Discpline and multiple dogs...
Since a lot of you all have multiple dogs on this forum, Drew and I were wondering if anyone had some advice on how to correct 1 dog without having the other dog think that they did something wrong. Each time Kiba does something where we need to correct him in a stern voice, Shinobi shys away and puts his head down as if he did something wrong - at which point we tell Shinobi that he is ok, but then Kiba gets confused to where he doesn't know/remember that he was the one to be corrected in the first place. Our behaviorist told us that we should use their names when correcting them, even though it is said not to use a dog's name in a negative manner. However, even though we use Kiba's name when correcting him, Shinobi still looks as if he did something wrong. We definitely don't want Shinobi or Kiba to think that we are maniacs that get mad at them for no reason. Do any of you all experience this? And how do you resolve it?
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I have separate commands for my dogs for this. Both understand, "No." or the sound, "Attt" (which is a prevention). However, if they are seriously in trouble (while causing the trouble) I tell Lynx in German and Kei in Japanese. So, there will be no mix up of who is in trouble. I also give the "troublemarker" eye contact and focus my "that is so wrong and you are going to be punished for it" vibe on that dog.
You don't use their names in the actual correction part of it. You can use it to get their attention. Like saying "Hey, Kiba!" and then go on with the correction, "don't do that!" or whatever it is you say. Make sure you focus your vibe on the dog and make eye contact (when possible) to whoever is causing the trouble and just completely ignore the other dog, as if s/he doesn't exist. Hopefully, they can take the hint. And maybe it might take a while for Shinobi to get use to having another dog around. That everytime you verbalize loudly in a stern voice, doesn't mean a correction unto him, but because Kiba did something wrong.
I hope that helps.
I use the same commands for all dogs I just preface it with their name. I'm fairly certain they know what's going on. For instance, if I'm standing at the door and I want Tojo to come to the door and Loki and Rakka to stand back, I can say, "Rakka, back. Loki, back. Tojo, come," and Rakka and Loki will back up and Tojo will come forward, that way I can put Tojo on the leash and Loki and Rakka know it's not their turn to go out yet. Loki and Tojo are really good at it but Rakka is still learning the ropes. She was an only dog for the first year of her life so that may be why.
So, when I correct them, I preface it with their name. For example, "Rakka, drop it!" or "Tojo, leave it!" Like I said, though, Rakka is still a little confused by this. She's getting better, though, and I think it's mostly just getting used to being in a household with other dogs. I don't worry too much about using their name in a negative way. Obviously, the command that follows and your tone of voice communicate quite a bit to them, the name is really just to get their attention. If they need more than just a verbal correction, then I move up to either a squirt in the face or physically removing them from the situation, and occassionally a time out. Obviously, there's no mistaking who's being punish in that case and none of the dogs seem confused by that.
We do the same - preface a command w/ their names. We learned early on that we should not do this, but once you get to/past the 3 dog mark its very hard not to. All of our dogs seem to understand except the little ones - they are still learning their name.
I really think its all about the tone of your voice and doesn't have much to do with the actual phrase. For example, if any of our dogs are doing something wrong I can say "<name> carrot!" forcefully and they will stop. So if Ahi is beating up a little hard on Lao, I say "Ahi enough!" she stops - same thing happens if I say "Ahi carrot!".
Also, most of the discipline in our home is done w/ just a "look" - your dogs know your facial expressions better than any human ever could - they pay attention to you. You give them that "look" and they know what it means - no need for noise.
We obviously also use our dogs name when giving praise too - in order to keep them from fully associating their name with something negative.... but if we really need them to do something we will not use any of their names and just ask them all to do it. Like "Come here!", then at least one will run to us and that will make the others follow.
We have found that the more dogs you have the more they like to act out and do things they know they should not do. I think this is them testing your status in the pack. We have also found that raising a puppy is 100 times easier if you have several adult dogs and a puppy or 2 for them to play with. They don't get bored if they have play mates.
IMO - As long as you are not really getting mad you will not have an issue with them thinking you are manics. The key is not to get mad, just calmly ask them to stop. (easier said than done tho - right?)
All of my Akita live together, but one day, when Kitsune the chief waiting her forst litter.... She attack Vokoa. I understund Kitsune think Vokoa is a rival for her.
Since that, My Akita live in couple, and I've got Kitsune and her mother Nishi-Hime together, but that's all.
But the interaction between all is always here, and it's OK. I'll try to keep my "chief" statue! ^_^
I was taught a lot of force when I got my Mal puppy (Lynx) <--- by random people I trained with. At times I would listen to them because they've raised dogs and "know" what they are talking about. However, I found that a lot of those things DID NOT work for Lynx! I'd correct her for something as a pup and she lunge back at me with aggression. People kept telling me, "well, then you are being too soft, you need to make the corrections harder." I've gotten her to "yip" but then she'd just stare me in the face. <--- "you need to keep correcting her until she submits," they said. NOT COOL! I want my dog to respect me NOT fear me. Anyways, with her personality...it'd only provoke more aggression.
The more I got to know my puppy, the more I got to thinking. Yes, she will be a challenge. However, she is not the right kind of dog for such complusion ways. I mean, she did need to be corrected, but at the same time she really wanted to please. And I was REALLY upset when this old time trainer guy ("old-style" dog training) was teaching me his methods on "teaching" a dog behaviors...such as the sit. He took my puppy (7 months) while she was wearing her pinch collar and he yanked up on the leash. Lynx just stood there, confused. I tell him, "She doesn't understand what you are doing!" and he replies with, "she will learn." And I'm like, "If you want her to sit, then tell her to SIT, she knows the command!" <-- I taught Lynx to sit by the lure method. He was such an old grouch and to save my puppy from such abuse, I told her quietly to sit while he pulled up on the leash. And what do you know?! She sat! Oh my gosh -rolls eyes-. "You see?!" he says, "they learn." so then the bastard left us alone. Thank heavens!
(Note: I had the pinch on her because she was having pulling issues, she would not pull with the pinch. Also for her to get "use" to it, it did become a training tool later on)
Not that complusion is bad, it is great to use later on...but you don't yank it! Tis a quick "snap and release". And should be used AFTER the dog KNOWS the behaviors. The dog needs to know why s/he is being corrected. Once the dog is in the correct position, REWARD! It's the whole negative, positive, positive.
I guess this is just something one has to experience through trial and error. And we become much better owners/trainers because of it. Hopefully, no dog was "ruined" in the process!
I think it's AWESOME, that I can just glare at Lynx and she will slowly begin to slink into a down-stay. It only works when she is paying attention to me though.
Thanks everyone for your very helpful input! We have been using Shinobi and Kiba's name in conjunction with praise or correction...but now that I think about it...i don't think that we have been consistent in using the name as a preface. I think we mix it up a lot. We'll start making sure that we get the appropriate puppy's attention first, before correcting or praising.
I think Shinobi is pretty good with body language and facial expressions - he is always watching our faces to see what is going on. But i guess he gets confused when we look upset with Kiba...i think we'll have to make sure not to have any eye contact with Shinobi when Kiba is being corrected. i guess it will just take more time with Kiba, since he barely has any eye contact with us ever and really just likes to do his own thing. I think i should start practicing my "you need to stop that" look and hopefully kiba will start to notice a difference.
Thank you all so much for your advice!!! Drew and I really appreciate it!