My girl is a mutant!
So I had her over with me at a friend's house, and as she was sleeping on my lap I was feeling her paws. I noticed that not only does she have small rear dew claws, but she also has an extra dew claw on the outside of both her front paws. All these dew claws are so small that they are hidden beneath her fur. Gonna have to take some pictures when she settles down now that we are home. Was wondering if anyone has heard of this happening in the breed?
Also if I should consider having them removed if it looks like they may be a problem?
Also if I should consider having them removed if it looks like they may be a problem?
Comments
If you're going to remove it do it when she gets spayed.
It was a fluke though. I don't think it's common at all. I wouldn't worry about that. But she had them.
This first one shows the outer dewclaw of the top paw, and inner dewclaw of the bottom paw
Another of the front paw
And one of the back foot
The back one isn't a major concern for me as it is so small that the should prevent them from getting caught on anything. I'm a bit concerned about the front outer ones, as they are on the outside and dangle a bit so may have a better chance of getting caught on something.
As for having them removed... I guess you would have to really just see how she does with them and use your best judgment... Your vet may also have a helpful opinion on the matter as well... If you think they will remain small and can keep them trimmed, then leave them... But if you worry that they will get caught on something and cause her pain, then absolutely, have them removed. (I know... I am no help at all!)
Either way, she is still just absolutely beautiful. Love the B&T's!
Snf
In 1998 the Russian RKF had 41,000 Caucasian Ovcharka registered to it in Russia - just Russia (not the world). I'm sure that number has only gone up since then. With that many registered CO we are still picking through the crap. We still have crazy health issues - heart issues, cancers, spin issues, temperament issues, eye issues, knees, hips, elbows - you name it. That's in 41k dogs!
The Shikoku Ken, on the other hand, had 300 dogs registered to NIPPO last year in the WORLD. That's 300 of these dogs born last year in the WORLD. Yet here we are discussing throwing-out (culling) a line of dogs because of an extra toe?
That's a little extreme for a breed with such a small number, don't you think?
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I have a friend with a 3rd nipple? Should I tell him not to breed? lololol :-P
Snf
A quick goodle search brought up this summary within humans (bold text added by me):
"During normal embryonic development, the hand initially forms in the shape of a paddle, and then eventually splits into separate fingers. Polydactyly results when there is an error in this process and an extra finger forms after a single finger splits in two.
Research continues into further understanding why this happens. Many cases seem to occur without an apparent cause, while some may occur due to a genetic (inherited) defect. Polydactyly may also occur as a part of an underlying hereditary syndrome."
IMO, since this is really unheard of in dogs to have an extra nail on the outside of the paw, it merits care on the part of thebreeder on whether to use affected dogs or not.
Personally, I have no problem with the extra toes... Unless of course it causes pain or discomfort to the pup.
Anyway, I am sorry if my comment came off wrong.
But @Calia, Beth... Do we have a name for our little B&T girl yet?
It is up to the breeders (Peggy & Katja, since they do co-own Yamato and it could be on his side) whether or not this would affect their breeding plans. If you think about it, there are some perfectly healthy breeds that are purposely bred to have extra toes/dew claws, Islandic Sheepdog being one example. So it may not be as serious as you would think.
Also, this feature is very common in cats, and does show up quite often in feral colonies. There are even people who are breeding for it, using cats that have so many toes that it's like they have 2+ feet per leg. From my understanding, these cats are fairly healthy aside for the extra toes.
It's not like the shikoku breeders are going to focus on creating uber-polydactyl pups, but it is something to keep an eye out for.
Just to clarify, I don’t believe potential carriers or even known carriers should be axed from a gene pool. If this extra pinky is caused by the same thing as in polydactyly cats (which mostly seem to have extra thumbs?), it’s a dominant gene with incomplete penetrance. It would be easy to remove from a line after a few generations as long as people are upfront about what animals show this trait or not. ie. No secret removal of claws right at birth.
Even if this extra pinky is caused by something more genetically nefarious or recessive, there’s still some sense in judiciously using carriers if they are outcrosses and can diversity the gene pool. (Judiciously = not letting the outcross become the next popular sire.) Diversifying a gene pool can head off immune issues such as hypothyroidism and allergies which are already very well known in Shibas and Akitas.
I have no idea whether or not the siblings have extra digits, but lets say that (for this questions):
-Boy 1 has normal toe count
-Boy 2 has extra toes that are more prevalent than my girl in all 4 of the same places.
-Girl 1 (my girl) has extra toes as pictured
-Girl 2 has just the extra rear dewclaws but no "pinkies"
Now I know that due to the rarity of the breed, we would be a little lenient about faults to keep from bottle necking. So say you got the litter above, which would you cull (pet contract) and which would you use for future litters, and why?
This is a question for anyone, not just those who are current or future breeders.
Since more than one dog has developed the same "pinky", things are leaning towards an inherited condition rather than misdevelopment in the womb.
The premise I'll go by is that there are two genes in play. One that produces the rear dewclaws common to dogs, and another that bumps it up into an extra pinky. If there was a dog that had none of the common dewclaws but only the pinkies, then I could consider that second gene as independent of the first, but since there aren't any so far, I can't assume that.
Assuming all else appears normal, my opinion would be Boy 1 would be the best candidate for future litters followed by Girl 2. Boy 1 may be clear for the first gene or both genes while Girl 2 may be clear for the second gene. (I use "may" because of how incomplete penetrance works.)
Boy 2 or Girl 1 would only be used if they were kept by the breeder as a test. Most likely, the next generation out of Boy 2 or Girl 1 would produce as many or more of the same percentage of affected dogs. It'll take longer to clear up this branch of the line, which requires more space, more resources, more owners willing to own mutants, etc. Not sure if it's worth pursuing when Boy 1 and Girl 2 are available, and even the outcrossed father is around to produce a different combination.
And while I am not interested in breeding, my scientific background does make me interested in genetics...
As for this instance, I would more than likely place Boy #2 into a pet home... Girl #1 would probably also go to a pet home as well. Boy #1 seems to be clear for any extra toe genes and could be used in a breeding program provided all else is good with him. Girl #2, with just the rear dewclaws could also be used in breeding as well, if she is bred to another pup that does not have rear dew claws in his recent pedigree.
However... for thought experiment purposes only... I would actually like to know what would happen if Girl #1 is bred. Would her offspring also have extra toes? If so, how many? And if over the course of several generations, would this genetic anomaly end up having any negative or positive results... Just something to think about...