Shikoku Ken

Some over due pics from my visit at Peggy's (O'ikon)

Calia — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 23:18:10 -0400

These are pics I took when we visited Peggy's place on our way back from the MADshiba picnic in August. She was a great hostess, allowing us to walk our pups around her property after spending 8 hours in the car.

I finally got the oomph to ask her if I was allowed to post these, so here they are:

The Ahi Thread

brada1878 — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:53:00 -0500

Since I always have random updates about Ahi and her situation I figured I'd start an "Ahi" thread...

First update - Ahi finally has her Fancy Pants back. She has been wearing them and so has gotten more freedom. We have a trip scheduled for March to get her checked out to see if she has recovered from her torn rotator cuff. She will be wearing her fancy pants and have restricted activity till we have the results from that checkup.

Here are some recent videos of her visiting her buddies and her mommy...

Ahi vs Mom:

Ahi vs Pack:

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Miko pictures

JessicaRabbit — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 20:07:34 -0400

It's been a while since I posted any Miko pictures

Those Curious Eyes...

ShikokuSpirit — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 08:46:57 -0400

I remember Shoushuu's eyes were dark when he was a puppy. His eyes aren't that dark at all right now...they're a medium dark brown. I can SEE him :) .

Kotomi's eyes are REALLY dark...they are a dark dark brown. They look almost black. I've had a very difficult time seeing her eyes...the pupil. I'd have to stare long and hard to "find" them. Then just tonight I noticed that I could actually SEE her eyes at night in artifical light. So it kinda seems like her eyes are lighting up a bit. They'll still be dark, but I can kinda see them now.

So, I'm wondering...all you Shiku owners out there. Were your pup's eyes very dark and then just lighten up a little bit with age?

Curious...

Happy Birthday Kotomi & Shoushuu!

ShikokuSpirit — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:37:03 -0400

Let the Celebrations begin! :)

It's the Shiku's birthday...

Kotomi (September 17th, 2008) just reached 1 year of age yesterday!

and

Shoushuu (September 18th, 2007) turns 2 years of age today!

I will edit and update the thread with spam later. I just didn't want to neglect to make this special annoucement.

Happy Birthday!

Kochiken genetic problems, Japanese-based data

yukidomari — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:50:36 -0400

So I did just a quick search of problems for Kochiken on Japanese sites today, and this is what I came up with so far. Mind you, this is public data, and not through talking with a breeder. We have found no serious breeders in Japan yet that have websites and instead they request a phone call. Being 12 hours ahead of the U.S. East Coast, we obviously cannot call at 3pm Eastern time.. so we will call later.

Anyway, this is the preliminary data on problems in Shikokuken, via the Shikoku enthusiast group/websites based in Japan..

- Shikoku ken should be fed at least partially with high nutrient fish, if not a fish based diet. Part of this reason for this is that Shikoku in their history had fish as a large, daily part of their diet and thus do not have a need to store DHA very well. Not having a good source of DHA is said to contribute to early onset dementia/Alzheimer-like behavior in later years in Shikokuken. Which, by the way, is listed as having a 13-15 year life expectancy versus the US one (which is lower, I think, the last time I checked).

- Shikoku have a tendency for skin problems.

Not much more was said about the skin issue, and we have not yet searched for published data on any of the above mentioned problems. They may be colloquial in nature, but its worth feeding at least some fish since it's not a great inconvenience for most. If your dog is on Orijen 6fish or Acana Pacifica or anything like that, that should be fine.

I will update more, as I find out more...

Happy Birthday Ahi!

brada1878 — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:00:51 -0400

Ahi turns 3 years old today! :o)

Baby Ahi...

*Me and Katja (Akashima) with Ahi. Looks at my face, I had no idea what we were getting into.

*Leaving Akashima, 5 minutes after this picture she vomited all over my dad's G.

*On the trip home from Akashima (8 weeks old)

*Just got home in Atlanta

"socialization" LOL

She can even be sweet sometimes!

*Jen's sister.

Pics from her birthday hike yesterday...

*It's hard to take her picture in the woods, she blends really well.

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I give up. YES she IS a wolf/fox/coyote.

JessicaRabbit — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:54:14 -0400

Jay and I have given up.

When people ask if Miko is a wolf or a fox, we just say yes.

For some reason, that ends all questions and we can just keep walking.

Obviously when we have someone legitimately inquiring ,we will talk about her and the Shikoku breed, but the people who stop on the road or the college kids who should questions we have given up and let them think she is the tiniest wolf in the world.

Hair inbetween blowing coat?

Araks — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 06:53:49 -0400

I've read many things about shikoku ken and shibas blowing coat, but I was just curious, how much hair is left inbetween the time that they blow coat? We just have to deal with annoying little black sharp hairs left all year round by our Sevook, but I want to know how it is with a shikoku. It would be great if you guys could give some input.

Happy Birthday Loa!

brada1878 — Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:17:16 -0400

Happy Birthday Loa!

She turns 2 today (or was it yesterday?)! She's all grown up now. :oT

then...

and now...

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Shikoku size

tini — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:17:23 -0400

I was wondering how tall are your adult Shikokus? Kekko is now 6 months and 50 cm tall. In the standard it says for a male 52 cm is a perfect size. On the pictures thou other Shikokus seem taller....or is it just the pictures??

Shikoku books

Ippus — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:38:20 -0400

Can anyone recommend some good general books about Shikoku as a breed (in English)? Most dogapedias only give them a brief mention, and even some of the ones about Japanese breeds seem to give them short shrift.

CRDFS Show, August Long Weekend - Featuring Shikoku!

Nekopan — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:32:27 -0400

As mentioned in the Ishi thread I attended a dog show on the weekend where I met Katja and a couple of her dogs - Kuma, Aiko, and her new import Shiba, Kuro. Katja did very well in the show this weekend. On the first day Kuro took Best in Group, and Aiko got second in Group. The second day Kuro got second in Group and Aiko got fourth in Group. I didn't attend the third day but I'm sure they did just as well.

Now on to the spam!

If you're interested in seeing the few other pictures I took at the show, they're all up on my Flickr account. Just please excuse my poor photography skills!

Ishi is looking for a new home

Nekopan — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 21:16:08 -0400

I finally met Katja today (which was excellent, definitely know that the Shikoku is the breed for me!) and had a good chat, but found out some saddening news. Ishi has been back with her for about three weeks. She says he is extremely dog reactive, especially with males, but will tolerate some females. Katja told me with a firm "heel" on walks, he will ignore other dogs and not try to go after them.

Ishi needs an owner that is confident, assertive, and can deal with dog reactiveness. Katja seems really disappointed that his last family did not work out, so I would recommend a potential owner make sure they are 100% committed to taking on this sort of dog before they contact her.

How do I get this puppy home??

Two Socks — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 13:40:50 -0400

I was hoping you guys could offer me some advise on the best (least stressful) way to get my newest pack member home., from B.C. to Wi. I know many of you have driven long distances with a puppy and some have had your puppy flown in. Map quest shows travel time to be 33 hrs.(that's a long time for a new puppy and a weary driver) What would you do?

It's always Rakka!

hondru — Thu, 30 Jul 2009 04:27:05 -0400

Rakka's at the vet overnight getting fluids. She got bitten by some kind of critter (I'm thinking muskrat because she was by the water, but I didn't see the animal). The bite is pretty small, but it got right on the major artery of the leg, so she bled like crazy. I was actually surprised to see the wound was so tiny when the vet got it cleaned up enough that I could see because she seriously had blood on all four legs, belly, face... everywhere. Now she's stitched up, has antibiotics, and the iv and I should be able to get her tomorrow. Her gums were really pale, which means she lost quite a bit of blood. Poor Rakka. When I got there, the vet said to her, "Remember me? I hope not."

I learned two lessons:

1) Vet told me that bites (especially wild animal bites) need antibiotics even if they don't bleed that much. I hadn't thought of that.

2) For the cost of this vet trip, I could've gotten a portable electric fence system, which I was putting off buying because I couldn't decide which one to get. I've gotten pretty lax because I'm always with them and there's no traffic, but being with them didn't stop the animal this time, or the porcupine the last time. I guess two encounters in two years isn't bad, but I'm thinking that not letting them out so much would reduce the odds of a run-in. Run-ins are more common at dawn or dusk, which both of Rakka's wildlife encounters were, so I could keep them fenced in most of the time and only take them outside during the day.

I feel like a real dunce.

Raging Hormones...

ShikokuSpirit — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 14:12:19 -0400

So yesterday while I was at work...
...apparently Shoushuu WANTED inside the house. George had just "checked up" on him and left. Then Mr. Shoushuu decided to go through the CLOSED glass window -sighs-. About 20 minutes later George found a loose dog running amuck unsupervised in the house with doggie toys scattered across the floor.

Then THIS MORNING, I threw him out on a tie out. I was sitting here on my laptop contently eating my cereal and then I heard the shatter of glass! He STILL was able to get through the not so well mended broken glass window and just broke it even more.

The lucky jerk was able to go through without injury both times. That's a relief.

I just realized "why" he would plunge through a glass window. As soon as I unclipped him from the tie out...ZIP...he's ON TOP of Kotomi's crate. That explains it! As Miss Kotomi is currently about 2 and half weeks into her heat cycle. So he REALLY wanted to get to her and nothing was gonna keep him from her. Luckually, he has yet to figure out how to open wire crates -smiles-.

So, yeah...I need a new window.

Meanwhile we plan on boarding up both sides with (thick) WOOD <--- at least this will take him awhile to tear through, if he's determined enough, lol.

Miko and Ruby with possibly the most obnoxious squeaky ball ever.

JessicaRabbit — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:07:35 -0400

I'm almost afraid to bring this up...

Ippus — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:57:15 -0400

because I've never ever seen it mentioned directly. I'm afraid it might be somehow taboo or gauche, but I'm afraid I really have to ask. I would absolutely LOVE to bring a Shikoku into my family, but I'm not a rich man. I understand all about the cost of care and all, but I'd like to get a rough idea how much I'd have to pay for a Shikoku pup and papers.

My wife really doesn't like the idea of paying for a purebred, when there are so many nice rescues to be had, and I partly agree (although she just recently had a couple of Brittany Spaniels, which makes her attitude just a teensy bit hypocritical)... but I'd really like to see a number, just so I know if it really is a pipe dream to think of adopting a Shikoku.

Would some of you mind terribly telling me what you paid or would expect to pay?

Wish Rakka Luck

hondru — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 23:01:16 -0400

Rakka's had a rough couple of days. The lump on her neck came back, plus she started scratching her face and snout like crazy, so we took her to the vet.

Vet reiterated that the lump is most likely harmless, but should be removed just in case. We took her in when it first showed up, and the vet shaved her neck and took a sample and decided it was benign, not infected, so most likely just a random cyst, especially since she's not sick and it doesn't hurt or bother her. He said it might be a wonky saliva gland, and today he noticed on her record that she got a face full of porcupine quills about a year ago, so there's a slight chance it's a quill that worked it's way into her neck. He says that quills don't usually cause much problem, even if they do get under the skin, though. Either way, it's close to her throat and jugular, and you never know what a growth might do if you leave it alone, so now that we're sure it's not just going away on it's own, we're having it removed. I mean, I would just feel really horrible if I left it and a few years down the line, it restricted blood flow to her brain and gave her a stroke or turned out to be cancer. Plus, it's ugly :-P.

He also said there's no way to know why she's scratching her face until they've done a biopsy. So, surgery to remove the lump is scheduled for Thursday, and they'll take a biopsy from her skin then, since she wasn't cooperating today, so they want to do while she's already knocked out.

The weird thing about her scratching is that she's not acting sick, it's only on her face, and none of the other dogs are exhibiting symptoms, which rules out a lot of likely explanations, like parasites or food allergies. Seasonal allergies are likely, but she didn't have a problem last year, or at any time before now. She also didn't respond to antihistamines. At any rate, she is (to her dismay) wearing a cone. Poor pup. She looks pretty rough, with her lump, her face all scratched up, the cone, and the mopey expression. Her face is a little puffy, too, but that might just be because she scratched it all to heck.

Wish us luck.

Social level and gender

yukidomari — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 19:22:33 -0400

So in my continuing research, I would like to know if anyone has any suggestions on the following questions..

Are Kochiken sociable? To the extent that they will play with at least family. I don't need a dog who loves every person on the street, but I would like one that likes the pack and the family and is willing to play, and not just tolerate, the other dogs. Lantis only tolerates Lilith and never tries to play with her. In part this is because Lilith is very characteristically unbowed when it comes to dominance.. and Lantis dislikes that, since he is the oldest dog. Lilith would rather not play with him and not have to be submissive, then play with him and be submissive unlike Luna.

Is there a suggested gender? We have 2 fixed bitches and one fixed male (the two younger are female). They seem to get along fine right now, but some have suggested that two female spitze tend not to get along well. Seeing as how Kochiken will be significantly larger than our female Spitz when grown, I don't want them to fight or otherwise not get along. I am fine with either gender, but my boyfriend has a thing for the girl dogs... he'd much prefer another female.

Or would it not matter if they are brought up together from puppyhood?

Thanks again for all the input! I really appreciate it.

Suitable dwelling, etc

yukidomari — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:44:14 -0400

Hi!

I have been researching Shikokuken for a while now, but only from reading. I never have yet talked to any owners of Shikokuken (Which I like to call Kochi-ken because it's an alternative name and also shorter!). For anyone who owns Kochiken, can you please tell me about a few basic things?

1) What do you think is a suitable living space for a Kochiken? I don't think we will have a house with a lawn for a long long time. In Japan, we live in Osaka but lawns are hard to come by and I think that we will probably be apartment dwellers for a long time. I don't think this should really be a problem because we have owned and fostered all sorts of dogs with all different energy levels and sizes and have found that with proper exercise a yard really isn't needed even for high-energy, large dogs.

2) What do they shed like? Being a spitz, I assume the answer is "a lot". But Lilith (our other spitz-breed) didn't really shed as much as I thought she would have (at least, not as much as 2 German Shepherd Dogs I used to know). It was a lot but not to the point where I'd have to furminate her everyday.

3) How heavy is the average kochiken? A lot of places have restrictions here on the weight of dogs. Breed standards give height at withers and rarely specify a weight.

4) What are common health problems to Kochiken? Since they are so rare, I have yet to find data on health problems they may have. I assume the regulars such as Luxating Patella and eye exams like PRA or CERF testing should be done, but what about other, more specific problems? Do you recommend most breeding Kochiken have OFAs for hips? What about very specific diseases like von Willebrand's disease or Factor VII deficiency or other diseases?

Sorry for all the questions but we are on a hunt for a good dog and an even better breeder. We are not afraid to travel for a dog either in the states or in Japan. I really appreciate any and all input!

Shikoku Dog Register Application

brada1878 — Thu, 03 May 2007 13:32:18 -0400

I just moved all this stuff into one thread...

I'm interested to hear if you guys think this application is worth developing, I don't have a great deal of time to dedicate to it, but if we all feel it's worth it I will build it.

Shikoku, Other Dogs & Other Animals

ShikokuSpirit — Sat, 06 Jun 2009 18:02:50 -0400

So...I went to the place that I fear most - the dog park! I've had some great times at those and some traumatizing ones.

Anyhow...I'm now super aware on evaluating each dog that comes in...before that dog comes in.

I normally just go with my dogs when nobody else is there. Yesterday, I went with just the Shikoku, my friend and her Chihuahua mix.

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A very pretty brindle Dane pup came in. I wish I took a photo but atlas...I did not. Anyway...

...Shoushuu's been really good with other dogs growing up. However, you know things can change with age and he's slowing maturing into a young man...

...he was VERY interested in this Dane pup. She was HUGH! So, I can understand Shoushuu being just a bit alarmed. He relaxed some but was very persistent in following her around the park. The Dane pup COMPLETELY ignored him, as if he wasn't there and went about her business.

Watching him with her...he was chasing, growling and gave a few high pitched barks in her face. Very, very persistent little bastard, lol. I kept a good watch on him though to make sure he didn't get out of line. And he really didn't. He was good with no jumping up on her or nipping at her. He was just very "talkative".

He did leave her alone for a little bit to check out his surroundings. Then she'd pass by or bump into him or he into her and he'd be back to his "stance" with her.

I did body block him a few times and then finally, after he gave a few more high pitch barks, I put him up in the truck. The owner was good about understanding doggie behavior, but seemed pretty annoyed with Shoushuu's attitude.

I was too busy watching all of this to try and record it. To me it almost seemed that the Dane pup triggered the prey drive within him. And also, I'll admitt he can be kind of an @ss. So maybe he though of her as a potiental threat (because of her size)???

Really...Shoushuu made me think of Ahi and Luytiy. Perhaps you (Brad) can shed some more insight on this? Thanks.

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So, I'm thinking Shoushuu and large dogs are not his comfort zone. However, he is really good with dogs his size or smaller. I've been anticipating the day when he may not be so great around other dogs (at least male dogs). Ya know, once manhood kicks in. However, I've come to the conclusion that he'll always be fine with dogs and puppies who are smaller then him.

He seems very patience and passive with them. It just seems that larger dogs may trigger some reactiveness and possible prey drive.

I think this "logic" applies to him with all animals and is not limited to just dogs. I'm almost 100% certain that if I were to get a rabbit. He'd play nicely and be friends with the cute little bunny. I'm forseeing problems though with him when I get my horse.

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Kotomi has EXCELLENT pack drive but so did Shoushuu as a puppy. Kotomi seems less reactive then him though. I think she'll be okay with dogs of any size and any kind of animal (except flies, she likes to eat them, lol).

The only kind of reactivity I've seen from her has ONLY been towards Shoushuu. She respects Lynx but she does NOT respect Shoushuu. Hump...serves him right, lol.

Rabbit Coursing?

hondru — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:34:56 -0500

Has anyone ever thought about rabbit coursing with their shikoku? I see so many rabbits around, and Rakka chases them, but she never seems to notice them in time to catch them. Plus, when we're off-leash where there are rabbits, I'm always distracting her with tennis balls and playing. Maybe if I trained her to track a bit and we set out with the intent of tracking and chasing a rabbit, she could catch one.

I know there's some controversy over the humaneness of rabbit coursing, but I think that by buying dog food containing meat, I'm supporting some kind of animal being killed somewhere, I just don't see it. Aside from that, any rabbit Rakka kills would have been eaten by something, somewhere eventually, probably a coyote, which isn't that much different. Plus, rabbit is super healthy, wild, organic, enviro-friendly food if Rakka can catch some to feed herself and maybe the other pups, then I figure it's a good thing.

What do you guys think? I know this is a bit controversial, so let's just all remember to keep our nice forum voices. :-) I just want to have an open discussion about the topic.

ETA: feel free to talk about hunting any other animal, as well.

Shikoku hunters?

animaladdict — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:30:22 -0400

So I have read that Shikoku's were originally bred to hunt wild boar and deer. My questions are, would any of you guys consider hunting with your dogs? Would you consider it too dangerous? Do you think the dogs would enjoy it? And what standards would need to be met for a hunting dog? Thanks guys, just curious, not really planning on going hunting any time soon:)

Other Imports We Don't Know About?

ShikokuSpirit — Mon, 18 May 2009 23:36:30 -0400

Well, there's Rick in San Diego with the 13 year old Koji. I believe he was stationed in Japan and brought his Shikoku back with him (Dorothy should know).

Well, a couple of weeks ago...
...I helped my friend with her dog toys & supply business at a dog hiking event one of the local national parks was hosting. While I was fetching some lunch for us, I ended up started a conversation with a guy whose family offers a mobile dog grooming service.
He asked me what kind of dogs I had - I told him Malinois & Shikoku. Without actually seeing my Shikoku, he says,
"Oh yeah, our neighbor has one".
I'm like "Really? Are you sure it's not Shiba Inu?"
He replies, "Nope, it's a Shikoku."
"Where did he get the dog from?" I ask.

Apparently, his neighbor's friend was stationed in Japan and brought the dog back with him. It sounded very familar to Rick's story with Koji. I asked where he was located, they say in Orange County. Unfortunely he didn't have any photos nor did I follow him home to check out his neighbor's dog, lol (I should of have though afterwards -smiles-).

A lot of how the guy described his neighbor's dog...well...it sounds like it might very well indeed be a Shikoku. Who knew. I can't verify anything but...yeah...how many other Shikoku were imported to the California? Other States? Or other countries? I'm still kinda skeptical and yet it is still very possible.

So...interesting stuff.

On a "semi-off (breed) topic", I met with a lady who moved into my neighborhood a couple of months or so ago. She was walking her Shiba Inu. Cute little dog. She told me her son imported the dog directly from Japan. I know we have A LOT of Shiba imports to California, but it was still fun to come across her and her dog.

I think this is the best photo I have taken to date...

brada1878 — Fri, 01 May 2009 14:39:43 -0400

And it's of our Loa bear...

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Kuma (shikoku) spam

Edgewood — Fri, 08 May 2009 12:56:03 -0400

Loves to play fetch with frisbees

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Shikoku puppy temperament

Janet — Sat, 09 May 2009 02:14:19 -0400

What was your Shikoku like when they were a puppy, specifically their temperament? How has it changed now that they are adults?