Lucy (AKA Goose) is a Kai Ken from a rescue?

edited September 2010 in Kai Ken (甲斐犬)
We recieved Lucy when she was 4.5 months old. We were told she was a chow/lab mix. As she grew older it became more evident that she was neither of these breeds. Nobody could really identify her breed, because apparantly the Tora are rare. She has a spotted tongue, and slanted forward ears that sit towards the side of her head. A curly tail more fluffy than the rest of her coat. She has a stance like a Tora. She is dark black with a few brown spots that are becoming more visible as she ages. She is now 1 1/2 years old, and looks remarkeably like a kai ken. Ive compared her to other similar dogs that are often mistaken as this breed, but im almost positive at this point.

Goose weighs in at about 57 lbs. Is it common for these dogs to be this big? Ive seen them on the internet, and they look roughly her size, and I read they typically weigh from 25 lbs to 55 lbs?

When we adopted her she had a sister named Lacey. We were told Lucy and Lacy were rescued from North Carolina. If anyone has any info of the where abouts of her sister please let me know.



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Ill post better pics at a later date, and more info when I think of it. Thanks!
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Comments

  • I'm almost positive you've got a Kai Ken on your hands. She's cute! :-)
  • I'm pretty certain you have a Kai as well. My male is 53 pds. but he is really thin. He's only 1 1/2 years old. If he put on a bit more muscle, I could see him getting up to 56 pds. I can't tell from her winter coat pics, but does she have a light brindle? She has the black spot on her tongue.

    Welcome to the forum!! You and Lucy Kai!

    I haven't heard of any female rescues from NC, but they may think they have a Chow Mix still. If I hear anything around the community, I'll let you know. My male gets called a Chow/Lab mix all the time. One man was trying to convince me of it one day because he too had a Chow/Lab mix. ha ha ha.
  • Really? You all think she's a kai ken? Because she looks pretty much EXACTLY like the lab/chow x I had....though for all I know, my girl was not a lab/chow cross....She had a fully blue tongue though, and her coat was a bit oily, like a lab's.

    My girl had a truly NK personality....but I think the Chow would have given her some of that too....
  • She does look like a kai Ken. Her size is the only thing that makes we question her being a Kai. 55lb is pretty big for a Kai female... But that doesn't mean she isn't a Kai.

    She's very pretty!
  • We basically ruled out chow and Lab awhile back. She is way to small to be either, and doesn't really have a physical resemblence. She stands a little under 22" at the shoulders, and she is developing brown patches as she ages. She has an insane obsession with squirels, and has succesfully caught a bird. Watching her get real close the ground, and try to sneak up on a prey is almost like watching a cat. She is a great hunter.
  • You could try doing a DNA test on her. Do one that screens for Akitas, Shibas, and Chows. PETCO has DNA tests. Not sure about other pet stores.

    She is a lovely dog.
  • I can see the Kai, but then again, I am no expert. But no matter what she is, she is beautiful! :)
  • Again, 22 inches is pretty big for a female Kai Ken.

    Well, Ahi, our Shikoku Ken female, is HUGE for a female Shikoku but I know for sure she is a Shikoku (well, I know she was produced by 2 Shikoku Ken)... So, the size thing is really not much of an indicator. You could have a Kai Ken version of an Ahi (which would be awesome, IMHO).

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  • edited September 2010
    I mean she could have something else mixed in her? Which could make her larger I suppose, but oddly enough she sure didn't get any of the other breeds traits besides size.
  • Shibamistress, Could you post a picture of your lab/chow mix? I've compared her to lab/chow mixes in the past, but the combination didn't seem to match very well. Maybe, if they are breed in such away its possible. Thanks for your time.
  • I know a couple females out on the West Coast that are that big, and they were produced by a well known breeder. That's why I didn't worry about her size. I know a male in LA that is 63 pds. same breeder. May even be littermates with the girls that are big. Is she chunky at all?

    My only thing is that the timing of it all. Who would be producing Kai pups Springtime last year in North Carolina. But you never know. Kais aren't popular. If they could only sell half the litter, then they may have dropped them off.

    Either way, I would run with it and stay a bit to learn. The forum may help you to understand some of her behavior. I'm used to my Kais. Everything they do seems "normal" to me, but my friends with dogs are always intrigued by some of the stuff they do. If I had gotten one without knowing the breed, then I might have some questions.
  • edited September 2010
    She has a muscular medium build I'd say. She stopped growing height wise, and was a lean 45 lbs. Since then she put on more than 10 lbs of muscle, and possibly some chunk. Our last vet visit said she was at a healthy weight. (Im not sure how they determine that without knowing the breed.)

    Her bahavior has always struck me as strange. However, Im relatively used to it by now. Very cat like, is that typical? She seems to be very dominant and tough, but yet gentle, sweet, and super playful. I was watching the Kai Ken videos on youtube, and she runs, moves, even plays like them. She climbs on everything. The table, the shelf, the back of the couch.....if she can climb it, she will do it. She went through a screen window after a squirel. It's been a unique experience. With many stories to tell.

    Edit: I just got off the phone with Lady that rescued her. She is trying to get more info, and the whereabouts of her sister. She said her sister is fairly close to us. So we will see if this trail leads anywhere.
  • I can remember when Koda came home that I always used to think that I had a catpuppy. Now I've gotten used to him and Maymay. Their behavior seems normal, but yes they are very catlike in a lot of ways. They like to be up high, on the back of the couch, tables, etc. Maymay especially. I don't even try to stop them unless guests are over sitting on the couch. :P

    I hope you find her sister. That would be way cool.

    Oh, and a vet will determine weight by feeling the side of the dog. You should be able to feel her ribs, but not see them. Also, she should have a curve shape to her belly. I know there's a thread on here with a picture diagram somewhere.
  • Climbing does seem to be a very common trait for Kais. I joke that mine is "part mountain goat." lol.
  • Here are some Kai vids to compare with. Ours are really playful too...

















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  • I don't have my lab/chow cross anymore, unfortunately. When I got a divorce, years ago, she stayed with my ex. She would be about 14 now. I'll try and dig up some pics of her later, but would have to scan them. She was about 40 lbs. I don't remember how tall she was. She did have the oily hair coat of a lab. Sometimes she got brown patches, esp. if she was shedding. Her tongue was violet. She was a GREAT hunter. She killed anything that moved that was in the yard.

    She didn't climb much though, and her tail didn't have much curl to it. A little, and she did sometimes carry it over her back, but it wasn't really a NK tail.

    she was super lazy, and didn't really seem to like much except killing things. She didn't really like other dogs, and was aloof with people. She didn't like rain either. She didn't retrieve. She had no lab qualities that I could see (other color, and the oiliness of her coat), but did seem fairly chow-like, from what I know of chows.

    In any case, your girl is very pretty!
  • edited September 2010
    I'm no kai expert, but who knows Lucy might be a kai ken. That will be cool if you can find the sister.

    Maybe post pictures of the sister too or tell the owner about this site..
  • There is a Kai breeder in Ohio. You may want to get in touch w/ them and find out if any Kais were sold in North Carolina that they are aware of. Their contact info:

    Pam and Dan Peterson
    Royal Kennels
    1288 Bees Run Road
    Moscow, Ohio 45153
    www.royalkennels.com
  • Pam is pretty cool. Not sure if she would know about any rogue Kai breeders, but she does do Kai rescue. She may have heard rumors.
  • edited September 2010
    Here are a few more so you can see her build, and stance. She is actually staring at the squirels in the backyard.

    She seems to have that Kai stance. Front legs together, back legs apart, and leaning forward. Ha.


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  • She looks like my Koda, although his mane is thicker. I can't put collars on him. I have seen people who try and pass Chow mixes off as Kais, and I'd have to say that this is the first that I would actually think is a Kai.
  • Looks like a Kai to me. If you had come on and never told us she was a rescue, just introduced her as your Kai no one would have questioned you.
  • I'd say Mochi looks less like a Kai than your pup... and Mochi is a Kai. If it looks like a duck and quacks likes a duck....
  • ha ha ha. Little Mochi passes for a black Shiba. :-P

    Look at even Marian's website though. Kais can look so different. I have never seen a breed that can vary so much in look/type. I wouldn't believe Maymay was all Kai if her vet papers didn't say so. I still doubt it at times. Even though I've had 2 people from Japan say she was a Kai and not Koda. lol. Koda I have real proof on!
  • hmm...now im really curious to know her story of how she ended up as a rescue. Thanks everyone for your replies!





  • Just wondering if you found anything out yet about her and her sister?
  • Methinks you have a Kai... Lucy seems to be very much like our Josephine (also a rescue... see her story in some older threads)...except for the size.. Josephine is about 42 lbs. or so. We are now more convinced than ever that we have a Kai after spending 3+ years with her. Maybe they are sisters from different litters? Anyway, enjoy... she looks like a wonderful fun doggie!
  • If there is someone in NC breeding Kai, they did not come from Royal Kennels. All of the kai puppies placed by Royal Kennels were on a spay/neuter contract.
  • Stacey that's the glitch here. What kai dogs don't come with speuter contracts? This is always the thing to think about with kai rescues. Shoot Roberta came into town and first thing checked to see that Koda was neutered. lol.

    But Marsha and Pam are really up on knowing, or being informed, when there are possible kais out there. Maybe they heard some type of rumor or something. I did hear of a rumor from a Shiba rescuer that there were kais being bred in Las Vegas. A cream one ended up being surrendered a year and a half ago. Somewhere, somehow, I think there are backyard breeders with kais. Just my thought.....
  • I know of a lady who requested to use Kona as a stud who lives in Los Vegas NV area. So, I can confirm that one. There is also a breeder, or a person looking to breed, in NY, and one in Mexico too. They both contacted me requesting stud service from Kona (which I denied).
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