If you are looking for a nice alternative and similar type dog I would look at a Jindo. Also a very nice breed of dog.
Here are two beautiful animals available for adoption
They are a nice pair from the looks of it and yes it is sad that dominance and control methodology is favored and so prevalent in working with the breed. I can only hope that someone with a positive alternative view will adopt them.
Yes, but the lineages aren't nearly as clear cut as in the Japanese breeds.
edit: I should add that there are some fine looking Jindos that do end up in shelters, and when presented to judges flown from Korea, they can be highly rated.
There was a Jindo that appeared on the Dog Whisperer Show, and I'd like to say that show me another way to take control of that level of aggression in the house. PROVE ME WRONG. Go ahead, tell me and explain. There is nothing wrong with his methods (MY OPINION)
"One example is JonBee, a Jindo who is forced to lie on his side. After a significant and dangerous struggle (during which the dog appears to have urinated), the dog finally gives up and allows himself to be rolled over. However, the dog is not relaxed. Quite the opposite. The dog exhibits numerous signs of stress, and is exhibiting a phenomenon known as learned helplessness, often referred to by trainers as "shut down." (Update: JonBee's owners did not keep him after the show. He was recently listed on a rescue website run by one of Millan's followers, but that listing has been removed.)"
The episode was aired in Season 2 which would be about 6-7 years ago. Jonbee was given up to Second Chance at Rescue which is run by a Cesar disciple. Jonbee was listed on petfinder.com, and as someone who maintained a Jindo rescue website, I was also asked to cross-post his info.
On the Dog Whisperer show's own webboard/forum, the tv owners had disclosed aggression issues with Jonbee when one of the owner's elderly mother moved in with them. That was the reason why they decided to give him up.
Yes, the Jonbee story is particularly sad, I think. But more to the point, I'm annoyed by the tone of "Prove me wrong", esp. since this isn't even a thread about Millan. We have those, and in those threads there is plenty of information from lots of people who take issue with Millan's methods, including most major vet associations in the US. If you like Millan, well, that's your choice, which I and most people on the forum disagree with, but we don't have to "prove" anything at all.
, and ayk -- thx for that, i just feel that every dog like that deserves second chances, and cesar tried--most trainers would just mention euthanasia, then actually try anything --- like death is the only fix for aggressive dogs -- and its not --
))))))))))))))))))))this might be off topic but im trying to work with shy/fearful dogs, im learning things on the way, and learning from my own, and taking advice from trainers who have worked with fearful dogs, im trying to educate myself more.
Is there any proof now on what happened to the dog? is he alive? dead? new home? or just another euthanasia statisical.
And there is no tone here - there are words - no voices, you have no idea on what im portraying, or anything. KTHX
I don't think any capable dog trainers will just recommend euthanasia as the only option to help fearful/reactive or aggressive dogs. There are many kinder, safer and more effective ways to help these dogs than what Cesar Milan shows on TV.
Milan's methods usually suppress the behavior, but it does not change the animal mental state of how they feel about their triggers. In many cases, they are not rehabilitated, but intimidated. The way he fixes the problems usually creates more problems in other areas that will rear its ugly head and it damages the trust and bond between the dog and the owner.
Whether you chose to convey it or not, your post did come off as a bit reactive. For the most part, this is a friendly forum, we all try to get along even if our opinions do clash. Just be weary, because there is no voice inflections and the like in text, it is much easier to come across as defensive.
I always hated the common assumption that any trainer but Milan would euthanize the dog and not give it a second chance, that is just not true. I have a dog who is dog reactive (and getting better), and my sister has a dog who is everything reactive and considered unpredictable to the untrained eye (due to Milan-esque training actually). We both have yet to meet a trainer or behaviorist who has told us to euthanize our dogs.
Anyways, this is not the thread to argue Milan methods. This thread is about the availability of Hokkaido and Jindos.
Also, consider moving this discussion to an on-topic thread (like the one I linked to above). It makes no sense to start up a CM discussion in a thread about Hokka breeders...
Is the Jindo a similar breed to the Hokkaido ken? Just from my personal experience I don't feel that the Jindo is similar to a Holkaido ken. This might be a great Opportunity for some one to look into importing a Holkiado ken.
Appearance-wise? If a person can't make out the difference between a typical Jindo and a typical Shiba, then they're going to have problems making out the difference between a typical Jindo and a typical Hokkaido. To my eye, the Hokkaido look like a much beefier Shiba, perfect for the harsh winters of Hokkaido.
Now there are some rather stocky/wintery-looking Jindos and some Hokkaido with larger head features (larger ears, longer snout) and shorter/sleeker coat that make it difficult to separate them out. I remember thinking that some of the Hokkaido that were brought to Colorado had bodies similar to Jindos. In the pic below, the female's head looks particularly similar to a Jindo's:
I have no clue about temperament-wise as I never met one in person.
I think the Hokkaido vocalizes more than the Jindo. More howling and talking.
Many Koreans I know (also Jindo owners) initially told me that they thought my male Shiba is a Jindo. He is taller and slender when compared to other Shiba.
I apologize if this isn't exactly on topic for this thread, but since the individual from Colorado with Hokkaido was brought up... does anyone know if he is open to people contacting him to ask about his experience with the Hokkaido?
Comments
I think there are less than 10 Hokkaido Inu in all of North America.
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Here are two beautiful animals available for adoption
http://www.petfinder.com/petdetail/16097379?recno=17
Snf
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edit: I should add that there are some fine looking Jindos that do end up in shelters, and when presented to judges flown from Korea, they can be highly rated.
That says volumes about the 'success' of his methods.
http://www.4pawsu.com/cesarfans.htm
"One example is JonBee, a Jindo who is forced to lie on his side. After a significant and dangerous struggle (during which the dog appears to have urinated), the dog finally gives up and allows himself to be rolled over. However, the dog is not relaxed. Quite the opposite. The dog exhibits numerous signs of stress, and is exhibiting a phenomenon known as learned helplessness, often referred to by trainers as "shut down." (Update: JonBee's owners did not keep him after the show. He was recently listed on a rescue website run by one of Millan's followers, but that listing has been removed.)"
Jesse
On the Dog Whisperer show's own webboard/forum, the tv owners had disclosed aggression issues with Jonbee when one of the owner's elderly mother moved in with them. That was the reason why they decided to give him up.
, and ayk -- thx for that, i just feel that every dog like that deserves second chances, and cesar tried--most trainers would just mention euthanasia, then actually try anything --- like death is the only fix for aggressive dogs
))))))))))))))))))))this might be off topic but im trying to work with shy/fearful dogs, im learning things on the way, and learning from my own, and taking advice from trainers who have worked with fearful dogs, im trying to educate myself more.
Is there any proof now on what happened to the dog? is he alive? dead? new home? or just another euthanasia statisical.
And there is no tone here - there are words - no voices, you have no idea on what im portraying, or anything. KTHX
thx for the response
I don't think any capable dog trainers will just recommend euthanasia as the only option to help fearful/reactive or aggressive dogs. There are many kinder, safer and more effective ways to help these dogs than what Cesar Milan shows on TV.
Milan's methods usually suppress the behavior, but it does not change the animal mental state of how they feel about their triggers. In many cases, they are not rehabilitated, but intimidated. The way he fixes the problems usually creates more problems in other areas that will rear its ugly head and it damages the trust and bond between the dog and the owner.
--
Whether you chose to convey it or not, your post did come off as a bit reactive. For the most part, this is a friendly forum, we all try to get along even if our opinions do clash. Just be weary, because there is no voice inflections and the like in text, it is much easier to come across as defensive.
Anyway, here's a great thread on Milan if you want to read more: http://www.nihonken.org/forum/index.php?p=/discussion/6122/what-the-experts-say-about-the-dog-whisperer-cesar-millan/p1 ~
Anyways, this is not the thread to argue Milan methods. This thread is about the availability of Hokkaido and Jindos.
Also, consider moving this discussion to an on-topic thread (like the one I linked to above). It makes no sense to start up a CM discussion in a thread about Hokka breeders...
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Now there are some rather stocky/wintery-looking Jindos and some Hokkaido with larger head features (larger ears, longer snout) and shorter/sleeker coat that make it difficult to separate them out. I remember thinking that some of the Hokkaido that were brought to Colorado had bodies similar to Jindos. In the pic below, the female's head looks particularly similar to a Jindo's:
I have no clue about temperament-wise as I never met one in person.
I think the Hokkaido vocalizes more than the Jindo. More howling and talking.