PoongSoon the Poongsan
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    My dad and I picked up a Poongsan pup yesterday afternoon.

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    The breed originates from an area now controlled by North Korea. In the mid-1990's, a group of pups were smuggled from North Korea to South Korea and triggered interest in the breed. Thenafter, other dogs followed, mostly now through China.

    There are issues with the quality/purity of the dogs outside of North Korea. On a scale of one to ten, with ten being the best, these dogs are probably graded around 4. The North Korean military is said to have "7" dogs, the locals less so. And of course, where there's money involved, there's people who take short cuts and use mixes. Kishu, Akita, Jindo, and such.

    This particular pup's lineage is via China so nothing is for sure though her parents are Korea Kennel Club registered. She's actually the last puppy in the litter to be picked up because her nose has not filled in with pigment. My guess is that with more time it will, but the skin around the nose will remain splotchy. No biggie for me since I'm not all that eager to start a line of Poongsans. They're so big compared to Jindos. Will take some time to get used to having a large dog.


    Post edited by ayk at 2014-03-23 11:26:06
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1671
    Wow Ann that's pretty cool. I have seen only one and that was on a travel blog by a Korean Couple.
    I will be really interesting to see how the pup matures. I hope you will keep posting pictures. Do poongsan always have floppy ears or will they straighten as the pup grows, similar to Jindos?

    Snf
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3013
    Cute pup! Congratulations to your dad. =)
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    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    A good number of Poongsans, roughly about a third, won't have fully upright ears. They'll have dropped ears or tipped ears on one or both of the ears. No biggie like it is in Jindos. This girl had parents with both ears up.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    That's really cool Ann! Please keep us updated on her development and personality, I'm really interested to hear about her!

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  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    Well, one day into our PS experience and we've learned that she really, really hates the x-pen when it's closed. She'll go there if she wants to get away from her paparazzi (me with my flash camera), but close the gate and boy, we find out that she has a very healthy set of lungs! I've run into 2 sets of Poongsan owners that say that their adults will respect a 4 ft fence, but this little girl climbed her 2 ft x-pen last night, all the while protesting her confinement.

    Other than her complaining about her x-pen, she's very quiet and still has that puppy coordination. She's not as physically advanced as a Jindo at the same age. She likes being outdoors, but stays in the shade. Guess her puppy coat is too warm for this weather.

    She doesn't eliminate in her x-pen, but she will tinkle outside of it on the carpet. I've got to stay on top of that.

    She's shown the most interest in balls for the time being. Not so interested in squeakers. Not very food motivated yet.

    She'll follow you, but then once in a while she does the "Not yet!" and goes in a different direction. :-)

    She's taking things in stride for the moment. No reaction to my senior dog. No reaction to my chickens. No reaction to the people or dogs at a petstore. She will get carsick though if the drive is long.

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    Post edited by ayk at 2011-05-01 20:01:21
  • shishiinushishiinu
    Posts: 2337
    Thats a cute pup for sure. Almost has that great pyrenees look to it.
    Gen, Ami, Kaylynn, Trinity, Yusuke......Riki, Hana, Sammi, Taro, and the newest addition Koyuki.
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    Yep, she does kind of look like a GP. :-) She has a thick puppy coat that's a tad long, and her ears are widely spaced and down which is typical of a Korean breed at this age.
  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 3663
    She's pretty cool looking! Congrats to your Dad, and I'll be really interested in following her growth and development. Already interesting to me that she's interested in balls and not squeakers..I'm just intrigued in the differences in toy preferences.
    Lisa, Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akita), and Leo (Kai Ken)
  • jujeejujee
    Posts: 724
    The first pic you posted, couldn't really see how thick and long her coat was, but the other pics can really see it!

    Would love to learn more about this breed since I never heard of it before. Keeps us updated with her! :]
  • HeidiHeidi
    Posts: 3379
    That's really neat. Definitely give updates!
    Rakka 落下(Shikoku Ken), Sosuke 宗介 (Kai Ken), Hester, Stephanie, and Batgirl(cats)
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  • brittkbrittk
    Posts: 302
    Very cute pup! Cant wait to hear more about her and the breed and she grows up
    Loving my Kai-ya :)
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    She really does look like a GP... Like a GP x Akita. She's super cute! :o)

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  • dlrobertsdlroberts
    Posts: 6552
    I concur, SUPER CUTE! Congrats on the new addition. :-)
    dlrobertsdlroberts
    Dave, proudly owned by Joey (Shiba Inu), Tyson (Kai Ken), and PRG's Mason Julien McDieserton III, a.k.a. Diesel (Labrador Retriever).
    "My opinion may have changed, but not the fact that I'm right"
  • MirkaMMirkaM
    Posts: 1248
    She's adorable!
    Kai will lay down its life to protect its master.
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    Kennel Gekkoo No: http://gekkoonoen.webs.com/index.htm
  • sunyatasunyata
    Posts: 4535
    Very cute! :) I have never heard of this breed before, so thank you for sharing.
    Bella 2Mountains 2Nola 2
    Casey, with Bella and Nola, hanging out in the mountains of Virginia.
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    Just some new pics of PoongSoon. She's about 12 weeks old and 24 lbs. Her ears went up this week. Instead of a Great Pyrenee, she looks like an Akita in the bright light :-)

    image

    And this is her right after her first puppy socialization class today. A very tired pup.

    image
    Post edited by ayk at 2011-06-04 19:19:08
  • SayaSaya
    Posts: 3013
    So cute! Thanks for giving us an update on her.
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    Nicole, 7year old Bella(Boxer), and 7year old Saya(Shiba inu)
  • jujeejujee
    Posts: 724
    Omg! What a cutie!!
  • jan3tjan3t
    Posts: 133
    She is very pretty with her ears up. I wonder how big she will be...Thigh-high or bigger?

    What is the PS's primary job in NK? I googled around a bit but couldn't find what the breed was developed for.

    Are you "The Girl with the Gae"?
    Greetings from the 3rd sunniest city in the US
  • HeidiHeidi
    Posts: 3379
    Awwww! Cute!
    Rakka 落下(Shikoku Ken), Sosuke 宗介 (Kai Ken), Hester, Stephanie, and Batgirl(cats)
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  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    @jan3t Yeah, that's my blog.

    Most Koreans will refer to Poongsans as hunting dogs, similar to the Siberian Laikas. In the past, there were a lot of big predators in northern Korea which is now controlled by North Korea. Siberian tigers, Amur leopards, wolves, brown bears, and wild boars. (Well, wild boars weren't so much predators, but they were big and dangerous.)

    The breed name comes from the mountainous area from where they come from. I believe the mountain range from where they hail from are at 6000 ft elevation. This allowed them to be more isolated and they developed into a breed.
    Post edited by ayk at 2011-06-05 09:09:14
  • jan3tjan3t
    Posts: 133
    So many new breeds (to me) on this forum!

    Would you say the Poongsans are a large, courageous guardian with good hunting skills? Do they tend to be of independent or collaborative temperament? They would certainly blend into the snow.
    Greetings from the 3rd sunniest city in the US
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    wow! She is VERY cute! LOL ... She does look Akita-ish. He coat looks amazing too.

    How did she do at puppy class?

    I didn't know Siberian Tigers were in North Korea. They have a lot more range than I realized.

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  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1833
    Hehe, she's so cute! I was going to pitch in "she reminds me of a white malamute", Her coat looks a little like a malamute puppy's as well - though I see the longer hairs on her ears. How long do you think her hair will get? Something like this?

    image
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    @jan3t There's more lore on the breed's hunting prowess rather than guarding ability. Their guarding would be against wild animals that wander into the farm area rather than against people. They're supposed to be really social towards people, much much more than the Jindo.

    I've asked two sets of owners whose dogs originated from China about how much their dogs weigh, and they didn't really say. Just eye-balling them though, I think one female was probably 50 lbs while the males and the other female was probably in the 60-70 lb range. The three dogs had long legs though that made them thigh-high. Kind of like this dog here:

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    A thicker dog would probably top 80 lbs.

    Some other Poongsans that are supposed to be direct from North Korea are 40-60 lbs which makes them like larger Jindos. Here's a picture of an older pair that was sent over by the North Korean president about 10 years ago. They're only knee-high. It kind of makes me sad to see them age so ungracefully.

    image

    So what I'm trying to say, "large" may not be the best descriptor for a Poongsan. Probably not to someone like Brad who has COs. :-)

    As for collaborative vs. independent temperament, it's hard to say. Supposedly during a hunt, 3 dogs are used, but most likely they are going to be a family group. Supposedly, the Poongsan has a longer fuse towards other dogs than the Jindo, but once set off, they are just as determined in a scrape. For interaction with their owners, I'm not sure about their willingness to please compared to other breeds yet. With PoongSoon, she's still pretty young in the head and so I don't expect too much from her right now.


    @brad1878 Well, we went early to the class and the instructor loomed over her (leaning over a gate) and she did her first submissive urination. She greeted the early people and played with their dogs. He interrupted her playing when she "dominated" another dog (standing over the laying dog and jaw fencing). At first I was skeptical of what he was reading, but fair enough, it's not too much to ask her to adapt her play style if it makes other dogs and other people uncomfortable. When more dogs came in, she started to dislike their play styles (multiple dogs on one) and my feeling is that she started to get over-stimulated and/or pushed past her threshold. She reacted by walking the perimeter and showing more interest in the people rather than the dogs.

    She refused treats the entire time and so the instructor didn't even try to have me do some of the training. Understandable for me, but he also gave up early with an akita pup when the akita pup only wanted to do half a circle of following before losing interest in treats. He blamed the breed which I kind of disagreed with. If food isn't a motivator, find something else. I don't think we're a good fit for this instructor, maybe because I'm too engrained to obedience style training and women trainers, but I tell myself we're going for the indoor socialization.


    @Crispy There are some Poongsans with that kind of coat like the one here:

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    but I think the longer lengths on PoongSoon will be limited to just her head. Time will tell. :-)

    Post edited by ayk at 2011-06-05 19:53:47
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    @ayk - Funny, I am uber-picky about puppy trainers too. Like way more picky about puppy class trainers than OB trainers. So, I feel your pain, it's hard to find the right puppy class.

    With the exception of not taking treats, it sounds like she did well.

    I agree about the Akita thing - not cool. Sounds like laziness hidden behind breed discrimination to me.

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  • shibamistressshibamistress
    Posts: 3663
    Wow, she's pretty! And yeah, I hear you and Brad on the puppy trainers. Super annoying, and it is hard to get a good one. I'd be annoyed about the akita thing too....After all, my Akita was super good in his puppy class....but also the trainer was very good with all the dogs, and if one treat didn't work, she tried another, or a toy, so....
    Lisa, Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akita), and Leo (Kai Ken)
  • EidenEiden
    Posts: 102
    I did not know this breed !! She is beautiful !!!
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    Here are some more recent pictures of her at 5 months of age. It looks like she'll be a long-haired Poongsan with longer ear hairs.

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    And here's a picture of her compared against a young male Poongsan that I picked up from a neglect situation. He has the harsh coat but little undercoat as he was hypothyroid.

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  • ZinjaZinja
    Posts: 1033
    I really like that photo... Beautiful dogs!
    -Joe
  • She's beautiful! I love that pic of the two of them together too--it gives a good idea of the coat contrast, but I also just love the pic.

    Hey, did the JA from the neglect situation ever find a home?
    Lisa, Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akita), and Leo (Kai Ken)
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    I haven't swapped updates with ShaSha's foster home in a while, but I think ShaSha is still looking for a new home as his petfinder ad is still up. He is courtesy-listed with Ace of Hearts Dog Rescue.

    http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/20082621
  • HeidiHeidi
    Posts: 3379
    Love the 'fro.
    Rakka 落下(Shikoku Ken), Sosuke 宗介 (Kai Ken), Hester, Stephanie, and Batgirl(cats)
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  • AraksAraks
    Posts: 802
    Nice pictures. She a really pretty dog. I barely knew that this breed existed haha.
  • souggysouggy
    Posts: 247
    I can see why some thinks they have a bit of Laika in them; the Amur Laika, one of the aboriginal types which now make up the artificial East Siberian Laika breed, has a lot of Asiatic features to them.
    Blog: Prick-Eared - now featuring primitive dogs
  • jenzjenz
    Posts: 65
    Beautiful photos! I love the male Poongsan- look at his lips! I just want to squish them. :)

    Jen
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    I like that second picture too.
  • WhoBitMeWhoBitMe
    Posts: 1926
    Oh, I like those pictures! It's very interesting to see the differences between the two dogs in the second pic.
    1 Human + 1 Hokkaido
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  • It was great seeing you and your lovely girl this weekend. She looks a lot different than these photos now. :D
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
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  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    Yeah, I haven't updated here.

    She also looks different than yesterday. Got dirtied up again. :-)

    Here's a standing view. I'm hoping her legs will catch up to that huge chest of hers.
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    Her happy, dirty face:
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    And here's her favorite way of playing with BokDol:
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    Post edited by ayk at 2012-02-07 20:00:19
  • Do they have the double coat? BokDol's fur looks really thin and rough still.
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
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  • SangmortSangmort
    Posts: 5510
    What a cutie! I miss that grizzly main she had tho lol ~
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    Her parents had a nice double-coat. Harsh, upright, and prickly.

    One of the reasons why I'm suspecting that he's hypothyroid is because of that coat and the skin on his belly. He doesn't have the irritability/aggression typical of hypothyroidism, but his coat is not staying on him.

    For comparision, here's an example of a Jindo that was hypothyroid:
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    and after he started treatment:
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    The coat is still short/tight but in much better condition.
    Post edited by ayk at 2014-03-23 11:26:41
  • jellyfishjellyfish
    Posts: 1081
    i've never heard of this breed, and I love that they're a larger breed too. I love the long hair behind her ears!! so adorable! :)))

    Question, (and forgive at how ignorant this sounds).... but why does wikipedia say that this is a breed that is mixed with wolf? I have a hard time believing this, can you shed some light?
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    It's folklore common to a lot of Asian breeds. Shouldn't be taken too seriously as *if* it did happen, it was a very, very long time ago.
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    I really liked PoongSoon! She was very mellow and reserved, and super soft to pet! I also really enjoyed meeting you, Ann ( @ayk ). Sorry we didn't have much time to chat... I never feel like I can chat with people individually as much as I'd like when I have dog so manage.
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    She was actually more active when we first got there, but when she saw all the strange adult dogs arrive instead of her old classmates, she got a bit stressed and minded her manners really quick. She's not a confident reserved dog like my old male Jindo. She's still mentally a puppy despite her huge size.

    Her coat is pretty and nice to pet, but it's really non-functional. Yesterday, the rain parted the fur on her back down the middle and wicked down to her skin. :-p

    I'm leaning towards attending the Pet Expo now. If I go, there'll be plenty of deadtime to talk there. :-)


  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    @ayk - haha... yea, that is a rain-coat fail for sure! I hope you do go to the expo, Ann. I'd be great to chat more. :o)
  • Ah, you'll be at the Expo too, Brad?
    「怪獣荘秋田犬」Kaiju Kennels Japanese Akita and Hokkaido, Claire Matthews
    http://www.facebook.com/PoetikDragon
    http://www.facebook.com/KaijuKennels
    http://www.kaijukennels.com
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    @poeticdragon - Yep! Well, that is the plan, tho it may end up being Jen and Chase and not me. Depends on my work situation. I guess I will have Kai and a Kishu with me for the expo. No Shikoku, since I had planned to take Kaiju.
  • ttddinhttddinh
    Posts: 1990
    Well, kaiju could still be there! :)
  • jujeejujee
    Posts: 724
    I hope I did enough convincing to get you to go Ann!
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    Took some "nekkid" pictures of PoongSoon today. She's 1 yr old now. About 70 lbs and 24 inches at the shoulders.

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    Here's her chaperone BokDol. He's maybe 1.5 - 2 yrs old. About 80 lbs and 25 inches at the shoulders. Hard to believe that he used to be ~46 lbs when I first got him last June.

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    And here are two Poongsan brothers that I've temporarily taken in. They're both around 8 months old, 44 lbs, and 22 inches at the shoulders. Supposedly they were from N. Korea -> China - > Virginia -> soCal.

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    And here's a picture of PoongSoon and one of the brothers playing. PoongSoon does love to grab/catch her playmates. :-p

    image
    Post edited by ayk at 2012-04-08 17:46:47
  • CrispyCrispy
    Posts: 1833
    Look at that fabulous tail! I'm in love with her coat. It looks so silky and soft (and feminine!) in these pictures, compared to the boys who look quite coarse and masculine. It's kind of cute.
    Akiyama no Roushya || 秋山の狼室 || www.kishu-ken.org
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2082
    PoongSoon is quite a gorgeous lady! And BokDol looks great! The Poongsan bros are pretty cute. Love those floppy ears.
    image
  • They are great looking! Love those tails!
    Lisa, Toby (Shiba), Oskar and Zora (American Akita), and Leo (Kai Ken)
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224
    Man, I really like that first "brother" (first pic)... He has a nice head. And being form N. Korea is pretty amazing.

    PoongSoon has matured since I met her. I really liked her, her coat was soooooooooo soft!
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    I like the first brother's head, but I also like how he recovers relatively fast from new situations.

    I like the second brother's pigment, but I'm not too sure with his temperament yet. He is clearly bonded and submissive to his brother, looking for comfort from the same brother. Once his brother is gone to his new home, I'll be looking to see if he becomes bolder and recovers better from new experiences.

    I think PoongSoon is nearly done growing physically, but I'm still waiting for her mind to catch up. I'm hoping that she'll be "grown up" enough to do the CGC in 4 weeks. :-p

    I think BokDol being neutered at his mystery age last year altered what he could have looked like. I kinda wish he had more masculine physical traits so I could use him for exhibitions.
  • aykayk
    Posts: 1979
    PoongSoon at 3 years of age. Last month's weigh-in at the vet was 81 lbs.

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    Post edited by ayk at 2014-03-23 11:38:44
  • LosechLosech
    Posts: 2082
    She's matured quite nicely! Very beautiful girl.
    image

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