Impulse Control

So Jen and I were working with the Shikoku today and I realized something rather obvious. What I consider "rudeness" in our Shikoku is really just a lack of impulse control. I think maybe the same applies with their dog-dog social skills too.

I'm wondering if other Shikoku Ken owners feel the same and what you have done to teach your Shikoku better impulse control.

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Comments

  • While Conker is not a Shikoku, he's also pretty rude with some dogs. The better he knows a dog the more snark he'll give them, but with a dog he's just met he acts pretty regular. I guess he's got good impulse control with dogs he doesn't know and none with dogs he does? Or is it that he's just more comfortable around them?
    Do the Shikoku make a distinction between dogs they do know and don't like Conker does?
  • OMG! Miko is the living embodiment of poor impulse control. And she has reinforced that behavior in Ruby. I actually start "Feisty Fido" classes with Ruby on Tuesday (it is more important to me to have my "vicious breed" be a good example of her kind than my darling exotic breed, miss Miko) to work on impulse control. My behaviorist swears by this class for any dog lacking impulse control regardless of whether or not they are aggressive.
    Assuming we too love the class, Miko will take it next session.
  • You know, I never really gave it much thought that that could be the reason why she'll be chilling on the couch with Ichi, and a split second later, lunge to bite his legs. Maybe that's what makes them such sharp dogs is that they give in to their impulse/senses so quickly? I have taught Kurenai (admittedly to a far less degree) some basic impulse control commands like, "wait", "stay" and "leave it" but I always thought her ability to strongly abide by the command was directly related to how weakly I've trained her.

    Definitely gives me food for thought.

    Jesse
  • I guess I could see that it is lack of ability to control the rapid changes in their environment and their impulse to do something because of those changes.

    I think consistency in training is important to control their impulses. I am big on using the word "wait" and being consistent that when I say that word, I mean it, they must wait and not move for whatever they want. If they move at all, they are brought back to the same spot, placed there again, I do NOT repeat the command. They have to learn that the 1st time I say something, I mean it. If they move again, the get put back again (and maybe an "aht" if they try to move). Etc, etc, for as long as it takes. Same with the word "leave it". It usually doesn't take very long because although shikoku may lack impulse control, they do have a high drive to do as their owner wishes. So that is VERY helpful.

    I don't really find either of them "rude" per se, but then I also tried very hard to be very consistent and make them wait and not jump at everything they wanted immediately.
  • You know, back when it was just Ahi and Loa, I can't really say I thought Shikoku Ken were that rude either. Then we raised like 40+ puppies, of all kinds of breeds. When I compare the Shikoku Ken we have raised to the puppies of the other breeds the Shikoku mos def lacked some impulse control with people and other dogs.

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  • Haha! Yes, Brad, that is probably true! I only have my limited breed experience (strictly Siberians and Shikoku). I never have raised any other breed of puppy. :-)

    Good to know!
  • @ Brad: In terms of dog to dog this is really tough given handlers are at a distance when a dog tends to act up. Compatibility based on age and drive is a big issue here, and rotating like you are doing is a good thing. However, some dogs do take a lot longer to work through and mature. I don't have any easy answers on this either. In regard to human to dog an vise versa.... Proofing when people are around is a good thing.

    I hate to always resort back to a book but I have found some good ideas in Control unleashed. There are some good things in there that could be modified depending on the specific issue. Although I have not worked with Shikoku the same principles should apply.

    @ Jess: Impulse control in one area that tends to overlap in another so I tend to agree with you much of what you see in split second decisions dog to dog are impulsive as well.

    @ Kris I completely agree with you in regard to consistency in training. I think it is one of the hardest aspects to training on the human side. Particularly when consistency in owner/handler movement is needed as well as visual signals. You do a super job from what I saw in your clips.

    @ Brad again: When handling and proofing dogs that are turn on a dime bursting to move, to get the reduced impulses at times you have to sloooow the motion of rewarding way down once the dog knows what you are asking to get calm. The three d's have to be applied accordingly for the dog and stage. Although at the end of a session you can take the dog to its highest peak of zany as a slam dunk jack pot, food does not have to be the reward. Lots of one on one time in short sessions is most helpful. It takes a really laid back mentality and a right form of zen. If one is not in the zone it can really be tough. I know for owners who like to take action for reaction it can be the hardest. I include myself in this group, it certainly takes a lot of self control on the human side too, when training. Click to Calm is another book to investigate.

    @ Jessica as you are going through the Feisty Fido class or when you are done would you be willing to highlight what the points were? I am curious how they were dealing with the issues. Do they stick with the book as a guide?

    Snf
  • @StaticNfuzz - thank you for the compliments. I try hard to be consistent and I agree that it is one of the hardest things to do! You have to watch your own motioning and verbal commands and control yourself so that you are consistent. Not easy, but with awareness, anyone can improve. :-)

    I think that you gave some excellent advice regarding slooowing the motion of rewarding and keeping the dog calm. I know, in comparison of my two dogs, Sachi is much easier to get pumped and overly excited. It is best for me to do a short training session with more intermittent clicks and/or rewards (variable reinforcement). Otherwise, she gets so wound up wanting the reward that she loses her focus. So I try to keep things slow and calm with her. Actually, now that she understands many of the patterns, she will get no rewards (might get clicks but no food) until the end of the training session (ie, 5-10 minutes tops). Keeps her calmer just getting clicks and verbal/physical (petting) rewards.

    Kuma you can reward during training or after and he keeps his focus and is not overly excited or impulse driven.
  • @StaticNfuzz I will likely start a thread about the class, I am sure there will be bits that are valuable for all of us. The class is held at a facility I have taken the dogs to before. They are a strict positive training facility. According to my behaviorist it is a lot of focus work, targeting, recall, tools like that.
  • edited May 2011
    @Edgewood & @StaticNfuzz - I too agree with the importance of consistency when training an impulsive dog (breed) - or any dog for that matter.

    I was thinking about it just now when I fed Kaiju and Cho Cho. When I took Kaiju over to his crate he sat before I opened it. This was "new", I always ask him to sit in the crate/kennel and look at ME (not the food) then I put the food down and release him.

    Today tho, he sat outside the crate and I thought "Hmmm, ok, that's new" then I remembered Jen fed him the last 2 times and she probably had him do that.

    So, yea, Jen and I need to get our routines synced up. Poor Kaiju is probably all kinds of confused.

    With Chase's arrival, it's been a one-man show around here as far as the dogs go (I've been doing the dog stuff). Jen and I have always done these things as a team, but she's been preoccupied with Chase (which is totally understandable). Now that things are slowing down a bit with Chase we are working to use more of a universal team effort with Chase and the dogs.

    Anyway, point is, we need to get back to following a consistent plan if we are going to be splitting the tasks.

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    @JessicaRabbit - I'd love to hear (read) about you experience with that class. A thread would be great!

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  • Oh yeah, Rakka has impulse control problems. Noah and I have always said that.
  • Yup, no self-control. Shoushuu, Kotomi & Shuran always seem to act on impulse, they never really think things through unless it's something familar. Something they've encounter before and have past experience on how they should react.

    In my experience, it's easier to teach a Shikoku what they can do then it is to teach what they are NOT suppose to do. It's a matter of a few consistent daily repetitions. For many other things, I just wait them out. You really have to be patience with such an impatience breed as Shikoku. Eventually they will learn what to expect from me (not necessarily understand). Even then though, they will need a little reminder at times =].

    Classical [Consistency. Repetition. Association] & Operant Conditioning [using positive reinforcement (adding something of value) & negative reinforcement (removing something of value)] seems to work best. I also do "time outs" but more so to give the dogs a break from one another during times of their relentless and constant "bickerings" -cough- Kotomi and Shuran -cough-.
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