What's a Kishu like

edited November 2010 in Kishu Ken (紀州犬)
I don't really know much about the Kishu. The threads in the Kishu section seem to describe a completely different dog than I see from Shigeru and Gen's threads. So Gen, Shigeru and anyone else that wants to pitch in, what's a Kishu like? Would you recommend them for someone who doesn't want to hunt? Someone with kids? Someone with a shiba? Someone with a flamingo? Someone who's never owned a dog? (Yeah I'm making these sample questions up)

Comments

  • I'm glad you brought these questions up! I was wondering about the kishu also. I've read what I could find in the past threads here but I'd be eager to learn more. Not that I am looking to add to our pack any time soon, but that may be a possibility in a year or two down the road (in the process of buying a home with PLENTY of space for our dogs, so excited) and I'd love to learn more about the kishu (besides, I love reading about the NK in general) - whether they'd get along with a shiba, whether they do well as only dogs or with a "pack," and whether they can make good pets without being working dogs, if exercised and trained properly. Is a large yard / jogging with its owner enough for a kishu? Or do they need more?

    So I look forward to reading responses! :)
  • Well I'll throw in my piece from my experience with my Kishu's.

    Temperment: Kishus have some what the similar temperment to some of the other NKs. They are aloof, protective of their family, high prey drive (maybe more then a Shikoku), and independent thinkers. I have never had a Kishu that did not like kids, Riki and Yuki were really calm with children and just loves to be near kids. Taro is very energetic around kids and will lick my 3 years old son until he is free of any food stains (son does not like that). All the Kishus I have had will give chase to small animals (cats, dogs, birds, and I;m sure flamingos also). They have all killed nieghborhood cats so be prepared if you have cats that come into your yard, a Kishu will thinn out the population of feral cats.

    Care: I would recommend a decent size yard with dig proof and break proof fencing (I have 15 year experience in keeping a Kishu in a yard so I can help anyone out). I would say that a good walk on a daily basis will keep a Kishu content (I usually walk Taro 1-2 miles, and 10miles plus while hunting, Riki is too old now so he just walks around the yard and to the bus stop). They are very energetic so be prepared to exercise daily.

    With Other dogs: All the Kishus I have had have always been around other dogs. I noticed that if Taro is leashed and another dog comes by, he does get a little mouthy and bark but never any fights. Riki was a fighter, he has fought with other dogs in the neighborhood and once he severly hurt a loose pitbull but he also took a good hit. Yuki is quiet and will bark at other dogs but never try to fight but very protective. I think Kishus are great with other dogs if they grow up with them as a young dog although all my dogs are great with puppies. Even with the roughness of Riki, he would snuggle right up to a puppy that he just met.

    The one thing new owners need to understand is that the Kishu has lots of hunt in them, I mean they are hunting dogs. They make great pets and great house dogs but one just needs to be prepared that they are ultimately made to hunt big game, big dangerous game. My number one reason for chossing a Kishu is their ability to hunt as a fearless hunter and trun the switch off when we get home and mellow out with the other dogs and with the family. I know many big game hounds that cannot do that and since family comes first, my choice for a big game dogs is a Kishu (and one of these days I'll add a Kai). They can be at times hard to handle, they will at times do what they want to do and not listen to a single command. The way I mesh with my Kishu is I let him do what he wants to do when we are out hunting. I let them have their freedom and I just follow or lead them in the direction.

    Its almost surreal how the connection is there without doing any thing or saying any thing. Taro reads my mind on how I want him to hunt and he just uses his natural ability and do what he was born to do. He will run out for about 20 minutes or so and then come back to me and see where I'm at, I'll tell him go back out and he goes right back and comes back again to check in. I never trained him to do any thing other then sit, stay, and eat. Oh and to chase pigs. But not every Kishu is like this so you really need to be prepared for a active lifestyle with these dogs.

    If anyone in socal area want to see this, you are more then welcome to come along with me. I hope this helps a little. Let me know if there is any thing I left out. And sorry for any spelling error. English is my second language.
  • Its almost surreal how the connection is there without doing any thing or saying any thing.

    Nice description. This was my first impression of Kais as well, and still is.
  • Nice post Gen!
  • Thanks, Shishiinu! Your post answered many questions I had about Kishuken that I never found answers to in the archives.
  • Thanks for the in-depth response Gen.
  • Yes thank you! That was good insight. :)
  • There are a couple of things about Kishus that I heard a lot before we got Tomoe, but what they actually MEAN is a little different than what I had imagined.

    "Dog reactive." Hells yes, she is dog reactive. There is always a very intense reaction whenever she meets another dog. But it is always 100% positive - she simply wants to play very rough with any dog she meets. There is a little bit of a bullying streak with smaller dogs I have noticed. And other dogs, and owners, don't always care for her exuberance. But in general, its a fairly benign reactivity. Though she's pretty much the worst dog in class when I take her to obedience school. She'll be good for the first couple of weeks then she gets bored with the program and starts really trying to get the dogs organized to revolt against the oppression of the primates. The important thing is that I would not discount the idea of adding a Kishu to a pack or growing a pack. In fact I am sure I will get another dog at some point because I think she'd love to have a packmate.

    "Aloof." I read some stuff about Shibas that was like "this dog doesn't need as much attention as other breeds, they take care of themselves almost like cats." This is not the case at all, Tomoe is very involved with her family and she pays a lot of attention to what we are doing, and communicates things to us. She needs a lot of attention actually. But one thing I never really got from her is the feeling that I am her god or even the most important being in her life. In practical terms, she will disregard commands if they seem innappropriate to her. "What? You want me to come in? Daddy, stop joking like that, there is a cat in the yard next door, this is no time for me to come in!"

    We haven't had any success training her to be a non-crate dog. She gets bored and chews things, and she poops by the door. I'd really like to be able to leave her with the run of the house when there is nobody home but she is just not able to handle the resonsibility.

    The trainer at the Basic Obedience class we were going to over the summer affectionately referred to her as "the white ADHD dog." I think that's a hunting dog in a nutshell. Nerves like hot wires, using all senses to determine what's in the world that is moving and whether it is a threat or prey.

    One thing that blows a hole in the "aloof" concept as it gets explained often, is that she NEEDS walks. We have a nice big yard and the neighbors walk by on the walkpaths all the time and she spends plenty of time out there. But she makes it clear that yard time is absolutely NO substitute for leash time. She just really needs to go out into the world with her people. She is a "walk in front" kind of dog, and she sniffs everything - its like a person in a "wiki hole" when you are reading wikipedia one one topic and you get lost in a stack of links to other articles that lead you to other articles that .... etc. But she's a dog, and its poop and stuff she is getting lost in. I call it the Poopipedia. She'll dig in and refuse to budge if she has found an interesting topic on the side of the trail. However, what's kind of funny is that if you let her sniff at it for a couple of seconds, then you announce "Okay, that's enough....ONE....TWO....THREE." She usually doesn't wait until "three" before she lets it go and trots along.

    Something I have already touched on is "Stubborn." Kishus are not the most trainable dogs. This is because you are not their universe (probably part and parcel of a "primitive breed"). You are the most IMPORTANT and one of the most delightful aspects of their universe, but you are just part of it. So it takes awhile longer for them to figure out what you want them to do, and then its more like they'll take it under advisement, then immediately follow your commands. Its easy to train them to their nature, very very difficult to train them against it. So really not a lot of progress with the recall yet, every time she goes for the cat food it's like "oh, I know I am not supposed to do this but IT'S THERE." But she's fun to throw toys around with. Outside she'll fetch (sometimes she decides not to bring the ball back) and inside the house she'll play "find it." She's great in the car, generally very quiet. But most significantly, i think, she's a very sweet, good-natured dog that is not scared of anything. I've never heard her growl, ever...she does that warbly "talking" thing but she doesn't bare her teeth and I've simply never seen her display aggression or fear. I do believe that's Kishu nature, I think their reputation as scary and aggressive in Japan has to do with the theory of dog training over there.
  • You know I thought of the aloof thing and I have to agree. All my Kishus love attention except for Riki who just likes to be alone but loves attention. I got the aloof part from their independant nature. Another thing about Kishus are the fact that when I see my dogs out doing their thing, its almost like watching a wild animal.

    They have this untamed nature about them that really intrigues me, I feel like I'm watching natgeo on wolves when I'm out hunting with my dogs. Its super cool.
  • I met a few Kishu while in Japan, Baron and Momo, of course, are 2 of them but I went hunting with a few more (I have pics that I need to post). I didn't spend a huge amount of time with them, and I think the other Kishu owners covered this better than I can, but I did want to through this out there...

    The Kishu I met whined a lot.

    I also saw a good bit of stubbornness in the ones I met.

    The drive... They do have a lot of drive, but it didn't feel like the Shikoku's high-octane crazy freak out at everything drive... It felt more like pure focused intent. Like they knew exactly what they wanted, no frustration (if off-lead), just focus and momentum.

    When I walked Momo around with Shigs, she was 200% focused the whole time on finding something to kill - but not freaking out hyper, just very focused - like a laser.

    Pretty impressive dogs. I fell in love with them for sure.

    ----
  • Exactly, they are very focused although I have not had a whinney Kisu yet.
  • To say a Kishu whines is like saying Chopin doodles on the piano.
  • You havn't heard whining until you hear my lab Hana whine her head off before dinner. Its so freak'n annoying!
  • Or before getting to go hunting! lol. :-)
  • Oh yeah that too, I hink she has some Chubakka in her.
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