dog whisperer has a shiba

edited August 2009 in Shiba Inu (柴犬)
hey, does anyone else notice that Cesar has a shiba inu now
I watched an episode of the dog whisperer "Marley and Piper" where the family rescued a shiba inu from japan and in the 3 month time span working with Cesar they were unable to train their shiba to a point where they felt safe. So he traded them dogs, he gave them one of his pitbulls and he took the shiba.
Doesn't that seem crazy?
but man, if he didn't take that dog i know the family would have put the dog down.

Comments

  • edited November -1
    Wow that is crazy. I did notice a dog that looked like a Shiba but it looked pretty big. Is it the one red one with black markings?
  • edited November -1
    Oh. No, I didn't notice as I don't watch his programs (I just don't watch TV, lol)...maybe seen 1 or 2 episodes. I did read one of his books though. Anyway, interesting...I know he's got Shepherds, Rotties, Pits, I think even a Mali and now...Shiba...he's adding to his collection of rescues -grins-.

    If the family couldn't train their Shiba though and it wasn't working out...sounds this was an appropriate choice...for the Shiba (and the family, of course). I hope s/he finds a good home that will understand Shibaness and have lots of patience.

    What was "wrong" with the dog?
  • edited November -1
    ya, its red with black/darker markings on its back, but the face is mainly red and white

    the dog lived as pretty much a feral dog near the airport chained to a zip line in japan and it was brought to the US by a couple of flight attendants and the family was going to foster him.

    Initially the family complained of his food aggression and that he bit once during feeding time and that it would lunge at dogs while walking on leash. They said they just felt like they were renting a room to the dog and he was not really giving anything back to them. (at this point they had the dog for 1 year)
    So Cesar worked with them and then 3 months later although the food aggression and walking on leash had gotten better, the dog started to suddenly attack their cat and other dog and full on bite them so they felt bad for their other pets and didn't feel safe anymore so they confined him to the yard.

    Cesar then offered to trade dogs and the family looked so happy and relieved they said they were in over their heads and even stated that they got the better end of the deal.
    Cesar's advice was "never get the dog you want, get the dog you need"

    Training techniques used on the dog was his famous "shh," blocking and a couple of leash jerks, other than that he never poked or alpha rolled the dog (I honestly don't think you can every alpha roll a shiba successfully, or maybe you never need to)
  • edited November -1
    The dog , Marley, was definitely a Shiba mix. He did a good job with the food issue, but I bet those people had to work on that for a while. I dont think Shibas are a dog that would roll for anything but a treat or a tummy rub :)
  • edited November -1
    He resembled a Shiba but with a hint of GSD. I was disappointed that the family did no research on the breed characterisitcs and were so unpreparred to deal with an adult rescue. At least he is in a place where he can get the training to control the biting, etc.
  • edited November -1
    I saw this episode a few weeks ago. I thought it was horrible how they "traded" him. I thought the dog whisperer was a training jesus! They tried a few things with the Shiba and then they just gave up! The people didn't even look that upset. It seemed like the wife had it in for that dog.
  • edited August 2009
    He didnt look like a full-bred Shiba to me...

    I personally think the "dog whisperer" is an idiot. I mean its good that he took the dog, but his theories about stuff are idiotic.

    He says dogs do what he does(grab their neck, shhh at them...., alpha roll them, etc.) "naturally". If dogs did that naturally, then wouldnt they actually do it naturally? Why dont Cesar's own dogs do that to an unstable dog?

    His methods are also based on wolves, not dogs, and his wolf theory is based on false information. Wolves do not alpha roll, they do not force eachother to the ground, like Cesar does. They roll on their backs voluntarily. Submissive wolves actually walk in front during travel. So the whole walking in front thing is a lie as well. Also, every little thing your dog does isnt either submissive or dominant. The "dominance theory" is a very complex system. Its not black and white(e.g. "submissive or dominant").

    So his methods are not "what the mother would do" as he puts it. His methods are negative reinforcement, punishment training. And the dogs fear Cesar Milan, and from what I've read, they usually get back to their old selves' when he leaves.
  • edited November -1
    I won't get started in Cesar. But I will say pit bulls are a 1000x easier to train than shibas.
  • edited November -1
    Awesome post, Jake. I've been reading a lot of studies done by David Mech, of wild wolves in their (mostly) natural habitat, not wolves in captivation. Fascinating stuff - that the wolf pack is more of a family unit than a ruthless dictatorship. Which makes Millan's "theories" a bunch of misinformed garbage.

    Jess - in what ways are pit bulls easier to train? How about compared to Shikoku? I have a real test of patience whenever I try to train a terrier of any type, Shibas I find are much easier for me!
  • edited August 2009
    I'm gonna go ahead and admit that I admire Cesar.
    I watched his show for a long time while I was searching/researching for Shiba Inu, and even saw a couple episodes involving Shibas. While I agree that his methods/theories aren't for everyone, including myself as I hated his book Cesar's Way, I think he does wonderful things. His overall message of confidence and leadership is really what keeps me watching (besides the doggies :) ). I FIRMLY believe in seeing what you want in your mind in order to accomplish it (much like The Secret). This is a big part of Cesar's ideaology. I also think his message of living in the moment can be life changing.
    I'm pretty sure he doesn't have much formal education in the area of dogs, aside from his own experience/research. He even says himself that he is NOT a dog trainer, but a people trainer. I actually see him as more of a human psychologist than a dog psychologist; usually explaining to people how their energy is affecting the dog, about being confident and needing your dog to trust/respect you, etc. These human aspects are what I take away from his methods, instead of the tssst-poke and "alpha-roll".
    If there's anyone on TV that has techniques I would, and have, attempted on my furbaby it's Victoria Stilwell. I love the positive reinforcement, and it seems to be the Shiba way to go.
  • edited November -1
    I too admire Cesar for his intentions.

    If you look closely at recent episodes, you will see the shiba mix still in his dog center getting along with all the other dogs and co-existing. During that episode where he found and claimed her Cesar admitted that he had never had any experience dealing with a shiba breed (albeit mix) so he was fascinated on how he would be able to do to reach the dog. So far, no update yet. But the guy exudes confidence, yet a small amount of humility in that he still wants to learn. I think when he describes his passion for what he does, he said, "Some people like to read books. Dogs are like books to me. Each one is a wealth of information that I get to enjoy reading and learning from everyday." No matter what your views are on him as a person or his idealogoies, you'd be hard-pressed to disagree with that statement.

    If you notice on some of the episodes he does with his colleague Cherry (a food agressive pit, I think was the episode), she has a pack and a team that includes Shiba owners.

    I'm not trying to defend "everything" he does. But I watch him for both the things I agree and disagree with him on...and mostly to watch the dog. Cesar is much much gentler in his episodes these days.

    Jesse
  • edited November -1
    I just saw the episode with the shiba, Marley. He definitely looks like a mix. The episodes Cesar puts out sometimes have controversy, but I feel like he does what's best for the dog. Granted, it's not good for a human to have the notion of that you can just trade dogs, but it's best for Marley to be with someone more experience in dogs. Maybe the pitbull he traded would do better in their house ya know? I'm sure being in a 2 dog 1 cat pack is better than a 20+ dog pack for certain dogs.

    I have to agree that his shows are very 'hollywood' and gives people the false impression that dogs are easy to train and so on. But I think that goes with any show on TV. It is better to do your own research than copy some dood on the tube.
  • edited November -1
    IN regards to pitties being easier than shibas, while they are called pit bull terriers, they are molassers. They behave much more like there Mastiff brethren. I laughed reading Jean Donaldsons statement about never meeting a dog that actual worked to please his owner (vs. working for pos. reinforcement or to avoid aversives) because my first thought was "she hasn't owned a pit bull". They are VERY food motivated. Learn very quickly. And trust your judgement almost absolutely. And they truly work to make you happy. They are not nearly as independent as shibas. And they would likely be perceived by most shiba lovers as even needy. But I have said it before and I will say it again, you have never been loved until you have been loved by a pit bull.

    In regards to Cesar and those who may admire him, I would invite you to read this article by Jean Donaldson (one of my absolute favorite behaviorists and the head of what is basically the Harvard of training programs)
    http://www.urbandawgs.com/divided_profession.html
  • edited November -1
    Hey Jess, thanks for the input on pitbulls. In the future I want to raise a pitbull too so this is great information. It's going to be a few years down the line though.
  • edited November -1
    Cesar's not the anti-christ or anything, but Sally Stilwell is way better!
  • edited November -1
    Who's Sally? Victoria's sister?

    Jesse
  • edited November -1
    Hmm... Brain fail.
  • edited November -1
    lmfao.

    I was going to say...she has a sister?!?!? lol ~
This discussion has been closed.