Jomon Shiba
  • TheWalrusTheWalrus
    Posts: 1617
    Here's a link to a blog about Jomon Shiba, lots of videos up http://matagi1961-matagi.blogspot.com/

    http://nihonken.blogspot.com/
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    They are super cool!
    image
    ----------- BradAnderson.org | YamabushiKennel.org | HakuzanKennel.org ----------
  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    they are more wildier looking and leggier than Shibas!
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3016
    So cute! I love that video. There head shape reminds me of more wild look kinda like a singer or dingo more, but different of coarse.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • HeidiHeidi
    Posts: 3379
    So, do people with the Jomon shibas use them for hunting, or are they more focused on looking primitive?
    Rakka 落下(Shikoku Ken), Sosuke 宗介 (Kai Ken), Hester, Stephanie, and Batgirl(cats)
    image
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 3663
    Great video! They are really beautiful. And yeah, @Saya, they do remind me of singers a bit too.
    Lisa, Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akita), and Leo (Kai Ken)
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2082
    I really like these guys. If I had to choose a normal Shiba or a Jomon based purely on appearance, I'd go with the Jomon.
    image
  • ShikokuSpiritShikokuSpirit
    Posts: 2228
    I LOVE that puppy!
    Areyarisu Shikoku Kenimage

    Shoushuu | Kotomi | Maika | Asra | Ranala

    Other Canine Members of The Airreyalis Crew: Keno & Zander (Alaskan Klee Kai) | Saphira (Belgian Groenendael) | Naishka & Takashi (Yakutian Laika)
  • jujeejujee
    Posts: 724
    omg that puppy is so cute! lol
    Life with the Inus
  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    Posts: 2215
    Wow, Ichi's build more closely resembles that "type"

    Jesse
    Jesse Pelayo

  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1934
    That is one cute puppy!

    The Jomon Shiba is super interesting. :)
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
    RIP Amy (Border Collie)

    “Anyone can love a thing because. That's as easy as putting a penny in your pocket.
    But to love something despite. To know the flaws and love them too. That is rare and pure and perfect.”
    --Patrick Rothfuss, A Wise Man's Fear

    "Life before death. Strength before weakness. Journey before destination."
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  • Shiba-TrioShiba-Trio
    Posts: 3
    Thank you for that video! That's a really interesting breed.
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1894
    I figured I'd post this here (though others may have seen it already). I found it while searching for information on the Jomon Shiba

    They are ridiculously adorable.


    image
    http://www.shibaho.net/aiken/07sakura_kumagorou/030810d_6.html

    http://jomon-shiba.com/Welcome/welcome.html
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
    Post edited by Crispy at 2011-11-19 19:34:22
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2082
    I think they are totally awesome. If I ever get the chance to own one I'll be super happy.
    image
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1894
    image
    Is this a Jomon Shiba?

    It came from http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kikaku_002/e/7f8a35368993719b620e77c86bc45c65
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    The blog does say its a Jomon Shiba. Even specifically says that it's not a Shikoku.
    Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
  • SangmortSangmort
    Posts: 5510
    Reminds me of a Saarloos Wolfhound or a Czech wolfhound. Very cool. ~
    - Osy ~
    Kismet Collars
    Post edited by Sangmort at 2011-12-03 18:19:32
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1894
    I've been looking through the blog and man, I am REALLY interested in these dogs. They seem to be kind of all over the place with size, color, and body but their faces all have that same look to them - large and triangular.

    I like their look a lot, but I'm really interested in learning more about them. Does the breed have a written standard or is there any good (English) resource for information? I seem to only be finding a lot of pictures and little blurbs about them, but not a lot of information on their temperament, health, etc.

    Love the black
    image

    and I (think I?) found a few pictures from the blog of the Jomon on boar(?) & after a hunt
    image

    image

    image
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
    Post edited by Crispy at 2011-12-03 18:30:41
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2082
    I love these dogs, they are so neat. I'm also curious about the standard stuff too, since I've never really seen one for them.
    image
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    Nice! Looks like the dogs got a deer too. I absolutly love seeing NKs hunting and seeing Jomon shibas doing that is just awesome.
    Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 3663
    Those are cool pics! Honestly, my shibas are nearly the right size (though they don't look like Jomon Shibas). I'm pretty sure Bel could take down a large animal, if she had help. Or at least seeing what she did to Toby, and how tenacious she is....

    Anyway, very, very cool to see Shibas hunting.
    Lisa, Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akita), and Leo (Kai Ken)
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    Hello! Please allow,aithough it is poor English.
    What I know is written about Jomon shiba.
    Nippo and Shibaho separated at A.D.1959.This is because the form of an ideal is different.
    http://www.nihonken-hozonkai.or.jp/index.html http://www.shibaho.net/

    Furthermore,JSRC and Shibainukenkyukai became indipendent of Shibaho.
    http://www.jomon-shiba.com/ http://shibainu48.la.coocan.jp/
    Time and reason are not known.
    I have 2 Jomonshibas.One of the begining is from JSRC the 2nd one is from Shibaho.
    Less than 20 years ago separated.Because,if the pedigree of 2dogs is seen,it understand.

  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    My dogs are belonging to three associations. Nippo, Shibaho and Jsrc.
    I am thankful to three associations, it does not have a strong sense of belonging.
    I would like to make the remark which maintains a neutral position and leads to prosperity of kind of the Shiba in this forum.

    I began bleeding of the Nippo Shiba 17 years ago. Here is my old home page. I have already forgotten the password.
    Since it moved out, I am not in the address currently written.

    http://www.geocities.co.jp/AnimalPark-Tama/7324/

    Nippo shiba is popular, Jomon shiba is few rare in Japan.
    Jomon shiba moves more actively than a Nippo shiba and violently.
    Nippo shiba is suitable for those who connect a dog. He walks according to an owner.
    To those who want to run a dog freely in a mountain like me, Jomon Shiba is more interesting.
    Post edited by matagi1961 at 2011-12-11 19:44:36
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1894
    The Jomon Shiba is more and more interesting to me. It seems like each new thing I learn makes me want to learn even more about them. I wish they were more readily available so I could see one in person.

    Thank you for sharing with us! :)
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2082
    With that description of them, I'm convinced that I want to own a Jomon! That's what I am looking for in a future Shiba.
    image
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    One puppy is sent to USA from Shibaho on December 4, this year.
    It is written that a puppy is in the Akita branch now.
    There is a e-mail button at the bottom of this page.
    http://www.shibaho.net/

    It is written that there is no puppy now, we are waiting for reservation.
    E-mail can be sent with the blue button of the rightmost of six.
    http://jomon-shiba.sakura.ne.jp/

    In Japan, English is compulsory education. There are much those who have already forgotten.
    A simple and short sentence is kind.
    Post edited by matagi1961 at 2011-12-11 19:38:50
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3016
    I love Jomon shiba looks much more wild looking their behavior sounds nice I love how they're still used for hunting.

    I see how Saya moves in tall grass she is very quick and fast in it.
    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    Nippo shiba excels other dogs of the same size in physical strength. The physical strength of Jomon is further excellent.
    Can find it raising two at once. my experience is only two jomon, I think that there is individual specificity.

    I have the experience using Nippo shiba in boar hunting.

    If there is the sign of a wild boar. flee, barks in a safe distance, bark close, goes to bite in the same blood line dogs.
    After losing, there are a dog which regains self-confidence, and a dog which cannot regain self-confidence.
    My 2Jomon can not fight to boar now.

    The wild boar is stronger at a large place and night.
    A small dog becomes so strong that a enemy becomes large at place with many miscellaneous trees which is hard to move.

    Many hunter of Pheasant and Copper pheasant use Jomon in Japan.
    My Jomon Kuro likes to pursues those birds.
    I dont want a bird. It is pleasant only by finding it, Because there is little meat.

    I hear that the Jomon is use for bear hunting. in the Tohoku district. The relative of Wanta is also playing an active part.
    I do not know group hunting or one person hunting.
    I do not have the experience bear hunting. I think that only strong dog is killed conversely.
    It cannot fight, unless it is a dog wiser than a bear.
    Post edited by matagi1961 at 2011-12-12 06:31:45
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    My Jomon shiba. Black is Kuro female, April, last year birth. Brown is Wanta male, July, this year birth.
    The dog of the picture which attached the blue rope with round plate written 114 is a father of Wanta by Crispy uploaded.
    The photograph at the time of their being pupies.
    w60-9
    kuro.101-ocn
    Post edited by matagi1961 at 2011-12-13 21:12:21
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1894
    @matagi1961
    Oh! I really like Kuro! Wanta is super cute too, but the black dogs are very striking, to me.

    Thank you for posting your pups!
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
    Post edited by Crispy at 2011-12-13 21:22:39
  • onetrackmindonetrackmind
    Posts: 21
    super cute pups!
  • SangmortSangmort
    Posts: 5510
    @matagi1961 - 私の日本語はへたです。。。でも、あなたの犬は美しいです!!

    Absolutely beautiful. :) Thanks for sharing! ~
    - Osy ~
    Kismet Collars
    Post edited by Sangmort at 2011-12-13 21:34:28
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    It is the latest photograph. A little dog becomes large immediately.
    w-129-2w-129-1
    k1.5-2
  • dlrobertsdlroberts
    Posts: 6552
    They look great! I especially like the black one.

    I feel like their head shape resembles a Shikoku a bit. That is interesting to me.
    dlrobertsdlroberts
    Dave, proudly owned by Joey (Shiba Inu), Tyson (Kai Ken), and PRG's Mason Julien McDieserton III, a.k.a. Diesel (Labrador Retriever).
    "My opinion may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right"
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    Head shape reminds me of the old-style Shikoku like Ahi. Wonder if they'll be a group that will keep the old-style Shikoku like in the Shiba?
  • ivanmeza03ivanmeza03
    Posts: 251
    Is it me or the Jomon resembles to the now extinct Japanese Wolf?
  • TheWalrusTheWalrus
    Posts: 1617
    The Jomon has been back bred to resemble canines with bone structure similar to the bones unearthed from dogs that lived 1000's of years ago in Japan.
    http://nihonken.blogspot.com/
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3448
    So, it's a re-creation breed?
    Hokusei Kashinoki Hokkaido and Shiba Inu
    masakadoshiba@hotmail.com
    www.masakadoshiba@wordpress.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • TheWalrusTheWalrus
    Posts: 1617
    Yes, Shibaho broke off from NIPPO way back when to breed toward this ancient Japanese dog type.
    http://nihonken.blogspot.com/
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    I think that small size Nihonken needs to move more sharply.
    Because small size Nihonken cannot win medium size by power.
    I feel functional beauty in Jomonshiba.

    My dog's parents' photograph will be uploaded if an owner's permission is obtained.
    Please wait.
    Post edited by matagi1961 at 2011-12-16 02:10:12
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3016
    Thanks so much for posting pictures. I love the Jomon shiba look your two looks very beautiful.

    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    Wanta and parents' photograph. Photo by Komachi kennel in Shibaho.
    http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/qwywh515
    Appearance differs between Nippo and a Jomon greatly now.
    It is a result of the difference in standard of the selection criteria for about 50 years.
    komati-3
    komati-2
    komati-1
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    It is Kuro's parents' photograph. Photo by JSRC.
    http://jomon-shiba.sakura.ne.jp/
    ran4731
    kuri2963
  • dlrobertsdlroberts
    Posts: 6552
    Wow, they look really cool!

    I'd be very curious to know how they stack up as big game hunters. Given how morphologically they have become so similar to the shikas, and especially the shikoku, I wonder what working instincts have varied along with that.

    Does anyone know if there's an english translation of their standard somewhere? (*coughs* @TheWalrus *coughs*) :-)
    dlrobertsdlroberts
    Dave, proudly owned by Joey (Shiba Inu), Tyson (Kai Ken), and PRG's Mason Julien McDieserton III, a.k.a. Diesel (Labrador Retriever).
    "My opinion may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right"
  • TheWalrusTheWalrus
    Posts: 1617
    I don't have a copy of the Shibaho standard in Japanese. I do have visiting the Shibaho HQ on my list of things to do when I have time, and I've always been interested in the breed. I think that physically they've got what it takes to be very agile hunters, especially in comparison to the standard NIPPO Shiba. I asked Shibaho recently about anyone hunting big game with Jomon Shiba, and they mentioned that there are a lot of bird hunters, but not that many big game hunters.
    http://nihonken.blogspot.com/
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    The standard of Jomonshiba is together with NIPPO. It is an abstract sentence.
    about 50 years ago, the late Mr. Nakajo differed in the method of the understanding, and he parted from NIPPO.
    The late Mr. Nakajo is father of Jomon shiba. I feel functional beauty in Jomonshiba.

    If Kuro meets with a deer and a wild boar, she barks. It is not long time. It returns within 5 minutes.
    She likes a bird by nature. She chased bigger pheasant than herself at 75 days old.
    The pheasant ran and escaped, without flying.

    I think that she is able to fight big game if young friends will increase in number in the future and I continue wishing.
    I heard from both Shibaho Akita branch and JSRC, Jomon being used for bear hunting in the Tohoku district now.

    I think it dependent on an owner that can wake the instinct of a dog.
    Post edited by matagi1961 at 2011-12-17 10:36:13
  • TheWalrusTheWalrus
    Posts: 1617
    http://blog.goo.ne.jp/kikaku_002/c/97102fa9c8dfdae9f7b88c817daeaf70

    Another interesting blog.
    http://nihonken.blogspot.com/
  • dlrobertsdlroberts
    Posts: 6552
    @matagi1961 - Is the standard for the Jomon Shiba focused on working ability? Or is it a more common conformation standard?
    dlrobertsdlroberts
    Dave, proudly owned by Joey (Shiba Inu), Tyson (Kai Ken), and PRG's Mason Julien McDieserton III, a.k.a. Diesel (Labrador Retriever).
    "My opinion may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right"
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    Since I do not have experience which appeared in the exhibition, I do not understand.
    Many hunters ask for the performance of a dog than beauty.
    I think that standard is a standard for examining impartially.
    I would like to make a wise dog.I am satisfied when appearance does not change large from a standard.
    The method of a standard understanding is different for many people.
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3016
    Kuro's parents are very nice I love the first picture of the parent.

    Photobucket
    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2082
    Those are some cool looking Shibas. I like their build a lot.
    image
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    There is a word of Japanese 姿芸両全(shigeiryouzen). It is my ideal.
    姿 is Appearance.芸 is work performance. 両全 is Both are good.

    I live in the environment where it is the side of a mountain and can release a dog safely.
    There are few people who live in the same environment as me in Japan.
    There are much those who cannot release a dog in the same environment as me.

    Those who cannot manipulate a dog can win at an exhibition.
    Moreover, it can become an executive of an organization.
    The staff of SHIBAHO corresponding to Walrus has a high possibility that he was such a person.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 3663
    This is so interesting about the Jomon shibas--great pics too! And I love the Appearance and work performance together. Very cool.
    Lisa, Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akita), and Leo (Kai Ken)
  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    @ayk--what do you mean by old-style vs new style?
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    @ttddinh - I'll need to find the thread to remember the details, but roughly, the Shikoku in NIPPO have been moving from having a very flat stop/longer face to having more stop and a rounder face. Their body build has also moved towards a narrower frame.
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    photo by JSRC
    http://jomon-shiba.sakura.ne.jp/
    Jomon shiba have a big mouth and tooth as compared with the body.
    However, there is a difference according to sex and age.
    3624
  • ivanmeza03ivanmeza03
    Posts: 251
    @mataga1961 - "Many hunters ask for the performance of a dog than beauty." true that. *likes*
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    One of the my You Tube videos was rewritten into English.
    Please read an English explanatory note.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=aT2DhFzXbOA
  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    Posts: 2215
    @ttdinh: Take a look at Brad's Facebook pictures of Ahi and Loa with profiles, then take a close look at the profile pictures of Kaiju and ChoCho. Between their two ages is *I think* the time that Nippo decided to move to a rounder face, shorter muzzle, with a more noticeable stop. Shigs and Brad can correct me if I'm wrong.

    Ahi:
    image

    Kaiju:
    image

    Jesse
    Jesse Pelayo

    Post edited by CrimsonO2 at 2011-12-20 10:57:16
  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    @ayk and @crimson02-- thanks for the clarifications. In general, why did NIPPO make those changes? IMPO, I think Ahi is absolutely gorgeous...I wonder if I could still find imports that have the "old-style" of shikokus...or are they now banned/prohibited?

    @crimson02--Is Kurenai considered old style or new style? Maybe it's just me but I feel that she has quite a mix. Her look is not quite new style as Kaiju's
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    @ttddinh - Similar to the Shibaho, it's not the standard that is changing, but the interpretation of the standard.

    A good thread to read over is TheWalrus' thread about the different Shikoku bloodlines:

    http://www.nihonken.org/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/6787/shikoku-bloodlines/
    Post edited by ayk at 2011-12-20 15:18:52
  • CrimsonO2CrimsonO2
    Posts: 2215
    Maybe we take the Shikoku head shape discussion to another thread and not threadjack says the guilty offender.

    Jesse
    Jesse Pelayo

  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    photo by Kyomachi kennel in Shibaho. http://blog.goo.ne.jp/wabisuke_1964/c/088c8d7ee8dfea9f8fb1e4d89403f926
    This is Wanta's father's grandchild's photograph. Jomon shiba have the belly which went up upwards thinly.
    It is called "巻き腹" ( makibara ) in Japanese. The dog with makibara is excellent in the athletic ability.
    He has a beautiful makibara especially.
    wabi-5wabi-1wabi-2
    wabi-3wabi-4
    Post edited by matagi1961 at 2011-12-21 00:16:24
  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    wow, nice dog! So lean!
  • lindsaytlindsayt
    Posts: 3448
    I can see why you would say the longer dog has the better athletic ability. Dogs with a longer loin tend to be able to maneuver around better and make tighter turns. Shorter backs are becoming more popular in certain breeds, to the detriment of working ability. We can see this with terriers in the show rings, (and of course Shibas). The Earth dogs are getting so short backed, that they are unable to turn around in the tunnels in Go To Earth trials, and have to be dug out. Extremely long loins are also not desirable, due to greater risk of back injury. The Jomon looks quite athletic.
    Hokusei Kashinoki Hokkaido and Shiba Inu
    masakadoshiba@hotmail.com
    www.masakadoshiba@wordpress.com
    www.hokkaidousa.wordpress.com
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    Thank you for the comment. It seems that I gave misunderstanding to lindsayt. Since the study of my English is insufficient, it apologizes. I think that Jomonshiba is not suitable for hunting in a tunnel.
    It is a form of the belly. I did not want to say about the back, the loins, and a leg.
    There is individual specificity also in the makibara in Jomonshiba now.I think that from now on, it will evolve into a form like greyhound.
    Dachshund with the beautiful makibara is in my neighborhood.
    Post edited by matagi1961 at 2011-12-22 00:42:32
  • violet_in_sevilleviolet_in_seville
    Posts: 332
    How interesting. Could you elaborate exactly on what is entailed by makibara? My understanding of the NIPPO standard is that there is also a tucked belly so I wanted to hear more detail on what distinguishes this trait.

    Also, any reason for the move to a more greyhound type build? An interpretation of the Jomon shiba standard? It sounds like it has mire to do with appearance than function. I'm curious in particular since one of my pups is at least superficially built more like a Jomon bodywise but her headpiece is still much more the NIPPO standard.

    I'll probably edit to add a photo.
    Post edited by violet_in_seville at 2011-12-21 15:28:50
  • matagi1961matagi1961
    Posts: 38
    It sees from side the line of the belly is going up upwards greatly.
    It may become "tucked belly" when makibara is translated into English.
    Many people of connection with Jomonshiba are said that makibara is good. and I also consider so by experience.
    If two kinds are kept simultaneously, a difference is known well.
    The direction of Jomon moves violently.
    I am glad when a Nippo follows me like a gentleman. I love both similarly.
    I found this video here.
    http://ameblo.jp/bososhishi/page-7.html#main

    I think that the dog with a thick belly cannot be moved sharply.Ten years or more ago,there were few Nipposhiba with makibara.
    Greyhound is my overstatement. I think that from now on, the difference in the appearance of Nippo and Jomon will spread.

    Post edited by matagi1961 at 2011-12-21 22:39:36
  • renaerenae
    Posts: 174
    Free running dogs!!! LOL Great video.
  • TheWalrusTheWalrus
    Posts: 1617
    @ayk and ttdinh

    Ahi's 'type' is not necessarily 'old type'. There has been, and still is some variation in the Shikoku. I may have given the impression that Ahi's type is an older type, but that was just from a conversation I had with some NIPPO members. That type was popular a while back, and there were quite a few dogs carrying those traits. They haven't necessarily been bred away from, you just don't see them much anymore.
    http://nihonken.blogspot.com/
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