Behavioral and Physical Effects of Spaying and Neutering Domestic Dogs

BradA1878

Here is an interesting read...

Behavioral and Physical Effects of Spaying and Neutering Domestic Dogs
http://www.caninesports.com/SNBehaviorBoneDataSnapShot.pdf

Interesting points:

"Aggression scores in male dogs neutered at different ages compared with intact male dogs. There was a significantly higher aggression score in neutered dogs as compared to intact dogs regardless of the age at which the dogs were neutered."

"Aggression scores in female dogs spayed at different ages compared with intact female dogs. There was a highly significant increase in aggression score of dogs spayed at 12 months or earlier as compared to intact dogs."

"Fear and anxiety scores in male dogs neutered at different ages compared with intact male dogs. There was a significant increase in fear and anxiety scores in neutered dogs as compared to intact dogs regardless of the age at which the dogs were neutered."

"In addition, we measured eight individual bone lengths plus the height of 202 agility competition
dogs to determine whether gonadectomy affected bone lengths. Preliminary analysis revealed
significant differences in bone growth between the intact and neutered groups."

----

Losech

That is very interesting. Thanks for posting Brad!

WCP

very illuminating... Brad dropping mad science once again. At some point you should write a book

BradnJess

Very interesting indeed!
Those sample sizes are much much larger than they need to be in order to report statistically significant results. Would like to read more but unfortunatly my searches have been fruitless.
The only point of question is the scale of the mean scores. If it is a scale of one then the findings are significant and meaningful indeed!
Yet if the scale of the mean scores is 0 - 10 or even 0 -5 then the results, while significant, convey very little meaning. Could you point me in the direction of the entire study?

shibamistress

I just read this on the Akita listserv. It's really quite interesting, and it's making me wonder even more about neutering....Now I'm beginning to wonder if I need to do it all with Oskar...

And it's true, Brad, you should write a book!

Crispy

These findings actually don't surprise me too much. I don't know any of the science behind it, but from my personal experiences... it seems to me that the intact dogs I run into at work are always more well behaved than the neutered ones. However, the other dogs (when in a group) will always act strangely towards the intact dog and -that- is what causes problems.

I'd also like to think that most of the "general" population will neuter their dogs (no matter how experienced they are with dogs) and those who choose to keep their dogs intact (hopefully) have more experience with dogs or are prepared to know what to expect... and things like that might alter the survey a bit? (Knowledgeable person owning an intact dog for X purpose or X reason and trains/socializes their dog accordingly vs. Person who picked up a pet shop puppy because they thought it was cute and neutered because the Vet said that's what you do with dogs.)

Am I wrong in thinking that? Is there any way to tell how they chose the participants of the Questionnaire?

ayk

@Crispy, your comment about other dogs acting strangely towards an intact dog reminded me of the following blog post:

http://www.petconnection.com/blog/2011/03/27/my-dogs-testicles-are-not-why-your-dog-doesnt-listen-to-you/

During the previous round of mandatory spay/neuter legislation in California, one of the service organizations who breed their own dogs had shared that neutering at a young age was linked to fearful aggression. I think it was Canine Companions for Independence but I can’t find the original letter.

Here is an excerpt that came from the CCI letter, notably about prepubertal (< 6 months of age) sterilization:

"CCI did a study on the effects of prepubertal gonadectomy (i.e.,
sterilization) in 1990, and found significant increases in failure
rates due to both medical and behavioral reasons in those dogs that
had been sterilized early. This research has been repeated elsewhere
with the same results. Increased incidence of health problems such as
urinary incontinence, osteosarcoma, hemangiosarcoma, obesity and
orthopedic problems as well as behavioral problems such as
environmental fear and interdog aggression are strong arguments
against prepubertal sterilization for any dog, but especially those
destined for a working role."

There was also a survey by a veterinary college that showed a correlation between altering and aggression, but I think it was an owner-volunteer survey. If so, people are usually told to alter as the first step in dealing with aggression. Some behaviorists will suggest this, even knowing the linkage between altering females (who are already aggressive?) and increased aggression, because they want the aggressive dog to not have a chance at reproducing more like.

BradA1878

I think the bulk of the unaltered-dog-vs-altered-dog aggressive encounters you hear/read about may be due more to how the altered dog reacts to the unaltered dog - tho, any confrontation is usually blamed on the intact dog and not the altered dog.

IMHO the "intact = aggressive" mantra so common in the rescue/training community could be as simple as a syndrome-like socialization issue...

The average dog will come in contact with (relatively) very few unaltered adult dogs, as the majority of dogs are now desexed. If a desexed dog is only ever socialized (as a pup) with other desexed dogs, and never allowed to socialize (as a pup) with an intact adult dog, one could assume that (altered) dog, as an adult, would react differently toward an intact adult dog vs. a desexed adult dog. That difference in interaction could be the primary cause of most of the aggressive confrontations that occur between desexed and intact dogs whereby creating a pattern of symptoms analogue to a syndrome.

From my experience, our intact male dogs are much more stable and less quarrelsome than our altered male dogs.

I was sent this study by a friend, I'm working to get more details on the source and see if I can get the full study.

PS: "gonadectomy" makes me giggle.

----

the_november_rain

Kevin Behan talks about this in his interesting book. I think neutering/spaying is pushed to prevent unwanted pregnancies and bring in the money for vets. My husband has an interesting view on it, he thinks it is from feminist movement..lol!

BradA1878

The assumption that desexing dogs some how "fixes" something, without creating other issue, has always been a very strange concept to me. It seems like common since to me that one can't alter a living system w/o causing issues/changes somewhere else in the system, and those changes MUST yield some negative results somewhere in the system... But the majority of the pro-desexing studies, info, and hearsay out there would lead you to believe that there are no negatives to desexing.

And I'm not implying I'm against desexing, I just think there should be a more honest understanding of it.

----

jujee

Thanks for posting Brad. Was an interesting read. I wonder if a lot of the anxiety and fearfulness we see in a lot of shibas are caused by this. I mean heck, as a breed already most are fearful and have anxiety.

ayk

I remember when it used to be enough to spay female dogs in order to stop unwanted litters. Now, the masses want to spay *and* neuter to stop unwanted litters.

Seems to me that if there was complete honesty from the powers that be, public funds should be used to offset spay-only costs for low income families instead of spay+neuter costs. Offer greater dollar amount vouchers to cover the ever increasing spay costs or offer more spay vouchers to cover more female dogs.

shibamistress

I agree with you, Brad. I'm absolutely not against desexing dogs, and I do think it is important in terms of population control, and the average dog owner is not up to having an intact animal, most likely. But it not a universal fix (pardon the pun), and like everything else, it is something that needs to be approached with thought, because it is not the right thing for every dog (and I would say, really, that it is much better to wait til a dog is at least a year old to do it). I am concerned by how often people talk about speutering as if it will fix so many things that it just won't do (or may, in fact, lead to the opposite, as with aggression).

The behavioralist both Brad and I have worked with told me she was against neutering, as she believed it caused many more problems than it fixes....

jujee

In the city I live in, they offer a free spay/neuter. However they only do it once a month, and it takes them a few weeks for them to contact you with the information on what day to go and to give you the voucher for the free spay/neuter.

BradA1878

@shibamistress - Ah, see, Dani is awesome. )

----

WCP

@shibamistress I don't find that very surprising a behavioralist would be against it. Dogs are after all animals and the most important thing for them is procreation. Its the #1 priority role of the organism and affecting that ability must have an enormous effect on the whole system. I think that people seek an easy fix and public policy has helped it along. It goes to show how correct conventional wisdom can be

Heidi

When Tojo was a 4-month-old puppy, a golden retriever was really harassing him at the dog park, and his owner asked me if Tojo was neutered, and well, he was only 4 months old, so no, he wasn't neutered. She just glared at me and said, "Oh, that's why." I was like, seriously? At four months old? How about your dog's a prick.

It's really good that I keep reading that intact male dogs aren't difficult and terrible like many people assume, since Sosuke will be the first male dog I've kept intact.

Crispy

@ayk I really liked that blog post, but it made me depressed, too. : /

@hondru I really feel for the intact dogs that are painted as the "bad guys" at parks. Everyone looks to them like they're causing the problem when in reality, it's nearly every OTHER dog. It's almost taboo to have an intact dog as a pet now, even if you're just waiting for growing to stop.

When I first got my Mal, I wasn't actually planning on neutering him, but he got into a VERY bad fight when he was about 8 months (around the same time his cataracts started forming) with a Basenji. I feel like because London was the bigger dog and he wasn't neutered, he was painted as the bad guy. He kept getting into "scuffles" because of dogs approaching him and sizing up or approaching him and attacking him.

For nearly a year, I watched him become less and less trusting of dogs as his cataracts got worse and worse. When I finally decided to neuter him it was because a trainer I spoke to at the time encouraged it to "curb" his aggression towards other dogs, like being intact was the reason he was having trust issues. I wouldn't say it made him worse, but it certainly wasn't the cure-all people want to imply it is.

WCP

@hondru I agree, I think its a cop-out

@Crispy thats sort of a funny story considering that, from what I've seen, Basenji's tend to be quite high strung and rough so its not surprising that one of them would be in the midst of some dog park scuffles. They are quite a primitive breed like the NKs

ayk

I had neutered my male dog when he was 4 yrs old, and it did kill his desire to escape. But in hindsight, I think it was because it drastically reduced his metabolism and gave him lower energy to expend. He went through that infamous post-neuter fat phase before I brought that under control. If other males go through a similar dip in energy, maybe it's enough for owners to get a handle on things?

My dog had been around intact dogs when he was a pup and so he wasn't apt to react to them when he was neutered except for one time, on neutral territory, that he acted up towards an intact male. (I apologized to the other dog's owner for that.) A few months later, he was fine around that same dog, again on neutral territory. The only thing that I could pin down as different was that the other male had recently been bred the first time around and could have smelled different.

BradA1878

Also, the same logic could work in reverse, a dog who grew up with mostly intact dogs (at a breeders, for example) could potentially be under-socialized with fixed dogs too. Ya know?

WCP

^Has no one ever done any studies on that? I think it would confirm that theory. I imagine that neutering/spaying significantly changes the hormonal scent signature a dog gives off, enough to cause very different reactions from other dogs. I would like to see a study though to get down to the nitty gritty of it.

Edgewood

@hondru - I find that living with intact male dogs is pretty easy. I had an intact male siberian who was not neutered until after he was 4 years old (he was fine with other dogs both before and after that) and Kuma is 3 1/2 and is very good with other dogs. Easy to live with in the house.

The only issue with intact males I find is that when they start hiking their legs (~6 months of age or so?), then they might try it a few times in the house too. Kuma did try it on a plant and our stair railing before he realized that behavior was not wanted by the humans :-)

tsukitsune

From a rescue standpoint - its definitely a mantra of necessity. Hell yeah I think a majority of dog owners today should be altering their pets. Most people (and you know its true) do not really take time and consideration into account with dog ownership - easy is better. An altered dog is the solution for people who just don't care. Maybe its because I see SO many dogs in the shelter system, so many purebred dogs, that had litters or complications from being left intact with crap owners... its' simpler to just say "spay and neuter saves lives".

Behaviorally I have experience with dogs from both spectrums - I have had experience with aggressive intact dogs and aggressive neutered dogs. There are health risks and benefits to both sides, but you are right - you will probably never ever see information on the benefits of leaving a dog intact being touted by any mainstream animal advocates.

There was a foster I had a few years ago that I wanted to keep intact - Jiro the shiba. He was perfect - friendly, calm demeanor, healthy. I didn't want to change him, at all. But since he wasn't staying with me, I felt it was responsible to neuter him. I remember someone saying that all rescues should be neutered no matter what, and I do'nt believe that should be a hard and fast rule. Here is a perfect dog who will never be bred, why should he have to be altered? Because people suck, that's why.
He has developed thyroid problems in the last year... probably not related but I can't help wonder.
And I would have loved to keep my beagle/bichon mix intact. There was nothing wrong with him, nothing needed to be fixed. I would never have bred him, but I didn't want to change anything about him. But I was contractually obligated per the adoption agreement to neuter him at 6 months. I waited until 9 months.

The reality is that its probably far more healthy to keep all living things intact - as they were meant to be. Altering only "fixes" one thing - irresponsible dog ownership. Like Behan says in his Natural Dog Training book - the whole dog does not need to be "fixed", nothing is broken, they are what they are for a reason.
I wish that dogs were allowed to retain all they were born with.
But how can society cope with that resposibility?

WrylyBrindle

Just throwing out there- because I dont know much about this- but in The Social Lives of Dogs, Eliz. Marshall Thomas (an anthropologist watching dogs) ends with an essay advocating for vasectomy, NOT removal of testicles. She feels that allows a dog to be his whole self without contributing to unwanted puppies. I have never looked at this any further, but maybe some of you know more? Is this done, and if not, why not?

There are lots of factors you cant do anything about that can make a dog get blamed for stuff he didn't start- being the bigger dog, a dark or brindle dog, the one actually using communication (ie: showing teeth to a rude dog jumping in his grille gets all humans in a lather, and then...) to defuse, or just being a strong (or in-shape!), short eared, blocky-headed dog...

jujee

Hmm, that's interesting. I never heard of a vasectomy being done on a dog. I wonder if anyone else has heard of this or have more information on it.

shibamistress

Yes, I've read about it, and actually I thought someone posted about it briefly on the forum? I thought someone said it was more common in Europe, but perhaps I'm making that up? Then I came across something that said it was easier on the dog than castration, and it didn't interfere with hormones in the way castration does.

Tsukitsune, that was a good post, too, about what neutering actually "fixes."

One of the things I've started thinking about from this conversation is the whys behind increased aggression in speutered animals. We talked in another thread about aggression, and I remember the idea came up that dog/dog aggression could be "nature" ie. competition for breeding, but at that time, I remember thinking there has to be more to it, that just that. To me, this study undermines that idea entirely. Why would altered dogs be more dog aggressive if it were just a reflection of biology and competition for mates? So....is it hormonal? Why would more sex hormones (in the unaltered dogs) make them less aggressive? I would have thought it would be the opposite. I suspect we won't have answers, but I'm curious as to what people think about why early altering may lead to more aggression.

Of course, perhaps it doesn't, and perhaps its just the dogs in this study. Maybe what the study is really proving is simply that altering a dog will not change something that might be a personality/temperament issue (dog aggression).

What do you all think?

Araks

Holy Crap...I was completely clueless that a vasectomy and a neuter are different things! Sevuk is altered but still has his testicles. My cousin took him to get "fixed" at the time and when he came back with his testicles I thought that's how it was supposed to be. He had stitches in the area too. I noticed no change in behavior, so I figured he just took the change better than others. Gosh I was wrong. When we took the paperwork to get him registered for the city, they registered him as sterilized.

I feel like an idiot...

ShikokuSpirit

LOL. Sevuk is lucky to be able to have kept his package!

I haven't decided yet, if I'm ever gonna spay/neuter any of my dogs later on down the road. Is it really neccessary? Maybe not unless there is an underlining health concern. True, it's natural to just be all natural! The whole spay/neuter is one of those contraversial ordeals. I'm curious as well to learn more about the physical and behavioral causes and effects of spay/neuter.

I think it IS funny (and sad) that humans blame "being intact" as a "cause" for behavioral issues in dogs. Behavioral issues have nothing to do with how a dog is wired or the dog's training background or there lack of -snickers-. Can we use that with people to? "You Sir are being a total prick! Oh, You're still intact? That MUST be why!" LOL. I could totally have fun with this, I'm gonna start doing this to dog people now...

Edgewood

Corina - that last comment is just TOO funny!

Araks

Corina: LOL I know so many people I could use that comment on hahaha