Saya's bunny hopping thread
I've wrote about this a bit before and it's just bothering me so I'd thought I'd make a thread about it.
So Sadly my vet gave Saya a X ray when she got spayed to check her hips and legs, but didn't tell me I would have appreciated to know I had to pay for the X ray what if I only had enough for just the spay and stuff.. Luckily I keep extra with me anyways, but still.
Plus If the issue wasn't with her legs I could have asked for a x ray of her spine too might as well do a full detail one to be sure since I'm paying for it if I like it or not..
I told the vet to please call me before doing things like that I got my cell phone with me all the time.. >.<
Well fast forward after the mad shiba picnic I got a tip from Pat Doescher a shiba breeder if it's not hips it might be from her spine or neurological. She did watched Saya walk and felt her hips too like the vets did when she was a puppy and stuff.
Well I get back from the trip ask the vet to check the x rays and he does say there's a little something up with the spine..
She had the bunny hop since I picked her up from her breeder. I wished I got video of her doing the hop while we was on the way home as proof that the injury didn't happen when she got to my place.
My point is she had this since she was at least 8 weeks maybe younger.
Here's a picture I had gotten from the breeder by email of Saya at 4 or 5 weeks of age I forgot need to check the email.
I highlighted the pup which is saya it does seem like she was bunny hopping in this picture.
I have her now and no way I would return her for another puppy because of this. I'm glad I got her though because of her I got into feeding raw diet and learned much more on canine nutrition.
My vet thinks it could be a spinal injury like she might have fallen got stepped on by her parent's or something like that. I dunno maybe I can ask the vet to show me her x rays so I can take a picture of it to show here.
Could it be a birth defect maybe? Injury from falling? Playing to hard with her siblings, mom or dad over corrected her?
She's perfectly healthy now that she is on a raw diet, I feed her mostly grass fed meat, some grocery meats from good deals, all organs are grass fed or free ranged, chicken feet, and beef gullet as natural source of joint health and raw fish like smelt, mackerel, and saury for omega stuff.
She gets around just fine she can go up and down the stairs with no issue, wrestles with bella our 55lb boxer, and can even jump on my bed which before giving her the chicken feet she wouldn't do also she now can even jump up on my mom's bed which is higher then my bed.
She doesn't seem to be in any pain or anything. I don't think I'd like to do surgery on her unless she really need it and since she walks fine and doesn't cry if I touch her legs or lightly massage any part of her body.
I guess I'm making this thread for pretty much nothing I dunno. I dunno if surgery is an option for her I'd be afraid it'd paralyze her plus she gets around find now so I don't think it's needed, but I dunno really I guess..
I'd just want a opinion on her 4 or 5 week puppy picture does it look like she has the bunny hop?
Here's a video of her walking too shows how she walks a bit normal when walking slow, but when she walks fast or runs she bunny hops.
Here's are some pictures of her relaxing under the computer desk after a hard day of walks, playing outside and stuff.
So Sadly my vet gave Saya a X ray when she got spayed to check her hips and legs, but didn't tell me I would have appreciated to know I had to pay for the X ray what if I only had enough for just the spay and stuff.. Luckily I keep extra with me anyways, but still.
Plus If the issue wasn't with her legs I could have asked for a x ray of her spine too might as well do a full detail one to be sure since I'm paying for it if I like it or not..
I told the vet to please call me before doing things like that I got my cell phone with me all the time.. >.<
Well fast forward after the mad shiba picnic I got a tip from Pat Doescher a shiba breeder if it's not hips it might be from her spine or neurological. She did watched Saya walk and felt her hips too like the vets did when she was a puppy and stuff.
Well I get back from the trip ask the vet to check the x rays and he does say there's a little something up with the spine..
She had the bunny hop since I picked her up from her breeder. I wished I got video of her doing the hop while we was on the way home as proof that the injury didn't happen when she got to my place.
My point is she had this since she was at least 8 weeks maybe younger.
Here's a picture I had gotten from the breeder by email of Saya at 4 or 5 weeks of age I forgot need to check the email.
I highlighted the pup which is saya it does seem like she was bunny hopping in this picture.
I have her now and no way I would return her for another puppy because of this. I'm glad I got her though because of her I got into feeding raw diet and learned much more on canine nutrition.
My vet thinks it could be a spinal injury like she might have fallen got stepped on by her parent's or something like that. I dunno maybe I can ask the vet to show me her x rays so I can take a picture of it to show here.
Could it be a birth defect maybe? Injury from falling? Playing to hard with her siblings, mom or dad over corrected her?
She's perfectly healthy now that she is on a raw diet, I feed her mostly grass fed meat, some grocery meats from good deals, all organs are grass fed or free ranged, chicken feet, and beef gullet as natural source of joint health and raw fish like smelt, mackerel, and saury for omega stuff.
She gets around just fine she can go up and down the stairs with no issue, wrestles with bella our 55lb boxer, and can even jump on my bed which before giving her the chicken feet she wouldn't do also she now can even jump up on my mom's bed which is higher then my bed.
She doesn't seem to be in any pain or anything. I don't think I'd like to do surgery on her unless she really need it and since she walks fine and doesn't cry if I touch her legs or lightly massage any part of her body.
I guess I'm making this thread for pretty much nothing I dunno. I dunno if surgery is an option for her I'd be afraid it'd paralyze her plus she gets around find now so I don't think it's needed, but I dunno really I guess..
I'd just want a opinion on her 4 or 5 week puppy picture does it look like she has the bunny hop?
Here's a video of her walking too shows how she walks a bit normal when walking slow, but when she walks fast or runs she bunny hops.
Here's are some pictures of her relaxing under the computer desk after a hard day of walks, playing outside and stuff.
Comments
From the video, it looks like Saya is actually dragging while she hops. Which makes me think the girl at the picnic was right about it being neurological. As someone who just went through some pretty extensive neuro surgery (for the second time)... I would maybe think about taking her to a specialist or at least having an MRI done to see exactly what is going on. If you can catch it early, you could prevent the nerve damage from getting worse, or even repair the nerve damage if possible.
Better to be safe than sorry. But you may want to let a couple of other people chime in after watching the video. The only bunny hopping I have ever seen is Nola's, and hers is due to HD.
As an aside, and this could have nothing to do with anything, my Vet Nurse friend is always telling me she dislikes dogs with tightly curled tails because it means they're inclined to have coils or defects in their spines as well which can lead to spinal problems during their life. It came up in a conversation about Pugs, though, so I'm not sure if the same would apply to Shiba.
I agree with the others, it doesn't look like HD to me. Do you have copies of the x-rays that you could share with us?
Does her back end always kinda fall to the side the way it does when she turns around in the video (@ 00:28)?
The way she drags her toe reminds me of a torn ACL, but the way she falls from side to side reminds me of Kai after her FHOs, but the way she walks when she is not hopping reminds me of a dislocated hip. She mos def seems to favor her right side.
I think all you can do is take he to a specialist and get their opinion.
She's very cute. Reminds me so much of Kaia!
----
The vet did do a x ray sadly he didn't give us a copy of them do they usually do? I might have to call them to see if they can give it to me or a copy or I take a picture of it I dunno.
Sadly right now I don't exactly have the money because my parent's aren't doing so well money wise so they've had to barrow lots money from me for various things.
Which is fine at least it's not for beer and cigs like my dad would always make me give him money for.. =\
So hopefully when my mom gives me money back I'll be able to get her in to a different vet who specialize in this type of thing.
I just hate myself for going with the breeder I went with I wished I went with a different one.
I thought I did a good job researching for a good shiba breeder and she seemed nice, but I should have took her wanting me to get Saya right away or she will be shipping her to a owner in California if I didn't get her that weekend as a bad sign.
Maybe the owner in Calif would have had a better vet who saw the hopping as a sign of something wrong instead of being my vet who said it's OK she'll grow out of it etc.
When Pat was telling me how it must be spinal or neurological I felt like such a horrible dog owner.
Plus how the vet told me when I asked about it at 8weeks in her puppy check up and stuff he said it was probably normal etc. Then on her spay he did an x ray which is great, but I wished he told me so I could ask more and maybe would have asked him to take a full xray of her spine.
Atleast showing this video is a start I hope to get a better one soon maybe outside would be better for lighting and maybe I'll get her running more with her ball or toy.
"Does her back end always kinda fall to the side the way it does when she turns around in the video (@ 00:28)"
I'm not sure if she always does that when she turns I'll have to watch her more with that.
As a puppy she bunny hopped since I got her from Marian Campbell in July or June I need to check.
I'm not sure if it was as pronounced or anything I do have a bit of video of her walking, but sadly it's on our broken PC tower, but hopefully once we recover the pictures I can post them in this thread to see how she looked at that age.
Before jumping to any conclusions though, it's best to get her looked at and get the problem diagnosed. That is more than half the battle (a problem I experienced with Russell when he got sick a couple months back).
What's important is you want to do right by her. I know when I ran into a bit of financial trouble, my vet was VERY good about allowing me to set up a payment plan with them. I had to discuss it BEFORE bringing my pup in for his appointment, but usually if you express your concerns and tell them you'd like to do what you can for your dog, most practices I've seen will allow a payment plans if you ask/set them up in advance.
--also, I may have missed this, but have you spoken to Saya's breeder about her problems? If so, what did they have to say?
I was so stupid I asked how she felt about health test and some other health related questions she pretty much answered everything, but if she does health tests on the parent's she said how no breeder can breed a dog that's perfect health with perfect bite and something like that I'll have to check the email to see what's it all said, but that was the gist of it i think. I should have taken that as a sign to and ran away I thought since I found some owners on her have a dog from her and they looked like great healthy dogs.
So I guessed she was fine, but I guessed work or got unlucky.
I've emailed her two or three times I think maybe just two one I'd ask for more pictures of saya's parents I wanted to see some other pictures of her mom and dad then the ones I had from her papers. Never got a reply back from that and then I sent some pictures of her at one year old and told her how much I loved her and enjoy being her owner and didn't get a reply on that with any comments on how much she has grown or how nice she looked.
I understand breeders can be busy with shows, jobs, and family, but still I didn't think my emails would be un noticeable?
I've read her contract a few times, but I'll have to read it again to see what it says all I remember is I had to send her proof of being spayed at 6months or I'd have to pay a horrible high amount of money and send Saya back to her if I didn't do it at 6 months or something like that.
I dunno if I'll send her a email or not if so it'll be tomorrow night I'm so tired and I feel so sad right now probably mostly from having to put dink down even though she was getting annoying with pooping in the house and having to be carried sometimes 49lb is hard to carry.. I still miss her.
Sire: Ch. Classy's Captain Huey Reg# P324-670
Dam: Classy's Ms B havin Reg#P380-691
Litter reg:UKC pending Date of birth 4-29-09 Sex:Male
Price $800
This puppy has been examined by a licensed veterinarian on N/A and was found to be in good health. Puppy has been properly vaccinated and wormed prior to sale and record of such accompanies said puppy/dog. CLASSY KENNEL guarantees health of above dog at time of sale. Buyer should take above dog to a veterinarian for an examination within 48 hours after acquiring above dog. The quality of above dog as a companion as a pet/companion is guaranteed against crippling hip dysphasia for a period of 2 years from date of birth. During this time if genetic dysphasia of the hips should occur, said dog will be replaced upon proof from a license veterinarian. Seller reserves the right to have a second opinion of above dog by a veterinarian of mutual agreement. Above puppy must be spayed or neutered by the time he/she is 6 months old and a copy of veterinarian statement or certificate sent to me for my records. Copy may be sent to Marian Campell, PO Box 206, Sunfield, MI 48890. To not do so, will be a breach of contract and seller will be entitled to a $2500.00 payment for breach of contract. You will forfeit all rights to above dog and said dog must be returned to seller at buyer's expense. All reasonable attorney fees and expenses will be paid by buyer if breach of contract. The seller has represented said dog as a pet/companion, which means above dog has minimal faults in structure and is genetically of good healthy stock and is overall a good representation of the breed as of this date. The seller expects the buyer to properly raise and train above dog, insuring good socialization, to take good and reasonable care of the dog, provide adequate shelter and containment and maintain above dog with proper diet, exercise, grooming, and medical care. To not do so is a violation of the contract, dogs rights to human treatment and CLASSY KENNEL and you will not be given a replacement dog. IF FOR SOME REASON YOU NO LONGER CAN CARE FOR AND/OR KEEP ABOVE DOG, I MUST BE CONTACTED AS I HOLD THE RIGHTS TO HAVE ABOVE DOG SENT BACK TO ME AT BUYER'S EXPENSE. THERE IS TO BE NO TRANSFER OF REGISTERED PAPERS OR CO-OWNERSHIP TO ANYONE WITHOUT EXPRESS WRITTEN PERMISSION FROM MARIAN CAMPBELL, REPRESENTING CLASSY KENNEL. AS A BREEDER AND CARETAKER, I MUST BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DOGS THAT I HAVE BRED.
Sorry for the caps that how it was on the contract I wrote everything exactly how it was written.
Vacinations
6-24-09: DA2PP Shot (Progard 5)
No :Bordetella nasal vaccine (Progard KC)
Wormed on" 5-20-09; 6-03-09; 6-15-09
Future vaccines reccomended
DA2PP shot at 12 & 16 weeks (I do not give Lepto as there can be reactions)
Rabies at 16 weeks
Start heartworm medication anytime
Food:Chicken soup for the puppy lover's soul Order NUVET PLUS supplement @ 800-474-7044 order # is 52264 (this and mandatory)
website classykennel.com
I dunno what reason to email or call the breeder the whole return puppy for a replacement just doesn't seem right. I'd love a perfectly healthy shiba inu of coarse, but no way I'd return Saya I love her too much. I don't want to return her if she went back onto kibble and off of raw she'd start back up reverse sneezing every night and when she ate her kibble..
My short, oddly shaped beagle/bichon mix has a bunny hop only when he's trying to catch up to a shiba on a walk or something. When he's walking normally or running at full speed he uses all four legs equally.
Saya's dragging or carrying her left rear it looks like, almost exactly like when a border collie we fostered was post-op after having her pelvis pinned (she was hit by a car) but she just didn't drag, she purposely didn't put weight on the affected side.
Can your vet send the breeder a copy of the xray? What was the vet's diagnosis?
I am so sorry that you are having such a tough time at home now. Just keep your head up. Things will get better.
As for Saya and her breeder, I would give Marian a call (not an email) and let her know what is going on and that once you are able to have further tests done, you will provide her with that information. From what I know, Classy Kennel is a pretty reputable kennel. I would hope that Marian would be able to provide some emotional and knowledge base support (at the very least) for one of her puppies and their owner.
If you have any major universities in your area (or even smaller ones), you may want to check and see if any of them have a vet school. Vet schools usually have innovative technology and great vets but offer their services at a lower price because of the students. Check this out and give a few a call if you have some fairly locally. Ask if they have payment plans, etc. to help with the financial burden of an expensive diagnosis. A lot of them will work with you.
You are a very dedicated owner and we can all tell how much you love Saya. You can not blame yourself for any of this. Just work as hard as you can to get her to a specialist/vet school to figure out how you can help her. You have an amazing support group here, and anything that you need, just ask.
I just wonder how could Marian not noticed Saya's walking? One picture I saw of her running in the picture seems to indicate she was hopping like that while at the breeder's house..
The small shiba puppy I saw at the shiba meet up walked normal even when running he walked normal..
I know Purdue should have some veterinary stuff so they might be able to help or atleast direct me to someone who can.
Just having to deal with Dink she was hard work and drained me having to carry her to go potty 49lb is a lot and she'd try to bite me when carrying her. I had barely any time to study or practice driving.
Hopefully once I get saya's health issues out of the way I can work on moving away from my parent's I can't stand seeing my mom suffer having to work 7 days a week and barely has time to relax or do anything.
I think I need one more day to rest and I'll give Purdue a call I just feel so sad and drained. Didn't help I barely got sleep last night and felt sick to my stomach through the night.
I'll call the breeder too once I get a diagnoses on what is going on with Saya.
I got a video of her too I was petting her messaging her and she still didn't correct her back paw.
I would definately call the breeder and keep her informed. Don't email. You've seen her website which is pretty primitive. She's also been on this forum before but with great difficulty navigating. The internet is probably not her most comfortable mode of communication, which can be typical for her generation.
I wouldn't be so scared off by the caveate that she gave about no dog being perfect because that is the truth about things. If a breeder doesn't have kennel blindness about their breeding program, there's always something that can be improved.
-Ann
----
Not sure if it's Canine Wobbler Syndrome.
I've also tried pinching saya's legs and she does yelp if I do it too hard on her so I think she does have some feeling in her legs.
she's also shiba screamed at top of her lungs once when I accidentally clipped her quick a little bit luckily it wasn't too bad and I had stuff to stop the bleeding those black nails were trouble at first, but now I'm pretty good about clipping her in the right area.
I do agree no dog's health is perfect, but my main question to her was if she health tested her adults and few other health related questions, but I guess I didn't phrase each question as good.
Ah well I plan to make a call and I'm just mad about myself not contacting her sooner or putting my foot down with the vet or my parent's to let me go to a different one who'll help me atleast diagnose what is the problem with her I don't need a dumb down version her spine hurt nothing we can do to fix it or she might get paralyzed during surgery.
I mean take me into the room show me the x rays so I can see in detail what's up with her.
When doing a x ray will Saya need to be fully sedated? one might be good to do again since she is two years old now, but I worry about her going under.. Coarse she'll be under if she needs to have a MRI done or anything like that..
I emailed purdue veterinarian with pictures and video so hopefully that'll help I plan to call my vet to talk about things with him if he could refer me to Purdue so Saya can be looked at by them.
I mean if anything I'll get her fixed up with my money and hopefully help with my mom it's least she can do for keeping her house cleaned and constantly taking care of Dink even when she got worse and cleaning after her messes etc.
I plan to get my drivers license soon and work so that money will all go towards that too.
Thank god she's on raw diet she has so much meat, RMB, and organs stocked up in my parent's freezer I hadn't had to buy her meat so I've saved up money.
He said if I wanted he can give her another x ray to see if there's any change from current x ray.
He said on the x ray he did during the spay was mainly to check for HD and stuff like that, but he did see some stuff on the spine He said it was a bit deformed or something..
He doesn't know if there's anything to be done to surgically fix her.
I'll try to get in contact with the Purdue people or make a drive over there they're only 30 or 40minutes away depends on traffic and the lights..
My mom is off this weekend I think so hopefully we can check them out somehow. Maybe seeing her walk and examining her will be enough to tell me what's up..
Plus my mom doesn't seem to feel the need to worry I kept freaking out about the way she walks and all she tells me she's fine she gets along fine..
I'll see if my mom is able to take me to the vet so I can see the x rays myself or get a copy to see or something.
I believe she isn't in pain she'd let me know if she was and she runs outside jumps up on fallen trees and climbs up hills with no issue.
He said if we want to go to the Purdue he'd refer us so I'll talk with my mom to see.
She's having bad money troubles thanks to my dad losing his job and now all sudden wanting to go to college. He's stressing me out with his yelling because he gets the problem wrong or internet disconnects etc. Freaks me and poor Bella out. >.<
He's finally had gotten a job at a gas station thankfully, but with as much cokes he's drinking it won't help he drinks 7cokes in two days..
I just hope my mom's work slows down or she's going to get sick working seven days a week and most times not getting lunch..
I would request that referral to Perdue as soon as possible. Your vet sounds a little off his rocker (please do not take offense to this at all!). This is not saying that you are not a concerned and great owner. Because you are. You have had a rough time of it and I know that dealing with a potential medical issue with Saya is tough. I commend you for coming to the forum to help. I know it can be rough to hear our opinions, especially when you are going through a financial hardship. But know that we are here to support you and help you in any way that we can. We all know that you have Saya's best interests at heart.
An x ray would cost me $150 or $200 at the vet. I dunno maybe I heard him wrong. One reason I prefer email I don't remember things well when talking to people on phone. =\
I hope to go to the vet this weekend to see the x rays she had at 6months and maybe I can get a copy or at least get a picture of it taken and see about him referring me.
To answer your question, yes, we do have a neurologist on staff.
Having said that, the VTH is a referral hospital, meaning that in order to be seen you must have a referral from your regular veterinarian. Additionally, your veterinarian can call and request a consultation with a neurologist regarding your pet.
At that time, they can discuss the options for your pet as well as costs associated with those options, including which modality would be best for your pet's situation: MRI or CT?
I'm sorry that I cannot provide any more information. The best way for you to get further information is to ask your vet to request a consult call from our specialist to discuss your pet veterinarian-to-veterinarian.
Which is good hopefully the price isn't too bad and they'll allow payments or something.