To neuter, or not to neuter; that is the question

BradnJess

We are almost certainly going to place a deposit on a male Shikoku pup (perhaps one sired by Yomato? We get to meet him and all the others in May! soo excited), unless we have a horrible impression/experience with this breed when we visit Akashima.
That being said, we are faced with another decision. We have talked with Katja regarding the contract and initially we were sure that we wanted solely a companion dog, and as such would sign a contract agreeing that we would have him neutered. Yet after even more reading we are left wondering if that is a decision best made while the pup is still a pup.

We know that not all adult Shikoku are worthy of being bred. Yet it seems that it would be a shame to neuter the dog only to discover that he grows into an excellent example of the breed. We know there are a couple of Canadian members looking into a Shikoku breeding program in the upcoming years, and if we can contribute to the Shikoku gene pool via a worthy male we believe we would like to.
However:
Is breeding a male out of the lines at Akashima even beneficial to the breed here in NA?

At what age do you compare the dog to standards and do the medical checks to determine if he is breed-able?

At what age would you consider breeding a male Shikoku?

We have read that living with intact dogs and bitches is not fun (all previous dogs have been spayed/neutered): What are some of the trials of living with an intact male Shikoku?

We know this may seem premature, we just like to do our research and explore our options before coming to a decision as big as a) purchasing a dog and b) neutering him.

TheWalrus

As far as whether it would be beneficial to keep the pup intact, from my perspective I think it would. The Shikoku numbers are extremely low in NA, and keeping the possibility open to breed the dog in the future would make sense to me, especially the progeny of a new import like Yamato. I'd work with the breeder to discuss options, and perhaps try to work with them in their breeding program.

I'm sure Katja has an opinion on the matter. I'd love to see more pictures of Yamato as he was one of the first pups I helped send overseas.

jujee

As for being beneficial to the breed, yes. Like Shig said, Shikoku numbers are low in NA, but they are also pretty rare in their native country.

I personally would keep a pup from Yamato intact and wait to do the testing to see if my pup was healthy enough to breed. The testing is generally done around 2 years of age.

shishiinu

I would say yes keep him in tact until you are able to test him. I think every qualifed shikoku is beneficial to the presrvation of the breed. For me Riki was my first Kishu import and I ended up having him neutered after getting advice from a humane society employee when I was a teenager. I now kick my self every time I hink about it, Riki was my best hunting dog and I wish I could have had an opportunity to get one of his pups.

So that being said wait a little and rethink about it a little bit later down the line. If your plan is to neuter your dog thinking it would calm him down, think again. My experience with the Kishu is that neutered or not they still are territorial, still always want to escape out of the yard, and still like to mark their spots.

shibamistress

I can't speak to the issue of keeping him intact from the perspective of contributing to shikoku bloodlines, but I can say something about neutering. I'm pretty convinced from things I've read that it is better for the health of the dog to wait until he is an adult (so at least a year. I started a thread here somewhere about early neutering which has links, so if you're looking for more info., you might do a search for that).

My AA pup is 9 months old now, and intact. I signed a companion contract (and plus he has genetic issue that would mean he should not be bred even if I hadn't!) so I will neuter him after he is a year old. I was a little worried about living with an intact male, since I never have, but so far, it is not different that living with the dogs I neutered early. He does mark outside (though he's only recently learned how to lift his leg, and it's pretty funny to watch, because sometimes he nearly falls over trying to hike his leg up). He shows the normal amount of "aggression," meaning yes, he will growl if a dog gets in his face, and he tends to resource guard with food, but none of his behavior is different that my altered Shibas, and in fact, he is much softer and easier to deal with than either of the Shibas. He has shown a bit of mounting, but it was always in play, and only done to the female (spayed) Shiba, and in fact, I believe she taught him to do it. He hasn't even done that for awhile. My male Shiba is MUCH more difficult to deal with, and has typical "intact" male behavior, and he was neutered at 6 months!

I may just be lucky--he's a pretty sweet-tempered and soft dog--but I have had no problems with him being intact.

Calia

I say it would definitely be up to the individual pup, and how well you think you can handled an intact dog. Miyu (a Yamato pup) is sold to me on a spay/neuter contract due to her being a color that is not accepted. In the end it is probably better since she also has extra toes and rear dew claws(possibly from Yamato).

Edgewood

Well, as others have pointed out, shikoku are very rare in North America, and even in Japan. So having access to additional bloodlines could be beneficial, especially from Yamato.

As far as managing an intact male, I can only go by my n=1. My male shikoku is now 3 years old and for 2 of those years, he was an only dog (before I got my female). He is a very easy dog to live with, and I don't notice any issues with being intact. He also is very good socially with people and other dogs. Once I got my female, the only issue has been around the time she comes into heat, my male (Kuma) does get very agitated and worked up. Right now, the female is too young to breed, so that month long period is not a lot of fun. However, the 2nd heat, he was much more manageable than the during the 1st heat the female puppy had.

But, since heats only happen about every 6 months, it is really not bad. He is a very easy dog to live with and I cannot imagine that neutering him would make much difference in ease of owning him.

Health testing (eg, OFA testing) is done at 2 years old or later. Kuma had his done at just after his 2 year old birthday.

downright

My Shikoku Mason is also a Yamato pup and Miyu's sister. He was also sold to me under a spay/neuter contract. As to whether or not he "should" be left intact, I would have to default to Peggy. She would know what is best for him. Especially since she held on to him until he was 5 months, so she was in a very good position to determine whether or not he should be kept intact. She recommended getting him neutered at 9 months, which is the plan. I keep in touch with Peggy and will continue to do so. If she ever has the idea of perhaps holding out until he is older to see how he develops, then that is certainly something that we will consider and the decision we make is one that we will make together. He is a super good looking dog but he is BIG. When we picked him up, he was a good deal larger than his mom and he was getting close to Yamato's size. Peggy said Yamato is 42 pounds. Mason is already around 35. I can see him breaking 50 easily. His paws are huge and his limbs are so thick.

As for his temperament, he is a pretty mellow dog, except for his super attachment to my wife. He gets very upset when she's not around. Also, he learned not to try and mount my female Shiba after about 2 weeks of constantly trying to. She puts up a pretty good fight. But he will make an attempt at it with almost all female dogs he meets outside. And most of those females do correct him, albeit gently....perhaps because he is still a puppy. He also does this with some male dogs. The more playful and outgoing the dog, the better chance of him attempting to mount him. With that being said, he is very dominant. He has never once rolled over to any dog he has met. Even much larger and older dogs, he stands his ground. He's not intimidated at all. There's only been one time when he got a little out of control with a super nervous 8 month old lab, who was a little bit smaller than him. He saw weakness and pounced....more or less pinned the dog on the floor. No growling, no teeth baring or barking....but he put the dog on the ground very quickly.