
It is written that there is no puppy now, we are waiting for reservation. E-mail can be sent with the blue button of the rightmost of six. http://jomon-shiba.sakura.ne.jp/
In Japan, English is compulsory education. There are much those who have already forgotten. A simple and short sentence is kind.
Nippo shiba excels other dogs of the same size in physical strength. The physical strength of Jomon is further excellent. Can find it raising two at once. my experience is only two jomon, I think that there is individual specificity.
I have the experience using Nippo shiba in boar hunting.
If there is the sign of a wild boar. flee, barks in a safe distance, bark close, goes to bite in the same blood line dogs. After losing, there are a dog which regains self-confidence, and a dog which cannot regain self-confidence. My 2Jomon can not fight to boar now.
The wild boar is stronger at a large place and night. A small dog becomes so strong that a enemy becomes large at place with many miscellaneous trees which is hard to move.
Many hunter of Pheasant and Copper pheasant use Jomon in Japan. My Jomon Kuro likes to pursues those birds. I dont want a bird. It is pleasant only by finding it, Because there is little meat.
I hear that the Jomon is use for bear hunting. in the Tohoku district. The relative of Wanta is also playing an active part. I do not know group hunting or one person hunting. I do not have the experience bear hunting. I think that only strong dog is killed conversely. It cannot fight, unless it is a dog wiser than a bear.
My Jomon shiba. Black is Kuro female, April, last year birth. Brown is Wanta male, July, this year birth. The dog of the picture which attached the blue rope with round plate written 114 is a father of Wanta by Crispy uploaded. The photograph at the time of their being pupies.
I feel like their head shape resembles a Shikoku a bit. That is interesting to me.
Dave, proudly owned by Joey (Shiba Inu), Tyson (Kai Ken), and PRG's Mason Julien McDieserton III, a.k.a. Diesel (Labrador Retriever). "My opinion may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right"
I think that small size Nihonken needs to move more sharply. Because small size Nihonken cannot win medium size by power. I feel functional beauty in Jomonshiba.
My dog's parents' photograph will be uploaded if an owner's permission is obtained. Please wait.
Wanta and parents' photograph. Photo by Komachi kennel in Shibaho. http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/qwywh515 Appearance differs between Nippo and a Jomon greatly now. It is a result of the difference in standard of the selection criteria for about 50 years.
I'd be very curious to know how they stack up as big game hunters. Given how morphologically they have become so similar to the shikas, and especially the shikoku, I wonder what working instincts have varied along with that.
Does anyone know if there's an english translation of their standard somewhere? (*coughs* @TheWalrus *coughs*) :-)
Dave, proudly owned by Joey (Shiba Inu), Tyson (Kai Ken), and PRG's Mason Julien McDieserton III, a.k.a. Diesel (Labrador Retriever). "My opinion may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right"
I don't have a copy of the Shibaho standard in Japanese. I do have visiting the Shibaho HQ on my list of things to do when I have time, and I've always been interested in the breed. I think that physically they've got what it takes to be very agile hunters, especially in comparison to the standard NIPPO Shiba. I asked Shibaho recently about anyone hunting big game with Jomon Shiba, and they mentioned that there are a lot of bird hunters, but not that many big game hunters.
The standard of Jomonshiba is together with NIPPO. It is an abstract sentence. about 50 years ago, the late Mr. Nakajo differed in the method of the understanding, and he parted from NIPPO. The late Mr. Nakajo is father of Jomon shiba. I feel functional beauty in Jomonshiba.
If Kuro meets with a deer and a wild boar, she barks. It is not long time. It returns within 5 minutes. She likes a bird by nature. She chased bigger pheasant than herself at 75 days old. The pheasant ran and escaped, without flying.
I think that she is able to fight big game if young friends will increase in number in the future and I continue wishing. I heard from both Shibaho Akita branch and JSRC, Jomon being used for bear hunting in the Tohoku district now.
I think it dependent on an owner that can wake the instinct of a dog.
@matagi1961 - Is the standard for the Jomon Shiba focused on working ability? Or is it a more common conformation standard?
Dave, proudly owned by Joey (Shiba Inu), Tyson (Kai Ken), and PRG's Mason Julien McDieserton III, a.k.a. Diesel (Labrador Retriever). "My opinion may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right"
Since I do not have experience which appeared in the exhibition, I do not understand. Many hunters ask for the performance of a dog than beauty. I think that standard is a standard for examining impartially. I would like to make a wise dog.I am satisfied when appearance does not change large from a standard. The method of a standard understanding is different for many people.
There is a word of Japanese 姿芸両全(shigeiryouzen). It is my ideal. 姿 is Appearance.芸 is work performance. 両全 is Both are good.
I live in the environment where it is the side of a mountain and can release a dog safely. There are few people who live in the same environment as me in Japan. There are much those who cannot release a dog in the same environment as me.
Those who cannot manipulate a dog can win at an exhibition. Moreover, it can become an executive of an organization. The staff of SHIBAHO corresponding to Walrus has a high possibility that he was such a person.
@ttddinh - I'll need to find the thread to remember the details, but roughly, the Shikoku in NIPPO have been moving from having a very flat stop/longer face to having more stop and a rounder face. Their body build has also moved towards a narrower frame.
photo by JSRC http://jomon-shiba.sakura.ne.jp/ Jomon shiba have a big mouth and tooth as compared with the body. However, there is a difference according to sex and age.
@ttdinh: Take a look at Brad's Facebook pictures of Ahi and Loa with profiles, then take a close look at the profile pictures of Kaiju and ChoCho. Between their two ages is *I think* the time that Nippo decided to move to a rounder face, shorter muzzle, with a more noticeable stop. Shigs and Brad can correct me if I'm wrong.
@ayk and @crimson02-- thanks for the clarifications. In general, why did NIPPO make those changes? IMPO, I think Ahi is absolutely gorgeous...I wonder if I could still find imports that have the "old-style" of shikokus...or are they now banned/prohibited?
@crimson02--Is Kurenai considered old style or new style? Maybe it's just me but I feel that she has quite a mix. Her look is not quite new style as Kaiju's
photo by Kyomachi kennel in Shibaho. http://blog.goo.ne.jp/wabisuke_1964/c/088c8d7ee8dfea9f8fb1e4d89403f926 This is Wanta's father's grandchild's photograph. Jomon shiba have the belly which went up upwards thinly. It is called "巻き腹" ( makibara ) in Japanese. The dog with makibara is excellent in the athletic ability. He has a beautiful makibara especially.
I can see why you would say the longer dog has the better athletic ability. Dogs with a longer loin tend to be able to maneuver around better and make tighter turns. Shorter backs are becoming more popular in certain breeds, to the detriment of working ability. We can see this with terriers in the show rings, (and of course Shibas). The Earth dogs are getting so short backed, that they are unable to turn around in the tunnels in Go To Earth trials, and have to be dug out. Extremely long loins are also not desirable, due to greater risk of back injury. The Jomon looks quite athletic.
Hokusei Kashinoki Hokkaido and Shiba Inu masakadoshiba@hotmail.com www.masakadoshiba@wordpress.com www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
Thank you for the comment. It seems that I gave misunderstanding to lindsayt. Since the study of my English is insufficient, it apologizes. I think that Jomonshiba is not suitable for hunting in a tunnel. It is a form of the belly. I did not want to say about the back, the loins, and a leg. There is individual specificity also in the makibara in Jomonshiba now.I think that from now on, it will evolve into a form like greyhound. Dachshund with the beautiful makibara is in my neighborhood.
How interesting. Could you elaborate exactly on what is entailed by makibara? My understanding of the NIPPO standard is that there is also a tucked belly so I wanted to hear more detail on what distinguishes this trait.
Also, any reason for the move to a more greyhound type build? An interpretation of the Jomon shiba standard? It sounds like it has mire to do with appearance than function. I'm curious in particular since one of my pups is at least superficially built more like a Jomon bodywise but her headpiece is still much more the NIPPO standard.
I'll probably edit to add a photo.
Post edited by violet_in_seville at 2011-12-21 15:28:50
It sees from side the line of the belly is going up upwards greatly. It may become "tucked belly" when makibara is translated into English. Many people of connection with Jomonshiba are said that makibara is good. and I also consider so by experience. If two kinds are kept simultaneously, a difference is known well. The direction of Jomon moves violently. I am glad when a Nippo follows me like a gentleman. I love both similarly. I found this video here. http://ameblo.jp/bososhishi/page-7.html#main
I think that the dog with a thick belly cannot be moved sharply.Ten years or more ago,there were few Nipposhiba with makibara. Greyhound is my overstatement. I think that from now on, the difference in the appearance of Nippo and Jomon will spread.
Ahi's 'type' is not necessarily 'old type'. There has been, and still is some variation in the Shikoku. I may have given the impression that Ahi's type is an older type, but that was just from a conversation I had with some NIPPO members. That type was popular a while back, and there were quite a few dogs carrying those traits. They haven't necessarily been bred away from, you just don't see them much anymore.