Is the show ring hurting our dogs?

edited October 2007 in General


I have often watched the different dog shows that come on Animal Planet (or whatever) and felt that, at the end of the day, it was a fancy-paints pageant. Kina like the people that dress their young children up for pageants. A lot of the breeds shown in dog shows look very different from how they originally looked. Here is an article I stumbled across while researching "dog breeding" (for curiosity purposes):


http://www.terrierman.com/rosettestoruin.htm


This guy is obviously pretty angered by the whole thing. I'm interested to hear how you guys feel about dog shows.


Do you think a breeder could breed dogs specifically for temperament or work-ability and still be respected in the breed's community?


Which would you rather buy, a dog that looks exactly like the standard or a dog that has a perfect well balanced personality for its specific job (that job could be companionship, hunting, guarding, etc.)?


 

Comments

  • edited November -1


    "Do you think a breeder could breed dogs specifically for temperament or work-ability and still be respected in the breed's community?"



    Yes, I absolutely think so. There will always be those who breed only for conformation who will hate these kinds of people, and vice versa.



    "Which would you rather buy, a dog that looks exactly like the standard or a dog that has a perfect well balanced personality for its specific job (that job could be companionship, hunting, guarding, etc.)?"



    I'd rather have the working dog, but I guess people own different dogs for different reasons. Some people have conformation-related goals in mind, and some people have work-related goals in mind. In my opinion, the whole idea behind dog breeds isn't to have dogs that look a certain way, but to have dogs that perform a certain function and reliably act a certain way. My personal goals with dog breeding (once I get into that) will be mostly work-oriented, but I'm also interested in dog shows, more as a side note.



    There was an article in Dogs in Canada a while back about how overweight dogs are being rewarded in the show ring. Kind of sad, really.




  • edited November -1
    I guess a dog’s job can be to be a show dog.
  • edited November -1


    I am slightly torn on this topic.


    I love learning about the history of breeds. And there is something amazing about looking at a breed such as a mastiff and knowing that this was a dog that fought alongside centurions. It is like watching living history.



    But then I look at how it encourages people to seek fancy designer breeds, and I get concerned. So many people are unwilling to do the footwork to find a reputable breeder, or they dislike the price that a responsible breeder often needs to charge (because they won't over breed their animals), so they go to pet stores (which we all know means puppy mill puppies).


    Plus I think it is horrible when I see dogs like English Bulldogs (which are sweet lovely animals, and cute as all get out) that have been basically mutated into these poor creatures that can't be born naturally (they typically need to be born via C-section), they typically have tremendous respiratory and digestive issues, as well as chronic eye infections, and yet a breeder can charge upwards of $2500 for these pups because they are chic. Puppy mills are churning them out like the latest trend. And these poor dogs rarely live past 8 years old. I wonder if they would be so sought after if dog shows weren't so popular.


    Or how many people have bought a shiba because they look like a fox and a teddybear made a baby, and promptly drop them off at the pound because they can't handle their energetic personalities? That is how I got mine. I would have much preferred reading about this rare primitive breed, finding that they are next to impossible to get because there are so few breeders, making a deposit and waiting. That is what I am doing for my shikoku, and I love that I couldn't just call a rescue and get one. I wish it was harder to get dogs.


    Then again I wish it was harder for people to become parents too Sealed


    But do we blame dog shows who, for the most part promote responsible breeding practices and rescue programs, for the sins of the irresponsible and cruel?


    I guess I'm not slightly torn on the topic, I'm completely torn.


    I was just given tickets to attend the AKC show in Connecticut in November. I have never been to a national dog show before. Perhaps I will have a more clearcut opinion after going. 

  • edited October 2007


    "Plus I think it is horrible when I see dogs like English Bulldogs (which are sweet lovely animals, and cute as all get out) that have been basically mutated into these poor creatures that can't be born naturally (they typically need to be born via C-section), they typically have tremendous respiratory and digestive issues, as well as chronic eye infections, and yet a breeder can charge upwards of $2500 for these pups because they are chic. Puppy mills are churning them out like the latest trend. And these poor dogs rarely live past 8 years old. I wonder if they would be so sought after if dog shows weren't so popular."


    That is really EXACTLY the point I think the guy in the article (and me to some extent) is making. The dog shows has made some of the standards for these breeds so extreme they are literally making it harder for the breeds to live. The lives of so many dogs get's shorter and shorter as they breed toward the show standards.


    ----


    "But do we blame dog shows who, for the most part promote responsible breeding practices and rescue programs, for the sins of the irresponsible and cruel?" 


    I just don't consider breeding dogs for looks above all else to be responsible breeding... I dunno tho, it's a tuff one.

  • edited November -1


    I'm all about Working-ability! Conformation shows can be fun though, but definitely the working asspect HAS to be there. I do believe in the "form follows function". The structure of the dog is indeed very important as it allows the dog to perform the task s/he was designed to perform.


    Now I'm thinking of Belgian Malinois with these examples (as they are a very versatile breed), however this application can be applied to other breeds. The idea of it anyways.


    Now, structure may differ slightly depending upon what task s/he is being bred to perform. Certain members of the same breed or lines/pedigrees may be more agile and faster then others. Some may be better trackers; extremely good at using their nose. Some may grip full and hard or maybe barely grip and are soft (gentle) - protection dogs vs. bird dogs. 


    This is how breeders can "personalize" their breeding stock a bit. Especially, if they only do the one or two venues of their choice. And no matter what, breeders are bias structurally. Some may like a certain type (shape) of nose. How much or how little space there should be between the ears. A longer or shorter body. The color and shape of the eyes. So on and so forth. And all these types can still be within in standard but still will vary from line to line. <-- although this could also just be a result from the type of work that dog does (after many generations).


    I, myself, like a well-rounded dog. There are certain things that I look for, but abilty and willingness to work are on the top of my list. Structure can be fixed later on, so long as the dog isn't majorly flawed (such as dysplasia of any sort).


    The Standard of a breed isn't really specific. Two very different types of the same breed could still fit closely to it. A lot of times it is what is currently "in fashion" or "in style" among the most popular, most producing breeders (what is commonly being shown). Also, most importantly...what the judges favor (yes, they are bias too!) The Standard can be perceived differently depending upon who is reading it. So two people can have very different perceptions of it.


     


     

  • edited November -1


    I agree with you when you say that shows changed some breeds in a way that sometimes have to be described as terrible. Look at the Bulldog, as it was mentioned.


    Now, the majority of breeds that we keep as pets aren't doing their primary function, GSD don't herd, Belgian Sheperds don't herd, Beagles don't hunt, and so on, i think you get my point. So, it's kind of hard to breed on working ability in mind.Of course there are all the working contests. Still, i agree that more breeders should have temperament in mind and not just  physical conformation. I would rather have a GSD that has good skill, than a GSD that follows all the latest trends we see in beauty shows.


     

  • edited November -1


    I thought of this article I read after reading this thread.


    *disclaimer* it is an article about pitbulls. And it is written by Diane Jessup. A very strongly opinioned woman with who I don't always agree. I only am posting this because she shows comparitive pictures of "working" dogs vs. "show" dogs.


    It is very interesting though.


    show vs. working  

  • edited January 2008


    Reminds me of the difference between the Old Bulldog type, and this new one,


    posted b/f i read the comments above... so its a bit redundant


     


     

  • edited November -1
    That article was very interesting - tho I don't think that was a pure blood husky in that pic. Most mushing dogs are mixes - so I think that was a bad example... but the other examples in that article are right on.
  • edited November -1
    The old bulldog looks so much like my girl Piglet.
  • edited November -1


    For the book:



    There are many Belgian Shepherds that are herding. Though, in actuality...they've been used as protection dogs since the beginning! <-- at least this has been documented with the Malinois, Tervuren and Groenendael. Lakenois -shrugs-, this variety doesn't seem to receive as much popularity.


    image


    This is a photo of Lynx at 7 months. Here she really isn't herding, but trying to split the stock! Grrr...I need to get some new Lynx Herding pics up.

  • edited November -1
    wow - that is cool...
Sign In or Register to comment.