Crating Issues

  • Do any of you crate your shikoku's when you are out of the house?  If so, do any of your shikoku's have a problem with being crated?

    Nikkei can not stand to be crated (except in the car).  At day care, they have had to create a separate area for him, outside, during what is suppose to be "quiet time."  At home,  my neighbors (who are not particularly geographically close for a suburban neighborhood) have started  making comments about the wailing going on when we leave him alone.  He is only crated 4 to 6 hours aweek max.  Left in the crate he makes a mess - which I think distresses him further.

    I know such distress/anxiety can not be good for him.  We are looking at getting another dog - but are having a tough time agreeing on the breed. (Boxer versus Japanese Akita or Kai).

  • Hondru_Hondru_
    Posts: 156
    Did you introduce Nikkei to the crate at a young age?  Regularly crating them from a young age helps, I think.  Also, Tojo isn't a shikoku, but this might help anyway - when we crate him, he gets a bone that he only gets when he's being crated.  We introduced him to being crated for long periods of time fairly late (which was a mistake) although he doesn't mind it anymore and doesn't cry anymore.
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224

    We had a similar issue with Ahi, she cried a lot when crated - she would also make a mess and that would really upset her. It was like the crate would stress her, make her tummy upset, she would have an accident and then be REALLY upset and freak. On the other hand she loved her crate at night and would go lay in it on her own.

    We ended up moving her from the crate to a pen - we purchased a large outdoor / indoor pen and attached it to a piece of wood cover in linoleum as a floor. That way if she has a mess it's easy to clean. This system has worked out great, it keeps her in a secure place but gives her enough space so that she can get out of her mess, if she makes one. Since we moved her into the pen she rarely has a mess.

    This is the pen we use:

    It's 48" x 48" - kinda big but works well. We have one for Hilo too!

    As for your thoughts about getting a new dog - I would go w/ an Akita... They seem to make good companions for a Shikoku... Tho a Kai Ken would be very cool too. I'm not a big fan of boxers... No reason really... They just seem to be the popular dog to get right now.

    Hope that helps!



    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • Hondru_Hondru_
    Posts: 156

    Brad - I'm surprised Ahi can't get out of that.  My plan was to build a PVC pen with vertical poles so it wasn't climbable - .   I thought shikokus could climb anything like that.  


    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224

    I think she could climb it if the walls where less flexible, but those pens actually flex a lot and I think that makes them un-climbable. We also don't leave her in there that long - at most 4 hours at a time, and at night. I think if we left for longer than 4 hours [except at night while sleeping] she could probably figure her way out... But so far it hasn't been an issue. I mean it is 4 feet tall, that's pretty tall for her.

    I looked at that link - looks like a much cheaper, more fortified way to go. I would mos def think of building something like that if we where going to keep her outside in it too.

    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224

    Side thought - A Kai ken may be a different story tho... I think they are better climbers.

    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00

  • OMG. Brad you described what happens perfectly.  I have a couple of those pens which I use fully extended to block off a couple areas in the garden.  I tried it inside once.  He moved the entire kennel from the kitchen, thru the family room, and down a hallway to the door to the garage.  I could not understand what was going on when I got home and could not open the garage door.  Attaching one to a piece of washable flooring is a great idea - it would prevent him from relocating it.  Thanx.

    The akita and kai are my preferences, but I was given first choice on Nikkei (I have wanted one since I was a kid - there was one next door to me growing up).  I may have to be considerate and go with his preference - the boxer.  Decision won't be made until we finish moving - so I have time to convince him that the other two would be better matches.

    I seem to remember reading somewhere that the kai will actually climb trees.

    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • Michelle MMichelle M
    Posts: 593

    Ronan cries in his crate, but not non-stop. At least anymore. His crate is the second largest available. It was Jack's crate when he was young.

    It's also been awhile since he had an accident in his crate. I think three months ago, and it was pee.

    My vote is for the Akita  Laughing

    Post edited by Michelle M at 2007-07-05 09:52:53
  • BradA1878BradA1878
    Posts: 12224

    I have read that Kai Ken can climb trees too.

    Ahi is by far, when it come to her own waste, the most fastidious of our pack. She genuinely hates her poo and pee. She goes as far out of her way as possible to use the restroom and she totally freaks out when she gets it on her.

    That is really funny that Nikkei pulled the whole pen through the hall. Ahi had done the same before we added the wood.

    We attached the pen to a 4'x4' piece of wood w/ linoleum covering it. We used little hooks that I screwed into the wood [through the linoleum] and plastic ties to keep it attached to the pen. I did it this way so that If I have to I can easily take it apart and put it back together. If I was building one again, and had the time, I would make the wood at the bottom a bit bigger like 4' 1" x 4' 1" because right now the wood is very close to the same size as the pen.


    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • kwyldkwyld
    Posts: 590


       I would try crating Nikkei more when you are at home with him in the house so he gets used to the fact that the crate doesn't always signify you leaving him.  You could try teaching him to get in his crate and either sit or lay down and then feed him in it.  Using a clicker as soon as steps into the crate would be good too.  When I leave my house, Kohji likes to destroy things(separation anxiety) so he needs to be crated, and he used to scream bloody murder for the first little bit after we left.  He does it at work if I walk into the room I keep him kenneled in then walk back out(I work at a vet).  Try getting a Busy Buddy toy or Kong and stuff it with his breakfast or dinner and leave that in his crate with him when you leave, and also try it when you are at home too.  Kohji used to get stress diahrrea in the crate sometimes too, and it is MUCH better to have some type of bed or mat that can soak up liquids and be easily cleaned.  I know I'm rambling but also when you get home, don't make a big deal about seeing him, just walk over and let him out of his crate and ignore him for a little bit, so next time he won't be anticipating a huge welcoming.  I work with a doctor of behavioral medicine and those are a few things she advises people when they come in with a dog with separation anxiety.  We saw a German Shorthaired Pointer come in once that a family had crated in their garage, and the dog had tried to get out of the crate.  She got her back legs stuck under the front door part, and the family came home to find her halfway out of the crate with two broken back legs!! :(

      Oh, and by the way, you should get the Kai!!!    

    Kohji - Kai Ken
    Taj - Shiba Inu
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • ddowdemersddowdemers
    Posts: 681


    We are  fortunate enough to have a fenced patio with a good sized planting area where Tenji will stay when I hve to leave him for more than a couple of hours.  I always leave a Kong filled with good stuff and usually a fairly large raw beef or buffalo marrow bone.  He will immediately bury the bone and then dig up an older, disgusting one.  He is very good on the patio and only barks when someone comes to the house.   If I have to crate him he will whine and bark for about ten minutes and then settle down.  I have a Kong in his crate as well.  He does NOT like his downstairs crate but he does like his upstairs sleeping crate.  He messed in his downstairs (larger)  crate a couple of times when he was much younger but has been doody free since.

    Boxer would be my very last choice of any dog.  That is one breed that Tenji does not like at all.

    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00

  • Thanks everyone for your suggestiions. 


    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00
  • ShikokuSpiritShikokuSpirit
    Posts: 2228

    When you are at home watching him, why don't you just leave the crate door open? Toss some treats in there and let him go in and out at will. Start feeding him dinner in his crate, so that he can associate it as a "good" thing.

    With my Malinois (I know my Shikoku will be trained to do the same), during feeding time...there are two places she'll automatically run to and wait for her dinner. Those are either her crate or kennel run and she'll wait there until I bring her dinner.

    The crate is a "safe" place.

     Not so much now, but when she was younger she'd even sometimes take a bone into her "den" (crate) and contently chew on it. Although now she prefers my bed (lol)!

    Which is also another thing you can do, when you get him use to the idea of a crate, toss a beef bone for him to chew on or kong filled with "good stuff" like Tenji has.

    When you are still home you can finally shut the crate door and leave him there for 15 minutes or so. Then take him out and maybe do something fun. And then extend the time to 1 hour, 2 hours, 3 hours, etc. When you first walk back in the room though, yes...ignore him for a few minutes and then let him out and go play!

    I don't tolerate barking at all (they get ignored). So my dogs (inboard-training client dogs included) are always quiet and they are rewarded for being so well behaved.

    Oh and make sure he is gone potty beforehand (pee...and poop too, if possible - if you are on a schedule, you CAN time this). I know some people just feed (meals, not treats or chews, their breakfast or dinner) their dogs in the crate and leave them for the night or morning. I can't stand that! I feed my dog and then about an hour later I let her go outside so she can potty (puppies - under 7 months - are let out immediately! 7 months to 1 year - half hour). Then bring her back in for the night or morning (on days I work) and sleep/rest comfortably in the crate without having to worry about using "the bathroom".

    Good Luck!

    Oh and....don't get a Boxer! -smiles- Get a Belgian instead =(^-~)=. Ya know, like a Malinois, Tervuren or Groenendael...

    ...or an Akita or Kai ~~> =(^-^)= <~~ is absolutely no use in helping with the "another dog breed" decision.




    Areyarisu Shikoku Kenimage

    Kotomi | Maika | Zoey | Asra | Ranala

    Other Canine Members of The Airreyalis Crew: Zander (Alaskan Klee Kai) | Saphira (Belgian Groenendael) | Izanaiya, Sanosuke & Okiana (Yakutian Laika)
    Post edited by Unknown User at -0001-11-30 00:00:00

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