Hyper Reactivity?
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    Is that such a thing? I can't figure out how for the life of me to get Eva the Cairn Terrier to STOP barking!

    I know she must be stressed since her people are gone (she's been with me since Friday night). She's stayed with us before, and usually we have a day or two of adjustment with her (she's antsy, pacing, is reactive with our dogs) but I think either they are getting used to one another or its too hot for her to care, she's been OK with our dogs this time around. No issues whatsoever. I still can't put toys, chews, food, or treats down - she is possessive as most terriers are.

    But the BARKING.... its not always shrill, but it can be. If you aren't paying attention she gives high pitched barking. If she hears thunder she gives low gurgly barking. If she hears something outside she gives panicky barking. If she's bored/stressed/whothehellknows she does monotone continuous barking!

    I posted this in my shiba spam thread, but here is a really good example of the monotone continual barking:


    Nothing happened there, she was doing that long enough for me to walk over to the dining room, grab and turn on the camera, sit back down and focus. Then she continued. And continued. And continued.

    Every morning, as soon as we get out of bed at 6am, barking from her crate. When I'm leaving, barking from behind the baby gate. When I get home on lunch barking until I let her out. When I get home from work barking as a greeting. While I'm eating barking as begging. While we're chilling out, barking. While she's eating, barking at the window then going back to her food. When we go on a walk, barking at everything (she goes after motorcycles). While we are getting ready for bed, barking under her breath. While she plays with the shibas, gurgling and barking. While we're trying to fall asleep, barking at the thunder (even on 1mg melatonin!). While she's eating treats from a treat ball to keep her mouth busy, barking with her whole mouth INSIDE of the treat ball..

    I have her until Sunday.................... I need a solution! Or at least begin to work on one then kindly suggest her owner continue because it is MADDENING!

    I'm trying to be conscious of when we reinforce the barking, but its constant. Maybe its because I have shibas - who really do not bark - that this is so obvious and in my face annoying!!!

    I'm trying a doggy massage tonight, to see if we can calm her down in case its chronic stress or something.
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  • McYogiMcYogi
    Posts: 348
    Oooh... tough one. That's the same "alert bark" my pups give, but it's over as soon as the "threat" has passed.

    A really discouraging anecdote: when I worked at doggy daycare, we had a few dogs (2 labradoodles, to be specific, from different families) who barked INCESSANTLY. If you got them to stop yapping it was a blessed moment of silence and you literally closed your eyes and prayed for those few seconds to never end. Then it'd start again, same as before, and you'd just silently weep "Why, Bocci, whyyyy?!" Their owners didn't have much to say about it except for the cute "yeah, he is pretty talkative!" when really I wanted to strangle everyone involved with this dog's awful habit. The best solution I can offer you is to invest in a nice set of earplugs, or load up your iPod with relaxing tunes and stick it out til Sunday. I'm sure someone else has more incite into modifying his behavior.
    Photobucket
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    What about trying the techniques used for mouthing puppies. If she barks for attention, leave the room. If she barks at something, move her away from it. Reward the moment she is silent. Though these techniques probably wouldn't do much for the few days you're having her, but still it doesn't hurt to try.

    Teddy (sister's schipperke) is a major barker, so I understand what you're going through
    image
    Post edited by Calia at 2009-07-29 18:50:04
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    We've tried tiring her out enough to work with reward based training for her moments on silence, but she's SO demanding.. she follows you and barks, if you barrier her in a room she barks.

    I honestly don't know if her owner (a good friend of mine, actually!) is in denial, or doesn't deal with it. I don't want to interrupt her vacation, but the only time Eva barks when she's with her person is on walks when other dogs pass us (which sucks for the shibas who I want to meet and greet various people with various dogs) when motorcycles go by (she lunges!) and when there is rain or thunder.
    I know my friends' BF puts eva on the porch when he's there b/c he can't stand her incessant barking!
    I also know her owner uses a water spray bottle as a negative reinforcement for the behaviors listed above on our walks. She probably uses it at home to when Eva barks..
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    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • StaticNfuzzStaticNfuzz
    Posts: 1671
    yeah it is tough. At some point the dog has been reinforced for barking and it paid off. Now it is habituated. Like people with their kids owners learn to ignore the behavior even when it's bad, much to the dismay of others around them. In dogs, Terriers, poodles and the labradooles are awful for vocalizing everything going on about them. Aaah the silence of Shibas, one of the characteristics I love about the breed.

    It takes a lot of work.....the fastest way took me eight hrs straight, no lie....it was with the clicker catching the silence between barks and yowls. I would work it first in the room and then moved outside of the door, further, and further. By the end of the day I could actually leave for an extended time. This was with a very young dog. Habits that are perpetuated over time are a lot harder and take to correct.

    I would call the owner to find out how she handles it and what she suggests. You'll have a better idea what you can do or would be allowed to do.

    Snf
    Post edited by StaticNfuzz at 2009-07-29 20:07:41
  • TeamLaikaTeamLaika
    Posts: 302
    But, don't you know...STUFF HAPPENS when she barks! (Stuff would happen if she didn't bark, too, but she's never been quiet enough to figure that out!)

    You could teach her to bark on command, and then never ask. That sometimes is effective. Not sure about this having any long-term usefulness with someone else's dog!

    She sounds like a stressball!

    Have you tried a shake can? You mentioned the owner uses a water spritzer...doesn't sound like it's had much impact but she might be silent if you showed her one?

    What about acknowledging whatever it is that she's barking at (probably hard to discern at this point), saying "thank-you", and having her perform some other (hopefully silent) task for a treat? I have used this technique alot actually for the ever-vigilent Laika Trio. "The Laika rarely barks without a reason, but for this breed, the reasons are many" is one of my favorite quotes from a book I have. So, yes, you may bark at the UPS man, the guys stealing the garbage *again, the arch nemesis neighboring Chow walking by the house (to be distinguished from Bosco-Friend-Chow), the cat or squirrel you spy, etc, etc. but you may NOT bark for 17 minutes. Or even 5 minutes. Or even 1 continuous minute. When I say "thank you" and check it out, I expect SILENCE.

    Can you stick her in an x-pen or something and give her a chewie or toy? That way she might be more entertained and won't get in a tussle about protecting the item from your two?
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    Yep I'm sitting here now listening to her "pfru pfru... woof, arf... pfru" while seemingly settling into a nap.
    Never.
    Ending.

    I texted her owner, who suggested I get out a squirt bottle and as much as I don't want to... I guess I will have to.

    Ha, I'd love to find a similar book on cairns : "The Cairn mostly barks without a reason, so for this breed, the reasons are pointless to determine and mostly nonexistent". Actually a quick google search brings this "Cairn Terriers can be quite verbal. This does not mean that they are problem barkers (no...), but they will "talk", and grumble, and arf to communicate."
    Oh yes. We got that memo.

    She sleeps in her crate at night, the crate is large enough for a German Shepherd! So in it she has a towel, a bed, a water bottle and an everlasting treat ball that I filled to the brim with peanut butter + sweet potato last night. The dog was literally "arf"ing with a mouthful of the stuff at the thunder. While under the influence of melatonin (her owner's other solution).

    Off to work on speaking on command, and arming myself with the only squirt bottle I have (hello 7th Generation!)
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    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • I saw this great documentary on cairns. I think they need to be carried in a picnic basket. I give you credit for putting up with that.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    "I saw this great documentary on cairns. I think they need to be carried in a picnic basket."
    That made me LOL - louder than normal when I use the acronym.

    [edit: I spliced 6 vids together and only one uploaded... hmmm] A little barking montage for your pleasure. Taken over the course of my afternoon with Eva.
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    Post edited by tsukitsune at 2009-07-30 00:51:14
  • SangmortSangmort
    Posts: 5510
    Best of luck Jen! I sympathize highly!!!

    We had a neighbor buy the condo below us & they have...3 maltese or poodles, can't remember. But they bark at EVERYTHING. ALL THREE at the SAME TIME. When someone walks by, if I'm sitting in my ROOM & say something & the window happens to be open, they all go off! When they go outside, they start. When they're inside, they start. Someone walks up the stairs, they start. A car drives by, a bird sings, a CLOUD MOVES.

    It is aggrivating, LOUD, & Annoying & she takes them outside to use the restroom at 5.30am so THAT is what I wake up to EVERY MORNING now.

    Oh & not only do they bark, they snarl & growl at the same time! & They're NEVER leashed. I'm just WAITING for one of the neighborhood children to get too close to them. *sigh*

    So good luck, just know it will all be over come Sunday! ~
    Post edited by Sangmort at 2009-07-30 00:53:14
  • tobyshibatobyshiba
    Posts: 1058
    Dang, how the heck do you deal with that? LOL

    And wow, storms have been pretty bad this week in PA, poor dog must be scared to death! :(
    Owner of Sesame Shiba Inu (Toby) 8yrs old | Illustrator & Graphic Designer | My Website - Twitter

    image
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    Posts: 3427
    Whizzer likes to continually bark at nothing too, if that makes you feel better.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    It does! At least she's not a deeply disturbed member of the Cairn breed!
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    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • obukobuk
    Posts: 524
    I think some dogs just love to bark or are bred to bark or have been strongly encouraged to bark or a combination of that. Just wait for Sunday... but honestly, how do the owners live with it? My guess is that they've probably encouraged the barking and used the water bottle incorrectly i.e. used it in a way the dog now associates the water bottle correction with the person holding the water bottle rather than associating just the water with the constant barking.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    Posts: 3427
    Nope she's not. Carins love to bark at things. Whizzer will bark at something, Nemo joins in, Nemo stops after a reasonable amount of time. Whizzer keeps going for 20 minutes and then Nemo starts up again thinking he missed something new. It's just like Eva too, not a real intense bark, just this alarm bark letting us know that apparently something is up
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • CaliaCalia
    Posts: 3977
    That'd be funny if she took the water squirt like Tikaani would, a nice refreshing drink and toy.

    What about using the water bottle as distractions, instead of squirting the dog squirt the floor by the dog. That way, you're not hitting the dog and possibly causing damage (who knows what's in that water).
    image
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • tsukitsunetsukitsune
    Posts: 6185
    I can't bring myself to threaten with a squirt bottle, I'm just not a fan. I really think that ruined clicker training for Eva (who isn't afraid of ANYTHING!) she is petrified of the clicker sound - her tail drops and she looks to bolt. I think it sounds like the squirt bottle her owner uses.

    Anyway, Eva was my hero yesterday and her performance as Certified Therapy Dog earned her a total reprieve from my sleepless nights and crazed afternoons of arf-woof-arf-pfru-pfru. She brought real joy to a woman who hasn't much left in her 99 years of life, she made her smile and tell me about her childhood Pomeranians. It warmed my heart, Eva is such a good therapy dog, and I remembered why I love her yesterday.
    Even if she's ridiculous during thunderstorms (oh yes, had one last night, too!)

    Also, flies help. Release a fly (consciously or not) into your living room and Eva is quite occupied!

    Tenacious E:
    image
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    Post edited by tsukitsune at 2009-07-31 12:22:36
  • brandon_wbrandon_w
    Posts: 3427
    Great photo! Carin's are such bizarre little dogs. Eva seems like a real sweetheart under he apparently Carin standard issues.

    Whizzer also loves to just visit with people. He will sit in your lap for hours, if someone is sick and sleeping, he spoons with them for as long as they lay down. He actually spoons with you at night too, you can pick him up and rotate him with you if you flip over and then he just snuggles right back in.

    He also hates thunderstroms, he is nearl impossible to control during them. I feel so bad for him when it happens because he is obviously freaked out by something he cannot understand. I was once walking him when a thunderstorm started up and he started barking at all the trees we went past.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00

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